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#1
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Consumer Report's Bulb Test
The recent issue tests after market bulbs, including the GE NightHawk and
the Sylvania bulbs. Their results were inconsistent depending upon the car lamp in question. I found that the NightHawk did give me a boost in my 04 Town and Country and the GE/Toshiba inferred bulbs improved my 98 RAV4 much more than my PT Cruiser. Perhaps there is something about improvements being lamp specific. Richard. |
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#2
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Consumer Report's Bulb Test
On Thu, 29 Dec 2005, Richard wrote:
> The recent issue tests after market bulbs, including the GE NightHawk > and the Sylvania bulbs. Their results were inconsistent depending upon > the car lamp in question. They also just took the bulb makers' word regarding DOT compliance ("All the tested bulbs claim DOT compliance") without checking -- shame on them. Had they checked, they'd likely have found that the APC Plasma Ultra White bulbs are very definitely *not* compliant in several important ways. They've made a lot of noise regarding their newly implemented headlamp "tests" over the last year or so. Typical CR selfgratulatory crapola. I won't bother rehashing the exact reasons why their headlamp "tests" are largely bogus; I've posted the analysis before in this forum and others. It's not just a question of "Dan Stern doesn't agree with Consumer Reports"; it's much more serious than that: Many of their assumptions and recommendations regarding headlamps are just plain nonsense fabricated out of the same whole cloth that allows CR to consider themselves expert in everything from red wine to oil filters to washing machines to insurance policies. DS |
#3
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Consumer Report's Bulb Test
Consumer Reports is very prone to letting their agendas override their
objectivity. Suzuki suffered major difficulties with its image after Consumer Reports magazine's famous, or infamous, claim in 1988 that the Samurai was prone to rollover. The Suzuki Samurai small SUV enjoyed enormous popularity and sales in the mid-1980's until the CR article was published. Consumer Reports had stated that the Samurai "easily rolls over in turns" and that it was "likely to roll over during a maneuver that could be demanded of any car at any time". U.S. government studies actually showed that the Samurai's rate of rollover was similar to that of other SUV's. Sales plunged and Suzuki eventually stopped production of the Samurai in 1995. Suzuki filed lawsuit in 1996 for product disparagement after Consumer Reports magazine rehashed the old test results in yet another article. Suzuki had pursued their $60 billion lawsuit ever since 1996 in the position that the Consumer Reports "not acceptable" rating had caused sales to plunge, tarnished the company's image and set back the company's brand in the US for a decade. Suzuki went so far as to specifically claim that Consumer's Union had rigged the tests against the popular SUV to create media attention in the midst of their fund-raising drive. A trial judge threw out the suit, but the 9th District Court of Appeals later reinstated it on the grounds that Suzuki had presented enough evidence that CU published knowing falsehoods in their article, and the Supreme Court in 2003 refused to prevent the case from going forward. Suzuki's managing counsel had stated that "The evidence will clearly show that, rather than driving all the vehicles the same, CU singled out the Suzuki Samurai and, through stunt-like steering, intentionally made it tip up -- all to support CU's pre-determined story line, only after the Samurai received the best possible rating on the test CU had used for the past 15 years." The court noted that at the time CU initially criticized the Samurai, CU had just purchased a new building and therefore "needed to boost its revenues to complete its capital campaign." The court concluded that this "evidence of financial motive dovetails with the evidence of test-rigging." In a similar lawsuit by Isuzu against CU regarding their Isuzu Trooper receiving a similar "not acceptable" rating, Isuzu provided evidence that the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and its British counterpart rejected Consumer Reports' rollover tests as unscientific on the grounds that they were subject to driver influence. Isuzu was charging that the consumer group falsified certain test data and concealed other information. It charged also that a magazine staffer began writing the article before the tests were concluded. Just before the 1996 Trooper tests, the NHTSA rejected the consumer organization's petition to establish rollover standards. Isuzu's lawyers say the article's timing was more than coincidence; it was an effort