Engines that are prone to sludge

> wrote in message
...
Yeah, I remember years ago a hidden camera news program caught a shop
just wiped clean the oil filter and claimed to have completed an oil
change.

Maybe that's what some Toyota dealers do anyway, because some of these
sludged up engines were maintained at the dealers.\

Changing the oil filter frequently will do a lot of good for your engine,
but reducing sludge by way of filter is minimal. The main sludge culprets
are poor ventilation, condensation plus oil = Sludge. Keeping your engine
Positive crankcase ventalition system open and clean will reduce sludge
conciderably.
Diddly

wrote:
> Sure, condensation in the crankcase does a lot of harm. And driving
> highways also helps the battery charge.

As well as get the moisture out of the exhaust. Exhaust system
materials have improved greatly over the years, but not too many years
ago, vehicles driven on lots of short trips will need most of their
downstream exhaust components replaced every 2 to 3 years, whereas the
same car driven mostly highway would go with the original exhaust system
for most of its life. It's not unusual for today's exhaust systems to
last the life of the vehicle (250+k miles) in mostly highway use.

> On Jul 27, 5:48 am, "Dioclese" <NONE> wrote:
>> Reminds me of an older gentleman my daughter introduced me to a couple of
>> years ago, her next door neighbor. He has an old Chevy Nova he keeps mostly
>> parked in his driveway. Drives maybe 1/2 mile one way on his weekly trips
>> to the grocery store or what not. He complained about his carburetor
>> needing a rebuild recently due to buildup as he seldom drives. Son-in-law
>> did the rebuild. He found the plugs a bit fouled, but not too bad. The
>> oil, only a few months old was very thick and very black. He pulled a valve
>> cover, and found that cream colored greasy substance on it, water
>> contamination. No such in the oil itself or similar indication in the
>> antifreeze. After futher investigation, we all came to the same conclusion.
>> The lack of continuous driving time was causing the oil to foul as the rings
>> are probably not set any more. The creamy substance at the inside top of
>> the valve covers was due to dew buildup as the mornings are terribly moist
>> sometimes, and the engine never got hot enough to burn out the water.
>>
>> Its an extreme exaggeration of what can happen to current vehicles (which
>> run hotter/faster nowadays), but, it drives home a point about the need to
>> put adequate highway miles to keep the contaminants down in the oil.
>>
>> --
>> Dave


--
Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

rob wrote:
> oh yeah....some quick change places deal in so much volume that they have an
> acceptable loss policy of 1 engine, 1 trans, or 1 differential...per month.

I wasn't aware of that, but that would be due to things like forgetting
to refill after the drain, or refilling without the drain plug having
been re-installed - on two separate occasions, I was in a local shop
getting some pricing, and another person was in there getting a quote
for a new engine due to the local WalMart having left the oil drain plug
out.

There would of course not be the immediate or even detectable effect of
simply charging the customer for work not done, which seems to be the
policy of *many* places as in "hey - what the customer doesn't know
won't hurt them - if the customer doesn't know, what's the harm?"
out-right fraud mentality.

> "Bill Putney" > wrote in message
> ...
>> rob wrote:
>>> Toyota news
>>>
>>> http://yotarepair.com/News_release.html
>>>
>>> http://yotarepair.com/Sludge_Zone.html
>>>
>>> http://yotarepair.com/My%20Opinion.html
>> Interesting links.
>>
>> One thing that I failed to mention previously is the fraudulent practices
>> by many quick oil change places - and yes - even some dealers - on oil and
>> filter changes. By that I mean charging the customer for it, documenting
>> that it was done, yet not actually doing the work. There are TV news team
>> exposes on some of the quick oil change places. And I caught the local
>> Chrysler dealer doing that on my elderly mother on the very first oil and
>> filter change on her brand new Concorde. I also discovered a Mopar filter
>> (complete with rust around the unpainted outer part of the base) on a Jeep
>> Cherokee that my daughter bought for which the previous owner had
>> documentation that the oil and filter had been religiously changed at a
>> local quick change place since it was new every 3000 miles. So - based on
>> personal experience, you'd have a hard time convincing me that this is not
>> arguably a common practice.
>>
>> I have to wonder how much that factor plays into this issue. Certainly it
>> would for engines who were more prone to sludging than others that were
>> more tolerant of extended/missed oil changes.
>>
>> Bill Putney
>> (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address
>> with the letter 'x')
>
>


--
Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

On Jul 24, 11:59 pm, Built_Well > wrote:
> This is a list from Amsoil of engines prone to sludge.
>
> [quote] "The engines identified in the following chart have
> been reported to be prone to sludge. [End quote]
>
> ^^^^^^^^^^
>snip
>
> There's a second engine for Lexus/Toyota:
>
> 3.0 L V6 ( 1MZ ) [Actually "IMZ" appears, but the "I"
> must be a misprint. It's gotta be 1MZ.]
>
> Models and years:
>
snip
> 1998-2002 Sienna
snip
>
Oh, yeah. I've got one of these with 215,000 miles on it. It must be
that they sludge with Amsoil but I have no problems 'cause I use API
certified Mobil 1 every 7500 - 10000 miles.

