1600 -> 1641

Dennis Wik wrote:
> Bob, is my basic assumption that the greater the air flow (cfm), the
> better then?
>
---------------------------------------------------------

Where? Flow-bench? Carb? Cooling? If the latter, the volume is
meaningless without pressure. Failure to install all of the tin-ware
typically increases the amount of air delivered by the blower since
it's working against less pressure, but the end result is a hotter
running engine.

As the engine heats up it requires more pressure to push the same
amount of air through the hotter fins. Given the nature of air --
easily compressed -- it takes only a surprisingly small amount of
leakage to reduce the efficiency of the VW's cooling system by as much
as half.

-Bob Hoover

> Snipped for specificity>
>If you want to improve your ignition system simply replace the
>mechanical points with a solid-state switch, such as the Pertronix or
>Compu-Fire. If you want to run higher rpms and a higher compression
>ratio, install a Capacitance Discharge ignition module.
>
>But if all you want is one of those kewl blue coils that all the
>magazines say are so good, buy a can of spray paint.
>
>-Bob Hoover


Bob, I have read the same thing ever since I have been reading this
group. I like it. I have used Pertronix, and was very pleased with the
results. A relatively quick and easy "upgrade".
I recall a couple of years back, you put a bug in all of our ears
about modifying a Toyota Distributor and using the igintion system for
a Beetle.
I would love to have a full explanation on the Toyota Ignition sytem
modification and a basic parts list (what to scavenge form the
wreckin' yard). Care to share a mostly complete or even a complete
version of that mod?
email is fine if so. If not,.........well I understand. I will
experiment on my own if necessary.
The folks on the group would likely be very appreciative of that mod
also.

By the way, those reading in may want to know that these Toyota
ignition parts can be more expensive even in a wrecking yard than a VW
distributor and ignition set, by quite a bit. Maybe double or
more.........I love the way they work though, and am simply driven to
try it on a Bug for my next build-up. (the DUNE BUGGY engine)




Remove "YOURPANTIES" to reply

MUADIB®

http://www.angelfire.com/retro/sster...IN%20PAGE.html

If A Quiz is Quizical,
What is a test?

The Peacemaking Meeting scheduled for today has been
cancelled due to a conflict.

"Dennis Wik" > wrote in message
...
> Bob, is my basic assumption that the greater the air flow (cfm), the
> better then?

Let me tag onto the question with something I ran across in a journal under
a different topic - the issue was "stuffing", where too much air into
convoluted system reduced efficiency by causing drag on the impellor, and in
the end, it did not increase flow.

I do not know if any of the available pulleys will make the ACVW behave that
way.

If the he changed the cylinders without machining the heads (there was/is a
slip in option) then you will be best to get rid of the cylinders as they
will again warp, just like any thin metal when heated.

The 1776 is my opinion is the best option for over sizing. I have built too
many to remember and never had any problems. My Type 2 runs a 1776 with a
pair of Weber 40IDFs and I expect it to be putting out about 100bhp. It is
always fun when leaving VanFest to be in the fast lane on the M5 doing about
20mph more than the other vans.
In a Beetle you'll be able to lighten the flywheel giving faster
acceleration and fit a higher lift cam, giving more top power that I can't
in a heavy vehicle like a fully loaded crew cab.

You could also consider a longer stroke crank which has only one down side,
which is the expense. Get a 74 or 78mm, then you'll be looking at 1905cc or
2007cc and know that you're not nearing the edge of the engine's limits
thereby giving you an engine that will last for a number of years trouble
free.

Gaz



"Ant" > wrote in message
...
> Yep, it was a 1300 - but prev owner made in 1600cc.
> I just wanted to add a few extra horses as i'm on a budget.
>
> does the 1776 motor go quite quick?
>
>
> "Gaz Pike" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Don't do it. The 1641 cylinders are weak and will square after time and
>> lose compression.
>> BTW an AB is a 1300, unless it has been changed to a 1600. If it is a
>> 1300, then the heads will be a different bore, so they will need
>> machining anyway. It's been a while, but there might be 1300 slip in
>> 1641s, but I can't remember. Anyway, they aren't worth having either
>> way.
>>
>> My personal favourite is the 1776, as this has the thickest cylinder wall
>> of any after market, less the 1679 (88mm) machine in, but gains the extra
>> 100cc.
>>
>> Have you read the article on the Ramva index on building a performance
>> engine? www.ramva.tk
>>
>>
>> Gaz
>>
>>
>> "Ant" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>> I can remember writing about this a while ago, but thought i'd ask again
>>> as my minds a bit naff.
>>>
>>> I have a 1600cc AB engine (with Engle 110, 1500 g/box and 32/36 Weber
>>> dual Choke). I've seen that you can buy a piston kit to make it 1641cc.
>>> Sounds good as i understand that you dont need to start having things
>>> bored out/machined.
>>>
>>> Questions
>>> 1) Will i notice a difference in speed/BHP? will a whopping 41cc's make
>>> any difference?
>>> 2) Would it be ok with the cam shaft and existing weber.
>>> 3) should it be ok, is there anything else i would need to buy? or is
>>> everything in the kit? (kit comprises of barrels, pistons, clips and
>>> pins - ooh yes and the rings)
>>>
>>> Money is a bit tight, so as much as i would like twin beefy webers i
>>> cant afford it (other bits needing sorting on car)
>>>
>>> Cheers fellow bug'ers - ant
>>> UK - 1966 'Mellow Yellow' Beetle
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Oh, one point, do get your compression ratio right. You'll need no more
than 7.6:1. You'll find the calculations at the end of the Building a
Performance Engine link on the Ramva Index. 7.6:1 is the most you can go
using regular unleaded (95RON).