to generate media attention for CU and their latest cause. Consumer Reports counsel tried to turn the case into a First Amendment issue, essentially intimating that even if the tests were biased, they should be protected from a product disparagement claim because the organization is part of the press, and asserting that they should have received a summary judgment on that basis. CU finally compromised their statement in a settlement late last year to clarify that the rollover tendency was only seen in their somewhat extreme emergency rollover test and was not applicable to routine driving conditions. Consumer's Union added that "CU's use of the adverb 'easily' may have been misconstrued and misunderstood" and that "CU never intended to state or imply that the Samurai easily rolls over in routine driving conditions." "Daniel J. Stern" > wrote in message n.umich.edu... > On Thu, 29 Dec 2005, Richard wrote: > > > The recent issue tests after market bulbs, including the GE NightHawk > > and the Sylvania bulbs. Their results were inconsistent depending upon > > the car lamp in question. > > They also just took the bulb makers' word regarding DOT compliance ("All > the tested bulbs claim DOT compliance") without checking -- shame on them. > Had they checked, they'd likely have found that the APC Plasma Ultra White > bulbs are very definitely *not* compliant in several important ways. > > They've made a lot of noise regarding their newly implemented headlamp > "tests" over the last year or so. Typical CR selfgratulatory crapola. I > won't bother rehashing the exact reasons why their headlamp "tests" are > largely bogus; I've posted the analysis before in this forum and others. > It's not just a question of "Dan Stern doesn't agree with Consumer > Reports"; it's much more serious than that: Many of their assumptions and > recommendations regarding headlamps are just plain nonsense fabricated out > of the same whole cloth that allows CR to consider themselves expert in > everything from red wine to oil filters to washing machines to insurance > policies. > > DS |
#4
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Consumer Report's Bulb Test
Richard wrote:
> The recent issue tests after market bulbs, including the GE NightHawk and > the Sylvania bulbs. Their results were inconsistent depending upon the car > lamp in question. > > I found that the NightHawk did give me a boost in my 04 Town and Country and > the GE/Toshiba inferred bulbs improved my 98 RAV4 much more than my PT > Cruiser. Perhaps there is something about improvements being lamp specific. > > Richard. > > I put Nighthawks in my vehicle and they are indeed brighter than the standard issue lamps. Also, at Wallyworld, a 2-pack of Nighthawks is around $10 cheaper than a 2-pack of Silverstars. And Nighthawks have clear glass while Silverstars have that sickly blue cast. Daniel, you once mentioned that bulbs with an "axial" filament (running the length of the bulb) are superior to those with the filament running across the width. Why is this? |
#5
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Consumer Report's Bulb Test
Fascinating but you forgot to post the part where both automakers gave up in
their attacks on CU and both cars sucked compared to increased competition and that is why they stopped selling. "Marc" > wrote in message .. . > Consumer Reports is very prone to letting their agendas override their > objectivity. > > > > Suzuki suffered major difficulties with its image after Consumer Reports > magazine's famous, or infamous, claim in 1988 that the Samurai was prone > to > rollover. The Suzuki Samurai small SUV enjoyed enormous popularity and > sales in the mid-1980's until the CR article was published. > > > > Consumer Reports had stated that the Samurai "easily rolls over in turns" > and that it was "likely to roll over during a maneuver that could be > demanded of any car at any time". U.S. government studies actually showed > that the Samurai's rate of rollover was similar to that of other SUV's. > Sales plunged and Suzuki eventually stopped production of the Samurai in > 1995. > > > > Suzuki filed lawsuit in 1996 for product disparagement after Consumer > Reports magazine rehashed the old test results in yet another article. > Suzuki had pursued their $60 billion lawsuit ever since 1996 in the > position > that the Consumer Reports "not acceptable" rating had caused sales to > plunge, tarnished the company's image and set back the company's brand in > the US for a decade. Suzuki went so far as to specifically claim that > Consumer's Union had rigged the tests against the popular SUV to create > media attention in the midst of their fund-raising drive. > > > > A trial judge threw out the suit, but the 9th District Court of Appeals > later reinstated it on the grounds that Suzuki had presented enough > evidence > that CU published knowing falsehoods in their article, and