I'm not using a K&N air filter ever again...

On Mon, 12 Sep 2005, wrote:

> But then agin, people are still buying that "Tornado" off television
> promising a ridiculous 20% more HP. Did anyone see the "Mythbusters"
> test on that device?

It's sad that Mythbusters would *have* to do a show on it. But then, they
stopped teaching science, logic and critical thinking in US schools long
ago.

On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 11:04:22 -0400, "Richard" <rfeirste at
nycap.rr.com> wrote:

>GM just announced that the oil from an over-oiled, after market, air filter
>is causing computer sensor problems and that they will no longer cover such
>problems under their warranty.
>
>Richard.
>
Over Oiled is the problem there - not the fact they are aftermarket,
or re-usable, or even oiled.

Daniel J. Stern wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Sep 2005, wrote:
>
> > But then agin, people are still buying that "Tornado" off television
> > promising a ridiculous 20% more HP. Did anyone see the "Mythbusters"
> > test on that device?
>
> It's sad that Mythbusters would *have* to do a show on it. But then, they
> stopped teaching science, logic and critical thinking in US schools long
> ago.

I know! The documented HP improvements on all cars, boats, planes,
and bicycles -- thanks to the Tornado -- is pure fact, not myth. It
should have been disproven on a show called Factbusters.

To be fair, *any* power/efficiency improvement resulting from the
installation of a remarketed TurbieTwist hair care product is pretty
astounding.

Toyota MDT in MO

"Daniel J. Stern" > writes:

>It's sad that Mythbusters would *have* to do a show on it. But then, they
>stopped teaching science, logic and critical thinking in US schools long
>ago.

Have primary schools ever actually taught science, as in applying the
scientific method? I remember my "science" classes being little more than
nature & technology classes. I participated in a science fair in middle
school, but aside from that, the only pre-college exposure I got to the
scientific method that I can recall came when studying for standardized tests.
I find that to be a rather sad state of affairs.

you could be the m.c.

"Daniel J. Stern" wrote:

> On Sun, 11 Sep 2005, Steve W. wrote:
>
> > this is what happens when you believe the K&N hype and try to save some
> > money by believing how great the K&N is. Then you test them and find out
> > that it is a big load of crap. You may think it sounds silly but it is a
> > true story of someone doing a real field test instead of listening to
> > the "engineers" that are at K&N.
>
> I think the "engineers" at K&N should get together with the "engineers" at
> Scamsoil, Splitfire and whoever owns Slick-50 this month. The lot of them
> could have a big ol' time. I bet the fish stories would be terrific. They
> could form a social group for pretend-engineers whose best talents lie in
> lying. They could call it SEMA, perhaps.

I think you misunderstood me. The fellow who was supposedly in charge
of an operation that used $30,000 air filters a week was going by what
he heard from ads or even engineers at the K&N company itself? That
sounded patently absurd or tremendously incompetent. Come on, if he
had any engineering or scientific or any technical background, he would
understand "bias." Bias occurs all the time, regardless of the haloes
around even so-called doctors or scientists [see huge problems with FDA
and NIH]. If they are working for the company, you take their
statements with a huge grain of salt as self-serving. I find it
difficult to believe someone would make a huge business decision based
on a company that is selling the product. He could at least ask the
guys next door or independent mechanics or independent labs or even the
labs where he had the oil analyzed. They probably knew about K&N
filters since they were doing the analysis of the oil in the first
place.

" > writes:

> I think you misunderstood me. The fellow who was supposedly in charge
> of an operation that used $30,000 air filters a week was going by what
> he heard from ads or even engineers at the K&N company itself? That
> sounded patently absurd or tremendously incompetent. Come on, if he

Reread the report. Based on hearsay, he felt it was worth testing the
K&N. They conducted a test; K&N flunked. The only decision they made
based on the ads was to conduct a study and see if it was true; for
the kind of money he's talking about, that's the only responsible
thing to do.
--
Joseph J. Pfeiffer, Jr., Ph.D. Phone -- (505) 646-1605
Department of Computer Science FAX -- (505) 646-1002
New Mexico State University http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~pfeiffer
skype: jjpfeifferjr

> wrote:
>I think you misunderstood me. The fellow who was supposedly in charge
>of an operation that used $30,000 air filters a week was going by what
>he heard from ads or even engineers at the K&N company itself? That
>sounded patently absurd or tremendously incompetent.

I hate to say it, but that degree of incompetence seems to be about the
rule at a lot of industrial operations. The guys who make the decisions
have degrees in business rather than engineering, and the end result are
things like this. I saw a dye plant recently where they didn't have a
single qualified chemist on staff, just people who followed recipes.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

wrote:


>
> Now, as far as the K&N filter oiling is concerned, I wonder if the K&N
> filter I got from Autozone came with too much oil or something. After
> running it for some time, it got splashed all in the air filter housing
> and Throttle Body and on plenum (air box to Throttle Body) gasket.
>
Yes, it was over-oiled.

> Hmmm...makes me wonder if K&N thinks that their filter really needs
> help, so they keep trying to advertise it and sell it.

Well, its their job to sell filters, I guess. And their filters do have
a place in offroading and racing. Just not in street cars, and never
under the assumption that they actually CLEAN the air as well as or
better than OEM-type filters.

Falls under the "no such thing as a free lunch" clause.

>
> Wonder what kind of manufacturing standards this K&N distributor had?


What makes you think the distributor has anything to do with K&N quality
control?

Everybody on the group has told you that the K&N concept, product,
engineering,
and quality are pretty questionable.