Is Retro Good?

I found this article about retro designs and thought I'd share my
thoughts.

"Retro as a design theme has failed. There are two success stories,
but four failures. Take a look:
Ford's Thunderbird, clearly a failure."

NoOp comment: Yes, it did fail, but I think it had more to do with its
nearly 2-ton curb weight and $40G price tag.

"Volkswagen's New Beetle, sinking every year."

NoOp Comment: The main reason is the Bug's shoddy workmanship. The new
Beetles aren't screwed together worth a damn!

"Chevrolet's SSR, never reached sales targets."

NoOp Comment: Again, too fat and too high a price tag, plus a flexy
frame.

"Chrysler's PT Cruiser, not really a failure but far from the success
it should be."

Sales have cooled lately, but then it hasn't been revised in years.
I'd say the PT has done well.

"On the success side, we have the MINI."

NoOp Comment: Because it was done right. Cars that are done right
succeed.

"Of course, that Mustang is running strong, although it is new so we
don't know how long she will prance."

NoOp Comment: Again becuase did it right. And as long as gas prices
stay reasonable the new Mustang is going to prance for a long time.

"And there's a new one, the Chevy HHR, which looks like it might have
arrived late to the party."

NoOp Comment: It's do great as long as it's priced reasonably, it's
screwed together well, and the details are done right.

"It's also possible to take a bit of the past without going retro: The
Chrysler 300 is like that. There's something about it that points back,
but it's not retro."

NoOp Comment: But without those retro touches it would be just another
Mercedes product.

What are your thoughts?

Patrick
'93 Cobra
'03 Focus ZX3

wrote in news:1120271161.004166.245360
@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

> "Retro as a design theme has failed. There are two success stories,
> but four failures. Take a look:
> Ford's Thunderbird, clearly a failure."
>
> NoOp comment: Yes, it did fail, but I think it had more to do with its
> nearly 2-ton curb weight and $40G price tag.

And it looks like a girly car. Not nearly enough of the original mid 50s
testosterone.

--
"This space for rent."

"elaich" > wrote in message ...
> wrote in news:1120271161.004166.245360
> @g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
>
>> "Retro as a design theme has failed. There are two success stories,
>> but four failures. Take a look:
>> Ford's Thunderbird, clearly a failure."
>>
>> NoOp comment: Yes, it did fail, but I think it had more to do with its
>> nearly 2-ton curb weight and $40G price tag.
>
> And it looks like a girly car. Not nearly enough of the original mid 50s
> testosterone.

And a really wussy V8.
--
Scott W.
'66 HCS Mustang 289
'68 Ranchero 500 302
'69 Mustang Sportsroof 351W
ThunderSnake #57
http://home.comcast.net/~vanguard92/

wrote in news:1120271161.004166.245360
@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

> I found this article about retro designs and thought I'd share my
> thoughts.
>
> "Retro as a design theme has failed. There are two success stories,
> but four failures. Take a look:
> Ford's Thunderbird, clearly a failure."
>
> NoOp comment: Yes, it did fail, but I think it had more to do with
its
> nearly 2-ton curb weight and $40G price tag.

And not quite enough power.

> "Volkswagen's New Beetle, sinking every year."
>
> NoOp Comment: The main reason is the Bug's shoddy workmanship. The
new
> Beetles aren't screwed together worth a damn!

It hasn't evolved enough. It's certainly not the "old" Beetle, but I
do see a helluva lot of girls and women driving them...

> "Chevrolet's SSR, never reached sales targets."
>
> NoOp Comment: Again, too fat and too high a price tag, plus a flexy
> frame.

And pretty much useless except for a joyride or a quick trip to the 7-
11.

> "Chrysler's PT Cruiser, not really a failure but far from the
success
> it should be."
>
> Sales have cooled lately, but then it hasn't been revised in years.
> I'd say the PT has done well.

I think the PT has done extremely well. When it first came out you
couldn't get one, and discounts on it were impossible. Sounds like
the '05 Mustang, right? IIRC, the PT is due for a makeover soon, so
we'll have to see what effect that has on sales.