the Supreme > Court > in 2003 refused to prevent the case from going forward. Suzuki's managing > counsel had stated that "The evidence will clearly show that, rather than > driving all the vehicles the same, CU singled out the Suzuki Samurai and, > through stunt-like steering, intentionally made it tip up -- all to > support > CU's pre-determined story line, only after the Samurai received the best > possible rating on the test CU had used for the past 15 years." The court > noted that at the time CU initially criticized the Samurai, CU had just > purchased a new building and therefore "needed to boost its revenues to > complete its capital campaign." The court concluded that this "evidence > of > financial motive dovetails with the evidence of test-rigging." > > > > In a similar lawsuit by Isuzu against CU regarding their Isuzu Trooper > receiving a similar "not acceptable" rating, Isuzu provided evidence that > the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and its British > counterpart rejected Consumer Reports' rollover tests as unscientific on > the > grounds that they were subject to driver influence. Isuzu was charging > that > the consumer group falsified certain test data and concealed other > information. It charged also that a magazine staffer began writing the > article before the tests were concluded. > > > > Just before the 1996 Trooper tests, the NHTSA rejected the consumer > organization's petition to establish rollover standards. Isuzu's lawyers > say > the article's timing was more than coincidence; it was an effort to > generate > media attention for CU and their latest cause. > > > > Consumer Reports counsel tried to turn the case into a First Amendment > issue, essentially intimating that even if the tests were biased, they > should be protected from a product disparagement claim because the > organization is part of the press, and asserting that they should have > received a summary judgment on that basis. CU finally compromised their > statement in a settlement late last year to clarify that the rollover > tendency was only seen in their somewhat extreme emergency rollover test > and > was not applicable to routine driving conditions. > > > > Consumer's Union added that "CU's use of the adverb 'easily' may have been > misconstrued and misunderstood" and that "CU never intended to state or > imply that the Samurai easily rolls over in routine driving conditions." > > > > "Daniel J. Stern" > wrote in message > n.umich.edu... >> On Thu, 29 Dec 2005, Richard wrote: >> >> > The recent issue tests after market bulbs, including the GE NightHawk >> > and the Sylvania bulbs. Their results were inconsistent depending upon >> > the car lamp in question. >> >> They also just took the bulb makers' word regarding DOT compliance ("All >> the tested bulbs claim DOT compliance") without checking -- shame on >> them. >> Had they checked, they'd likely have found that the APC Plasma Ultra >> White >> bulbs are very definitely *not* compliant in several important ways. >> >> They've made a lot of noise regarding their newly implemented headlamp >> "tests" over the last year or so. Typical CR selfgratulatory crapola. I >> won't bother rehashing the exact reasons why their headlamp "tests" are >> largely bogus; I've posted the analysis before in this forum and others. >> It's not just a question of "Dan Stern doesn't agree with Consumer >> Reports"; it's much more serious than that: Many of their assumptions and >> recommendations regarding headlamps are just plain nonsense fabricated >> out >> of the same whole cloth that allows CR to consider themselves expert in >> everything from red wine to oil filters to washing machines to insurance >> policies. >> >> DS > > |
#6
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Consumer Report's Bulb Test
On Thu, 29 Dec 2005, Marc wrote:
> Consumer Reports is very prone to letting their agendas override their > objectivity. What objectivity? They make a lot of noise about how objective they are because they don't accept advertising, but that is a disingenuous nonsequitur, for every issue of CR is cover-to-cover advertisement for CU's many produts and services, and they use the same marketeering psychology every other advertising company uses. It's just they don't accept advertising *from other people*. > Suzuki suffered major difficulties with its image after Consumer Reports > magazine's famous, or infamous, claim in 1988 that the Samurai was prone > to rollover. The Suzuki Samurai small SUV enjoyed enormous popularity > and sales in the mid-1980's until the CR article was published. They did the same thing to Audi with the "unintended acceleration" crapola. DS |
#7
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Consumer Report's Bulb Test
On Thu, 29 Dec 2005, haywood jablomy wrote:
