First new car in years - what will they try to sell me?

Thanks for all the very good input. My inclination would be to buy a
used car but I am doing this for my wife who will appreciate the new
car more than saving money. - she is frugal in many ways but says for
once in her life she would like a new car, and we ain't getting any
younger. She's been driving a 91 Accord for the last 14 years.
Still drives great but the electronics are doing funky things and it's
got some oil and other fluid leaks. -- I drive a 94 Chevy Astro
6cyl and I'm happy with it.

The listed price difference between a new Civic Hybrid and regular
Civic Sedan Lx is about $5000. (I'm assuming the Hybrid is fitted
out like the LX). There is a tax credit of $2100 for the Hybrid so
the difference becomes $3K. Since she drives about $12K a year it's
going to take quite a while to make the Hybrid pay for itself and
that's not taking into account the extra hit when you have to replace
the batteries. So I'm aware that the new hybrid isn't the smartest
move economically.

Just went to the local dealer and asked a lot of questions got some
answers:

There are a few differences between the Hybrid and the Civic LX. The
Hybrid has electric steering, brake assist, auto climate control, more
speakers in the sound system. exterior temp sensor, spoiler and turn
signals on the side mirrors. The rear seat can not fold down to make
the rear trunk bigger.

The factory warranty 3 yr 36K bumper to bumper, 5yr 60K power train,
15yer 150K on IMA (electric stuff of the hybrid).

Replacing a battery module is $3600 - I have to call the guy back to
learn about whether the battery is covered in the 15 yr 150K IMA.

Extras:
Paint protection and upholstery protection - I don't want it.
Undercoating - I don't want it.

Honda Care -- he didn't want to give me an exact price but said around
$2K extends bumper to bumper to 8yr 120K. It doesn't cover catalytic
converter, muffler, exhaust pipe or paint osmetics. Theoritcally you
need to be doing the regular maintenance to not void that warranty.
That would be oil changes ($40), minor tuneups ($140) every 10K and
major tuneups efvery 30K ($389). Not sure whether it's worth it.

Starguard security key for around $500. Might go with that. He
explained that you need the starguard key inserted to run the car and
that avoids the VIN identity theft tricks. I asked him whether that
avoids the brake release tricks that I recently read on this newsgroup
and he wasn't aware of that vulnerability.

Also went for a drive in the car and it drives nicely although it
doesn't have the power that I'm used to. I'm usually a slow driver so
that's okay. I did like the handling.

On Fri, 11 May 2007 17:32:23 +0000 (UTC), > wrote:


>Gordon McGrew > wrote:
>> On Thu, 10 May 2007 12:36:34 GMT, AZ Nomad
>> > wrote:

>> >You're wasting you money if you buy new. Consider $6000 of that going
>> >up in smoke the instant you sign the paperwork.

>> I think that is pretty steep depreciation for a Honda, but it is
>> certainly worth checking what 1-3 year old hybrids are selling for.

>My 2003 Hybrid with 70,000 miles was 20,100 new, 12,400 trade-in now,
>according to Kelly Blue Book. The Private Party value is 14,600.

Eight grand for one year on an economox is incredibly expensive.

>Honda Care -- he didn't want to give me an exact price but said around
>$2K extends bumper to bumper to 8yr 120K. It doesn't cover catalytic
>converter, muffler, exhaust pipe or paint osmetics. Theoritcally you
>need to be doing the regular maintenance to not void that warranty.
>That would be oil changes ($40), minor tuneups ($140) every 10K and
>major tuneups efvery 30K ($389). Not sure whether it's worth it.

I found the Honda Care offered online for A LOT LESS. Looks like
$1215.00 zero deductable.

/Samson

Samson > wrote:

> Honda Care -- he didn't want to give me an exact price but said around
> $2K extends bumper to bumper to 8yr 120K. It doesn't cover catalytic
> converter, muffler, exhaust pipe or paint osmetics. Theoritcally you
> need to be doing the regular maintenance to not void that warranty.
> That would be oil changes ($40), minor tuneups ($140) every 10K and
> major tuneups efvery 30K ($389). Not sure whether it's worth it.

Costco pricing should affect the Honda Care price as well. You should have
received an email from Costco with contact information. Costco is
aggressive about making sure that their contracted terms are met.

The service prices vary. In San Jose, prices for the 10k service were over
$100, in Napa, $50. They both charge a premium for the 0-20 oil.

In California, the catalytic converter, muffler and exhaust should be
covered 15/150 by the emissions warranty.

> Also went for a drive in the car and it drives nicely although it
> doesn't have the power that I'm used to. I'm usually a slow driver so
> that's okay. I did like the handling.

The power is "different". You would find that you probably accelerate more
quickly away from a light than a standard Civic, it just doesn't feel like
it.

--
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5

AZ Nomad > wrote:
> > wrote:

> >My 2003 Hybrid with 70,000 miles was 20,100 new, 12,400 trade-in now,
> >according to Kelly Blue Book. The Private Party value is 14,600.

> Eight grand for one year on an economox is incredibly expensive.

Eight grand for four years, 70,000 miles isn't quite so expensive.

--
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5

>Starguard security key for around $500. Might go with that. He
>explained that you need the starguard key inserted to run the car and
>that avoids the VIN identity theft tricks. I asked him whether that
>avoids the brake release tricks that I recently read on this newsgroup
>and he wasn't aware of that vulnerability.
>
I'm doing some googling to try to find info and pricing about this and
finding almost nothing. I am trying "star guard" "starguard" "star
gard" "stargard". Not much info out there. I must be spelling it
wrong or something.