> "On the success side, we have the MINI."
>
> NoOp Comment: Because it was done right. Cars that are done right
> succeed.

And two other things: It's cool-looking as hell, and it's associated
with BMW.

> "Of course, that Mustang is running strong, although it is new so we
> don't know how long she will prance."
>
> NoOp Comment: Again becuase did it right. And as long as gas
prices
> stay reasonable the new Mustang is going to prance for a long time.

Absolutely. I just don't understand why Ford isn't making more of
them to meet demand.

> "And there's a new one, the Chevy HHR, which looks like it might
have
> arrived late to the party."
>
> NoOp Comment: It's do great as long as it's priced reasonably, it's
> screwed together well, and the details are done right.

Personally, I think it looks like a *******ized Jeep Liberty meets PT
Cruiser. It simply doesn't have that cool look like the Mini has.
Even the Scion XB looks better IMO.

> "It's also possible to take a bit of the past without going retro:
The
> Chrysler 300 is like that. There's something about it that points
back,
> but it's not retro."
>
> NoOp Comment: But without those retro touches it would be just
another
> Mercedes product.

The 300 comes across as truly American, with its big wheels and
"chopped"-style top. MBs have the traditional Euro flavor.

> What are your thoughts?
>
> Patrick
> '93 Cobra
> '03 Focus ZX3
>

Joe > wrote in news:jfyxe.25964$du.13419
@bignews1.bellsouth.net:

>> NoOp Comment: The main reason is the Bug's shoddy workmanship. The
> new
>> Beetles aren't screwed together worth a damn!
>
> It hasn't evolved enough. It's certainly not the "old" Beetle, but I
> do see a helluva lot of girls and women driving them...

News for ya... the OLD beetle wasnt all that great.

Look at ALL of VW's reliability figures... fits right in there.

AND BTW, Audi perenially sux, too.

I have NO idea why some people think VW/Audi are 'better' than
American... everytime they bring out a new model, the car mags praise
them to high heaven... then after a few years acknowledge the much needed
improvements of the NEXT over that one.

All started with the 100LS which was a POS right out the box.
So was the rabbit, now the Jedda, and dont say it's Mexico... ask a
recent owner about Passat's coil-pack problem and how it seems like VW
was 'blind-sided'

I'll take good old H'umericun pieces of carap

Backyard Mechanic > wrote in
:

> Joe > wrote in news:jfyxe.25964$du.13419
> @bignews1.bellsouth.net:
>
>>> NoOp Comment: The main reason is the Bug's shoddy workmanship.
>>> The
>> new
>>> Beetles aren't screwed together worth a damn!
>>
>> It hasn't evolved enough. It's certainly not the "old" Beetle, but
>> I do see a helluva lot of girls and women driving them...
>
> News for ya... the OLD beetle wasnt all that great.

It was great in the sense that you could fix it with a hairpin and
duct tape. Not to mention that they ran forever. And an added plus
was that they floated.

> Look at ALL of VW's reliability figures... fits right in there.
>
> AND BTW, Audi perenially sux, too.
>
> I have NO idea why some people think VW/Audi are 'better' than
> American... everytime they bring out a new model, the car mags
> praise them to high heaven... then after a few years acknowledge the
> much needed improvements of the NEXT over that one.
>
> All started with the 100LS which was a POS right out the box.
> So was the rabbit, now the Jedda, and dont say it's Mexico... ask a
> recent owner about Passat's coil-pack problem and how it seems like
> VW was 'blind-sided'
>
> I'll take good old H'umericun pieces of carap

Actually, so will I. And believe me, I'm not defending the Beetle
because I think it's basically a POS. But it still seems like a lot
of women drive them because they're "cute" or something.

Joe > wrote in news:HxAxe.12316$ho.9601
@bignews6.bellsouth.net:

> It was great in the sense that you could fix it with a hairpin and
> duct tape. Not to mention that they ran forever. And an added plus
> was that they floated.