> Daniel, you once mentioned that bulbs with an "axial" filament (running > the length of the bulb) are superior to those with the filament running > across the width. Why is this? 1) In rectangular lamps, there's much more available light and much less light wasted on the floor and ceiling if the filament is axial rather than transverse. 2) In a parabolic reflector, the unmodified beam from an axial filament is a round spot, while from a transverse filament it's a more-or-less rectangular "bow tie" shape. The round spot is easier to manipulate to direct light where it's needed while keeping light away from where it's not. That is: A round spot is easier to focus than a horizontal kinda-bar. It's also much easier to control glare and upward stray light when starting from a round spot. There are some applications in which transverse filaments are a better choice (tall strip-shaped reflectors, some kinds of fog lamps, certain kinds of high beam/"driving" lamps). DS |
#8
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Consumer Report's Bulb Test
Daniel J. Stern wrote:
> On Thu, 29 Dec 2005, Marc wrote: > >> Consumer Reports is very prone to letting their agendas override their >> objectivity. > > > What objectivity? They make a lot of noise about how objective they are > because they don't accept advertising, but that is a disingenuous > nonsequitur, for every issue of CR is cover-to-cover advertisement for > CU's many produts and services, and they use the same marketeering > psychology every other advertising company uses. It's just they don't > accept advertising *from other people*. > >> Suzuki suffered major difficulties with its image after Consumer >> Reports magazine's famous, or infamous, claim in 1988 that the Samurai >> was prone to rollover. The Suzuki Samurai small SUV enjoyed enormous >> popularity and sales in the mid-1980's until the CR article was >> published. > > > They did the same thing to Audi with the "unintended acceleration" crapola. > > DS Made for some excellent bargains on the used car market. Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x') |
#9
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Consumer Report's Bulb Test
Art,
On another matter. Does the 300M give you any back support? I'm thinking of selling mine since my back is killing me. Ken "Art" > wrote in message news > Fascinating but you forgot to post the part where both automakers gave up > in their attacks on CU and both cars sucked compared to increased > competition and that is why they stopped selling. > > > "Marc" > wrote in message > .. . >> Consumer Reports is very prone to letting their agendas override their >> objectivity. >> >> >> >> Suzuki suffered major difficulties with its image after Consumer Reports >> magazine's famous, or infamous, claim in 1988 that the Samurai was prone >> to >> rollover. The Suzuki Samurai small SUV enjoyed enormous popularity and >> sales in the mid-1980's until the CR article was published. >> >> >> >> Consumer Reports had stated that the Samurai "easily rolls over in turns" >> and that it was "likely to roll over during a maneuver that could be >> demanded of any car at any time". U.S. government studies actually >> showed >> that the Samurai's rate of rollover was similar to that of other SUV's. >> Sales plunged and Suzuki eventually stopped production of the Samurai in >> 1995. >> >> >> >> Suzuki filed lawsuit in 1996 for product disparagement after Consumer >> Reports magazine rehashed the old test results in yet another article. >> Suzuki had pursued their $60 billion lawsuit ever since 1996 in the >> position >> that the Consumer Reports "not acceptable" rating had caused sales to >> plunge, tarnished the company's image and set back the company's brand in >> the US for a decade. Suzuki went so far as to specifically claim that >> Consumer's Union had rigged the tests against the popular SUV to create >> media attention in the midst of their fund-raising drive. >> >> >> >> A trial judge threw out the suit, but the 9th District Court of Appeals >> later reinstated it on the grounds that Suzuki had presented enough >> evidence >> that CU published knowing falsehoods in their article, and the Supreme >> Court >> in 2003 refused to prevent the case from going forward. Suzuki's >> managing >> counsel had stated that "The evidence will clearly show that, rather than >> driving all the vehicles the same, CU singled out the Suzuki Samurai and, >> through stunt-like steering, intentionally made it tip up -- all to >> support >> CU's pre-determined story line, only after the Samurai received the best >> possible rating on the test CU had used for the past 15 years." The >> court >> noted that at the time CU initially criticized the Samurai, CU had just >> purchased a new building and therefore "needed to boost its revenues to >> complete its capital campaign." The court concluded that this "evidence >> of >> financial motive dovetails with the evidence of test-rigging." >> >> >> >> In a similar