\Samson

On Sat, 12 May 2007 15:04:51 GMT, Samson > wrote:

>
>>Starguard security key for around $500. Might go with that. He
>>explained that you need the starguard key inserted to run the car and
>>that avoids the VIN identity theft tricks. I asked him whether that
>>avoids the brake release tricks that I recently read on this newsgroup
>>and he wasn't aware of that vulnerability.
>>
>I'm doing some googling to try to find info and pricing about this and
>finding almost nothing. I am trying "star guard" "starguard" "star
>gard" "stargard". Not much info out there. I must be spelling it
>wrong or something.
>
>\Samson

Danger Danger: this sounds like a non-Honda electrical item which will
cause problems down the road. It also sounds like a very high priced
key switch. Is auto theft that big a problem where you are?

>Danger Danger: this sounds like a non-Honda electrical item which will
>cause problems down the road. It also sounds like a very high priced
>key switch. Is auto theft that big a problem where you are?

Yes, it is non-Honda.

Okay. That option (along with the paint products, undercoating, floor
mats, etc) is out too. Looks like I can simply buy the car with no
extras.

Thanks for the advice,

\Samson

wrote:

>Samson > wrote:
>
>> Honda Care -- he didn't want to give me an exact price but said around
>> $2K extends bumper to bumper to 8yr 120K. It doesn't cover catalytic
>> converter, muffler, exhaust pipe or paint osmetics. Theoritcally you
>> need to be doing the regular maintenance to not void that warranty.
>> That would be oil changes ($40), minor tuneups ($140) every 10K and
>> major tuneups efvery 30K ($389). Not sure whether it's worth it.
>
>Costco pricing should affect the Honda Care price as well. You should have
>received an email from Costco with contact information. Costco is
>aggressive about making sure that their contracted terms are met.
>
Just called Costco. It didn't sound like it would save me any
hassles. Costco is telling me over the phone. All they are doing is
referring me to local dealer. I still have to argue with the salesguy
when I get there and he can still tell me whatever he wants.

Let's say I know for sure that I don't intend to buy any of the extras
(which I am starting to come to conclusion is the way to go) and I go
in to buy without saying I want the costco price. I just want the car
price (somewhere between invoice and MSRP), delivery, and tax and
license. The salesman realizes that he is not going to make any of
those high commission sales, so he gives me a high car price. Then I
say I want the costco price. Will he have to lower the price or will
he say "That is the Costco price"? I guess what I'm asking is how
do I know what the Costco price is?

\Samson

"Gordon McGrew" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 10 May 2007 12:36:34 GMT, AZ Nomad
> > wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 09 May 2007 20:46:02 -0700, Samson > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I'm intending to use Costco to buy a Civic Hybrid. The salesman says
>>>that the price is going to be the Invoice price ($20,789) plus
>>>Destination and tax and license. My recollection from buying a car
>>>years ago is that there were a bunch of last minute decisions about
>>>extended warrantees and options like floor mats when signing the
>>>contract.
>>
>>You're wasting you money if you buy new. Consider $6000 of that going
>>up in smoke the instant you sign the paperwork.
>
> I think that is pretty steep depreciation for a Honda, but it is
> certainly worth checking what 1-3 year old hybrids are selling for.
> The OP might want to shop around a little using the quote as a
> starting point with other local dealers.
>
>>>Anybody have any opinions about whether I should go for the Honda
>>>extended warrantee on hybrid?
>>I wouldn't unless they offer a ten year plan.
>>I've yet to see any extended warranty on any product that was worth the
>>cost and trouble.
>>If you can get it for less than $2.5K and it covers >7 years then it might
>>be worth considering. Keep in mind that it will invariably not cover the
>>parts that fail on your car. Make damn sure that coverage for the
>>hybrid battery pack isn't pro-rated.
>
> Honda warranties the battery for 8 years/80K. In some states it is 10
> years/100K. No mention of it being pro-rated. Generally, extended
> warranties aren't worth the cost, but new technology
>
>>>Also years ago I remember being offered some extra protection process
>>>on the paint, and extra protection on the bottom of the car (I live in
>>>Northern California so I don't need protection from salt).
>>Pure snake oil. Don't get any extras. Any.
>
> Certainly none of the magic elixirs. The Honda floor mats are much
> nicer than aftermarket, but they are more expensive. You can always
> buy them later but, if you call around the dealers and know what is a
> good price, you can try to negotiate a discount when you are
> purchasing the car.
The mats in my 06 Accord coupe were quite cheap and lasted less than year.
Buy aftermarket with a heel pad. The mats I had in my 01 Prelude were
substantially better quality new than what you get today in the Accord.

>
> You also want to know how you are financing this car before you go to
> the dealer. You might be able to get better financing at the dealer
> but you have to know your alternatives.
>
> And don't sign anything without checking every number. Bring a
> calculator. Some dealers use document preparation as a major profit
> center.
>
>>
>>Why even get a hybrid? It will never pay for itself compared to a three
>>year
>>old civic non-hybrid. $22K is a lot to pay for a crappy little civic.
>
> It is about the same premium you would pay for the Si model and that
> certainly won't pay for itself. My preference would be for the Si,
> but I am sure the hybrid will be a good car and it just might pay for
> itself after all - at least that is what Consumer Reports projects.
>
> If you really want to save money, buy a two or three-year-old Civic DX
> with a manual transmission and drive it to 150,000 miles and beyond.
> Better yet, just keep driving what you got.
>
>>Also: don't get a loan > 60 months. Keep in mind that the interest
>>compounds
>>for every single year. (13% becomes 30%, etc. after 4 years)
>
> I think that is good advice. Most people can't afford to pay cash but
> if you have to stretch it beyond 36 months, you might consider a
> cheaper car.
>
>