Overheating in hot climes was a big problem. An outboard oil cooler
helped some.

A friend of mine who had one said that the aluminum block would allow
head bolts to creep out until the head gaskets blew. The cure for that
was deep seated head studs.

Other than that, the only problem I saw with the was the size (bad in an
accident) and drawing interior heat from the exhaust manifolds. Hard to
get your windows defrosted and could be deadly with an exhaust leak.

--
"This space for rent."

"Backyard Mechanic" > wrote in message
...
> Joe > wrote in news:jfyxe.25964$du.13419
> @bignews1.bellsouth.net:
>
>>> NoOp Comment: The main reason is the Bug's shoddy workmanship. The
>> new
>>> Beetles aren't screwed together worth a damn!
>>
>> It hasn't evolved enough. It's certainly not the "old" Beetle, but I
>> do see a helluva lot of girls and women driving them...
>
> News for ya... the OLD beetle wasnt all that great.
>
> Look at ALL of VW's reliability figures... fits right in there.
>
> AND BTW, Audi perenially sux, too.
>
> I have NO idea why some people think VW/Audi are 'better' than
> American... everytime they bring out a new model, the car mags praise
> them to high heaven... then after a few years acknowledge the much needed
> improvements of the NEXT over that one.
>
> All started with the 100LS which was a POS right out the box.
> So was the rabbit, now the Jedda, and dont say it's Mexico... ask a
> recent owner about Passat's coil-pack problem and how it seems like VW
> was 'blind-sided'
>
> I'll take good old H'umericun pieces of carap

I bought the new style Passat as a 2001.5, which is the same car they are
currently producing. I drove if for three years and when the lease was up
my son bought it and is still driving it. This has been the best car I've
owned and about the only one I never tired of. Son had to take it in for
it's first repair a couple of months ago, a sticking throttle linkage was
causing it to idle too low. Fixed in about fifteen minutes. The Passat is
really just an Audi A-4 with a VW shell and interior (which is of better
quality then most high end luxury sedans), but sells for allot less. I got
mine fully loaded with the 1.8T motor for just about 27K. I know of no
other sedan in the Passat's price range that can top it. Great car!

Jack Dotson wrote:
>
> I bought the new style Passat as a 2001.5, which is the same car they are
> currently producing. I drove if for three years and when the lease was up
> my son bought it and is still driving it. This has been the best car I've
> owned and about the only one I never tired of. Son had to take it in for
> it's first repair a couple of months ago, a sticking throttle linkage was
> causing it to idle too low. Fixed in about fifteen minutes. The Passat is
> really just an Audi A-4 with a VW shell and interior (which is of better
> quality then most high end luxury sedans), but sells for allot less. I got
> mine fully loaded with the 1.8T motor for just about 27K. I know of no
> other sedan in the Passat's price range that can top it. Great car!

My wife had a Passat. It had problems too numerous to list. Two
clutches, new computer, etc., etc. A couple of times the "check engine
light" came on while she was driving it out the dealership after a repair.

The final straw: Immediately after having a major scheduled maintenance
service, she was driving it to our summer place in Idaho when the timing
belt broke in the middle of the desert. Of course, the engine was
trashed. It was towed to the nearest VW dealership in Twin Falls and a
new engine was ordered. It took about two months to arrive. (In the
meantime, she had to buy another car.) The new engine was installed and
when they fired it up they found it had seriously bad noises coming from
the valve train. So, they ordered another engine, and it took another
two months. I sold that piece of **** immediately, on consignment so
that the new owner wouldn't know where I live. It was far and away the
worst lemon I've ever owned.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

> > "On the success side, we have the MINI."
> >
> > NoOp Comment: Because it was done right. Cars that are done right
> > succeed.
>
> And two other things: It's cool-looking as hell, and it's associated
> with BMW.

Tight handling. Plenty of power. Ergonomics of the interior, controls and
seats are excellent. Geez what's so difficult about that? An SVT Focus could
have easily met these criteria given the right management mindset.

Howard
1989 LX vert 5.0