lawsuit by Isuzu against CU regarding their Isuzu Trooper >> receiving a similar "not acceptable" rating, Isuzu provided evidence that >> the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and its British >> counterpart rejected Consumer Reports' rollover tests as unscientific on >> the >> grounds that they were subject to driver influence. Isuzu was charging >> that >> the consumer group falsified certain test data and concealed other >> information. It charged also that a magazine staffer began writing the >> article before the tests were concluded. >> >> >> >> Just before the 1996 Trooper tests, the NHTSA rejected the consumer >> organization's petition to establish rollover standards. Isuzu's lawyers >> say >> the article's timing was more than coincidence; it was an effort to >> generate >> media attention for CU and their latest cause. >> >> >> >> Consumer Reports counsel tried to turn the case into a First Amendment >> issue, essentially intimating that even if the tests were biased, they >> should be protected from a product disparagement claim because the >> organization is part of the press, and asserting that they should have >> received a summary judgment on that basis. CU finally compromised their >> statement in a settlement late last year to clarify that the rollover >> tendency was only seen in their somewhat extreme emergency rollover test >> and >> was not applicable to routine driving conditions. >> >> >> >> Consumer's Union added that "CU's use of the adverb 'easily' may have >> been >> misconstrued and misunderstood" and that "CU never intended to state or >> imply that the Samurai easily rolls over in routine driving conditions." >> >> >> >> "Daniel J. Stern" > wrote in message >> n.umich.edu... >>> On Thu, 29 Dec 2005, Richard wrote: >>> >>> > The recent issue tests after market bulbs, including the GE NightHawk >>> > and the Sylvania bulbs. Their results were inconsistent depending upon >>> > the car lamp in question. >>> >>> They also just took the bulb makers' word regarding DOT compliance ("All >>> the tested bulbs claim DOT compliance") without checking -- shame on >>> them. >>> Had they checked, they'd likely have found that the APC Plasma Ultra >>> White >>> bulbs are very definitely *not* compliant in several important ways. >>> >>> They've made a lot of noise regarding their newly implemented headlamp >>> "tests" over the last year or so. Typical CR selfgratulatory crapola. I >>> won't bother rehashing the exact reasons why their headlamp "tests" are >>> largely bogus; I've posted the analysis before in this forum and others. >>> It's not just a question of "Dan Stern doesn't agree with Consumer >>> Reports"; it's much more serious than that: Many of their assumptions >>> and >>> recommendations regarding headlamps are just plain nonsense fabricated >>> out >>> of the same whole cloth that allows CR to consider themselves expert in >>> everything from red wine to oil filters to washing machines to insurance >>> policies. >>> >>> DS >> >> > > |
#10
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Consumer Report's Bulb Test
Mine is ok. But ours only has 51000 miles on it so the seat might be in
better shape than yours if you have higher mileage. My wife just bought a hybrid Accord so we will be getting rid of the 300M. It was a great ride but she wanted something smaller for parking at work. And yes, I know the hybrid feature is a complete waste of money. And it doesn't have auto lights, auto dimming rearview mirror or memory seats. And the passenger gets a manual seat. And no spare tire (patching kit and compressor instead). But it sips gas and is fast and a heck of a lot nicer then the Prius. "NJ Vike" > wrote in message link.net... > Art, > > On another matter. Does the 300M give you any back support? I'm thinking > of selling mine since my back is killing me. > > Ken > > > "Art" > wrote in message > news >> Fascinating but you forgot to post the part where both automakers gave up >> in their attacks on CU and both cars sucked compared to increased >> competition and that is why they stopped selling. >> >> >> "Marc" > wrote in message >> .. . >>> Consumer Reports is very prone to letting their agendas override their >>> objectivity. >>> >>> >>> >>> Suzuki suffered major difficulties with its image after Consumer Reports >>> magazine's famous, or infamous, claim in 1988 that the Samurai was prone >>> to >>> rollover. The Suzuki Samurai small SUV enjoyed enormous popularity and >>> sales in the mid-1980's until the CR article was published. >>> >>> >>> >>> Consumer Reports had stated that the Samurai "easily rolls over in >>> turns" >>> and that it was "likely to roll over during a maneuver that could be >>> demanded of any car at any time". U.S. government studies actually >>> showed >>> that the Samurai's rate of rollover was similar to that of other SUV's. >>> Sales plunged and Suzuki eventually