Gaz


"Ant" > wrote in message
...
> Yep, it was a 1300 - but prev owner made in 1600cc.
> I just wanted to add a few extra horses as i'm on a budget.
>
> does the 1776 motor go quite quick?
>
>
> "Gaz Pike" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Don't do it. The 1641 cylinders are weak and will square after time and
>> lose compression.
>> BTW an AB is a 1300, unless it has been changed to a 1600. If it is a
>> 1300, then the heads will be a different bore, so they will need
>> machining anyway. It's been a while, but there might be 1300 slip in
>> 1641s, but I can't remember. Anyway, they aren't worth having either
>> way.
>>
>> My personal favourite is the 1776, as this has the thickest cylinder wall
>> of any after market, less the 1679 (88mm) machine in, but gains the extra
>> 100cc.
>>
>> Have you read the article on the Ramva index on building a performance
>> engine? www.ramva.tk
>>
>>
>> Gaz
>>
>>
>> "Ant" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>> I can remember writing about this a while ago, but thought i'd ask again
>>> as my minds a bit naff.
>>>
>>> I have a 1600cc AB engine (with Engle 110, 1500 g/box and 32/36 Weber
>>> dual Choke). I've seen that you can buy a piston kit to make it 1641cc.
>>> Sounds good as i understand that you dont need to start having things
>>> bored out/machined.
>>>
>>> Questions
>>> 1) Will i notice a difference in speed/BHP? will a whopping 41cc's make
>>> any difference?
>>> 2) Would it be ok with the cam shaft and existing weber.
>>> 3) should it be ok, is there anything else i would need to buy? or is
>>> everything in the kit? (kit comprises of barrels, pistons, clips and
>>> pins - ooh yes and the rings)
>>>
>>> Money is a bit tight, so as much as i would like twin beefy webers i
>>> cant afford it (other bits needing sorting on car)
>>>
>>> Cheers fellow bug'ers - ant
>>> UK - 1966 'Mellow Yellow' Beetle
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

MUADIB=AE wrote:
>
> I recall a couple of years back, you put a bug in all of our ears
> about modifying a Toyota Distributor and using the igintion system for
> a Beetle.
> I would love to have a full explanation on the Toyota Ignition sytem
> modification and a basic parts list (what to scavenge form the
> wreckin' yard). Care to share a mostly complete or even a complete
> version of that mod?
----------------------------------------------

I thought I already had :-)

See:
http://groups-beta.google.com/groups...g=3Dr&hl=3Den=
&as_epq=3DToyota+distributor&as_oq=3D&as_eq=3D&as_ ugroup=3D&as_usubject=3D&=
as_uauthors=3Dveeduber&lr=3D&as_drrb=3Dq&as_qdr=3D &as_mind=3D1&as_minm=3D1&=
as_miny=3D1981&as_maxd=3D26&as_maxm=3D6&as_maxy=3D 2005&safe=3Doff

If that doesn't pharse, use Google's 'advance search' function with
veeduber as the seed in the Author field, Toyota distributor in the
specific phrase and VW in the Any field. Should pop it right up.

But if you meant a complete cookbook/How-To, like the HVX Mods, or
Dialing in Your Cam, forget it. Vast waste of time. (Or at least,
half-vast :-) The magazines aren't interested in real articles and
anything truly useful posted to the internet is immediately stolen by
the dum****s who don't understand the significance of the Social
Contract.

-Bob Hoover

>I thought I already had :-)
>
>See:
>http://groups-beta.google.com/groups...=2005&safe=off
>
>If that doesn't pharse, use Google's 'advance search' function with
>veeduber as the seed in the Author field, Toyota distributor in the
>specific phrase and VW in the Any field. Should pop it right up.
>
>But if you meant a complete cookbook/How-To, like the HVX Mods, or
>Dialing in Your Cam, forget it. Vast waste of time. (Or at least,
>half-vast :-) The magazines aren't interested in real articles and
>anything truly useful posted to the internet is immediately stolen by
>the dum****s who don't understand the significance of the Social
>Contract.
>
>-Bob Hoover

Well, I was hoping there was a complete cookbook. However your advice
is taken and I found the entry you made with all the info. I didn't
believe it was that old, but was actuall made in Dec. of 2001. I musta
missed it, cause I remember waiting for an update after the first
mention of it. I am not sure why I didn;t get or don;t remember
getting that post. It was like reading something I had never seen
before, so I'm pretty sure I missed it. Thanks Bob. I certainly
appreciate it. I'll be posting in a year or so, whenI have a motor
running with it.