stopped production of the Samurai in >>> 1995. >>> >>> >>> >>> Suzuki filed lawsuit in 1996 for product disparagement after Consumer >>> Reports magazine rehashed the old test results in yet another article. >>> Suzuki had pursued their $60 billion lawsuit ever since 1996 in the >>> position >>> that the Consumer Reports "not acceptable" rating had caused sales to >>> plunge, tarnished the company's image and set back the company's brand >>> in >>> the US for a decade. Suzuki went so far as to specifically claim that >>> Consumer's Union had rigged the tests against the popular SUV to create >>> media attention in the midst of their fund-raising drive. >>> >>> >>> >>> A trial judge threw out the suit, but the 9th District Court of Appeals >>> later reinstated it on the grounds that Suzuki had presented enough >>> evidence >>> that CU published knowing falsehoods in their article, and the Supreme >>> Court >>> in 2003 refused to prevent the case from going forward. Suzuki's >>> managing >>> counsel had stated that "The evidence will clearly show that, rather >>> than >>> driving all the vehicles the same, CU singled out the Suzuki Samurai >>> and, >>> through stunt-like steering, intentionally made it tip up -- all to >>> support >>> CU's pre-determined story line, only after the Samurai received the best >>> possible rating on the test CU had used for the past 15 years." The >>> court >>> noted that at the time CU initially criticized the Samurai, CU had just >>> purchased a new building and therefore "needed to boost its revenues to >>> complete its capital campaign." The court concluded that this "evidence >>> of >>> financial motive dovetails with the evidence of test-rigging." >>> >>> >>> >>> In a similar lawsuit by Isuzu against CU regarding their Isuzu Trooper >>> receiving a similar "not acceptable" rating, Isuzu provided evidence >>> that >>> the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and its British >>> counterpart rejected Consumer Reports' rollover tests as unscientific on >>> the >>> grounds that they were subject to driver influence. Isuzu was charging >>> that >>> the consumer group falsified certain test data and concealed other >>> information. It charged also that a magazine staffer began writing the >>> article before the tests were concluded. >>> >>> >>> >>> Just before the 1996 Trooper tests, the NHTSA rejected the consumer >>> organization's petition to establish rollover standards. Isuzu's lawyers >>> say >>> the article's timing was more than coincidence; it was an effort to >>> generate >>> media attention for CU and their latest cause. >>> >>> >>> >>> Consumer Reports counsel tried to turn the case into a First Amendment >>> issue, essentially intimating that even if the tests were biased, they >>> should be protected from a product disparagement claim because the >>> organization is part of the press, and asserting that they should have >>> received a summary judgment on that basis. CU finally compromised their >>> statement in a settlement late last year to clarify that the rollover >>> tendency was only seen in their somewhat extreme emergency rollover test >>> and >>> was not applicable to routine driving conditions. >>> >>> >>> >>> Consumer's Union added that "CU's use of the adverb 'easily' may have >>> been >>> misconstrued and misunderstood" and that "CU never intended to state or >>> imply that the Samurai easily rolls over in routine driving conditions." >>> >>> >>> >>> "Daniel J. Stern" > wrote in message >>> n.umich.edu... >>>> On Thu, 29 Dec 2005, Richard wrote: >>>> >>>> > The recent issue tests after market bulbs, including the GE NightHawk >>>> > and the Sylvania bulbs. Their results were inconsistent depending >>>> > upon >>>> > the car lamp in question. >>>> >>>> They also just took the bulb makers' word regarding DOT compliance >>>> ("All >>>> the tested bulbs claim DOT compliance") without checking -- shame on >>>> them. >>>> Had they checked, they'd likely have found that the APC Plasma Ultra >>>> White >>>> bulbs are very definitely *not* compliant in several important ways. >>>> >>>> They've made a lot of noise regarding their newly implemented headlamp >>>> "tests" over the last year or so. Typical CR selfgratulatory crapola. I >>>> won't bother rehashing the exact reasons why their headlamp "tests" are >>>> largely bogus; I've posted the analysis before in this forum and >>>> others. >>>> It's not just a question of "Dan Stern doesn't agree with Consumer >>>> Reports"; it's much more serious than that: Many of their assumptions >>>> and >>>> recommendations regarding headlamps are just plain nonsense fabricated >>>> out >>>> of the same whole cloth that allows CR to consider themselves expert in >>>> everything from red wine to oil filters to washing machines to >>>> insurance >>>> policies. >>>> >>>> DS >>> >>> >> >> > > |
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