Remove "YOURPANTIES" to reply

MUADIB®

http://www.angelfire.com/retro/sster...IN%20PAGE.html

If A Quiz is Quizical,
What is a test?

The Peacemaking Meeting scheduled for today has been
cancelled due to a conflict.

wrote:
>
>
>Dennis Wik wrote:
>> Bob, is my basic assumption that the greater the air flow (cfm), the
>> better then?
>>
>---------------------------------------------------------
>
>Where? Flow-bench? Carb? Cooling? If the latter, the volume is
>meaningless without pressure. Failure to install all of the tin-ware
>typically increases the amount of air delivered by the blower since
>it's working against less pressure, but the end result is a hotter
>running engine.
>
>As the engine heats up it requires more pressure to push the same
>amount of air through the hotter fins. Given the nature of air --
>easily compressed -- it takes only a surprisingly small amount of
>leakage to reduce the efficiency of the VW's cooling system by as much
>as half.
>
>-Bob Hoover
>

Bob,

Do you think that the flaps inside the cooling are also important to increase the
air pressure? The speed of the air on the heads should be higher with the flaps
on consequently more efficient. I put the flaps again during the last rebuilt. I
do believe that here in Portugal I have the only rebuilt engine, with flaps and
thermostat on.



Joao
72 Super 1302

Joao Eliseu wrote:
> wrote:
>
>>
>>Dennis Wik wrote:
>>
>>>Bob, is my basic assumption that the greater the air flow (cfm), the
>>>better then?
>>>
>>
>>---------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>Where? Flow-bench? Carb? Cooling? If the latter, the volume is
>>meaningless without pressure. Failure to install all of the tin-ware
>>typically increases the amount of air delivered by the blower since
>>it's working against less pressure, but the end result is a hotter
>>running engine.
>>
>>As the engine heats up it requires more pressure to push the same
>>amount of air through the hotter fins. Given the nature of air --
>>easily compressed -- it takes only a surprisingly small amount of
>>leakage to reduce the efficiency of the VW's cooling system by as much
>>as half.
>>
>>-Bob Hoover
>>
>
>
> Bob,
>
> Do you think that the flaps inside the cooling are also important to increase the
> air pressure? The speed of the air on the heads should be higher with the flaps
> on consequently more efficient. I put the flaps again during the last rebuilt. I
> do believe that here in Portugal I have the only rebuilt engine, with flaps and
> thermostat on.
>
>
>
> Joao
> 72 Super 1302


The flaps are CRITICAL, they separate the cylinder side from the head
side cooling area, so that the air that is blown over the head fins,
will not escape the easiest route and go over the cylinders.
The flaps, when fully open, form airDAMS that control the direction of
airflow.


Jan

Jan > wrote:
>Joao Eliseu wrote:
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>Dennis Wik wrote:
>>>
>>>>Bob, is my basic assumption that the greater the air flow (cfm), the
>>>>better then?
>>>>
>>>
>>>---------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>Where? Flow-bench? Carb? Cooling? If the latter, the volume is
>>>meaningless without pressure. Failure to install all of the tin-ware
>>>typically increases the amount of air delivered by the blower since
>>>it's working against less pressure, but the end result is a hotter
>>>running engine.
>>>
>>>As the engine heats up it requires more pressure to push the same
>>>amount of air through the hotter fins. Given the nature of air --
>>>easily compressed -- it takes only a surprisingly small amount of
>>>leakage to reduce the efficiency of the VW's cooling system by as much
>>>as half.
>>>
>>>-Bob Hoover
>>>
>>
>>
>> Bob,
>>
>> Do you think that the flaps inside the cooling are also important to increase
>the
>> air pressure? The speed of the air on the heads should be higher with the
>flaps
>> on consequently more efficient. I put the flaps again during the last rebuilt.
>I
>> do believe that here in Portugal I have the only rebuilt engine, with flaps
>and
>> thermostat on.
>>
>>
>>
>> Joao
>> 72 Super 1302
>
>
>The flaps are CRITICAL, they separate the cylinder side from the head
>side cooling area, so that the air that is blown over the head fins,
>will not escape the easiest route and go over the cylinders.
>The flaps, when fully open, form airDAMS that control the direction of
>airflow.
>
>
>Jan
>
>
That is true...but when we explain it to a self called mechanic they say that it
is not necessary. Most of them never read a manual and learn with the mistakes made
on our cars.




Joao
72 Super 1302