"Bill Putney" > wrote in message
...
> wrote:
>> Sure, condensation in the crankcase does a lot of harm. And driving
>> highways also helps the battery charge.
>
> As well as get the moisture out of the exhaust. Exhaust system materials
> have improved greatly over the years, but not too many years ago, vehicles
> driven on lots of short trips will need most of their downstream exhaust
> components replaced every 2 to 3 years, whereas the same car driven mostly
> highway would go with the original exhaust system for most of its life.
> It's not unusual for today's exhaust systems to last the life of the
> vehicle (250+k miles) in mostly highway use.

Exhause systems really do outlast the old ones substantially. Many of us
tend to
forget how they used to rust out. Improved materials have helped this
problem
a lot. (Wonder how the manufacturers allowed this to happen :>)

In article >,
Bill Putney > wrote:

> One thing that I failed to mention previously is the fraudulent
> practices by many quick oil change places - and yes - even some dealers
> - on oil and filter changes. By that I mean charging the customer for
> it, documenting that it was done, yet not actually doing the work.
> There are TV news team exposes on some of the quick oil change places.
> And I caught the local Chrysler dealer doing that on my elderly mother
> on the very first oil and filter change on her brand new Concorde. I
> also discovered a Mopar filter (complete with rust around the unpainted
> outer part of the base) on a Jeep Cherokee that my daughter bought for
> which the previous owner had documentation that the oil and filter had
> been religiously changed at a local quick change place since it was new
> every 3000 miles. So - based on personal experience, you'd have a hard
> time convincing me that this is not arguably a common practice.
>
> I have to wonder how much that factor plays into this issue. Certainly
> it would for engines who were more prone to sludging than others that
> were more tolerant of extended/missed oil changes.

Before a change I scratch the oil filter and look at the oil color.
After I can quickly observe if the job was done.
Once when buying a new Chrysler I marked it's dead battery so I would
know if they changed it as requested in the deal. They didn't, but did
after I caught them cheating.

It's unbelievable that a Chrysler dealer would practice this oil change
fraud, but there are cheats everywhere.
I no longer have my Chrysler dealer do my regular oil changes, they
scared me with their overly strong desire to sell me a replacement for
my '95 Concorde that runs like a top.

"Some O" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> Bill Putney > wrote:
>
>> One thing that I failed to mention previously is the fraudulent
>> practices by many quick oil change places - and yes - even some dealers
>> - on oil and filter changes. By that I mean charging the customer for
>> it, documenting that it was done, yet not actually doing the work.
>> There are TV news team exposes on some of the quick oil change places.
>> And I caught the local Chrysler dealer doing that on my elderly mother
>> on the very first oil and filter change on her brand new Concorde. I
>> also discovered a Mopar filter (complete with rust around the unpainted
>> outer part of the base) on a Jeep Cherokee that my daughter bought for
>> which the previous owner had documentation that the oil and filter had
>> been religiously changed at a local quick change place since it was new
>> every 3000 miles. So - based on personal experience, you'd have a hard
>> time convincing me that this is not arguably a common practice.
>>
>> I have to wonder how much that factor plays into this issue. Certainly
>> it would for engines who were more prone to sludging than others that
>> were more tolerant of extended/missed oil changes.
>
> Before a change I scratch the oil filter and look at the oil color.
> After I can quickly observe if the job was done.
> Once when buying a new Chrysler I marked it's dead battery so I would
> know if they changed it as requested in the deal. They didn't, but did
> after I caught them cheating.
>
> It's unbelievable that a Chrysler dealer would practice this oil change
> fraud, but there are cheats everywhere.
> I no longer have my Chrysler dealer do my regular oil changes, they
> scared me with their overly strong desire to sell me a replacement for
> my '95 Concorde that runs like a top.


hey.gotta love the 90s concordes. my old 94 was one of the most dependable
cars I've ever had.

Here is a post from a RX300 owner. This and 3 others on the lot had
sludged up engines and oil was changed by LEXUS every 4000 miles !!!
These engine designs stink.

lexusownersclub.com
IBuild
Mar 4 2007, 11:19 AM
Car Model:2000 rx-300
Location:south carolina

Thanks, I have the car at the lexus dealer and they did a inspection
and informed me that the engine was locked-up,due to oil sludge. I
summited all my oil change recepts and my lexus service recepts(every
4000 miles). The service manager informed me that he had to turn in
all of findings to the Atlanta office,and they would decide on the
repair. The service manager told me from what he saw there sould not
be any reason why Lexus will not replace the engine at thier cost. The
down side of this is that he also told me that the repair would take
48 to 60 days and lexus would not allow me a rental car for use during
the repair, i could rent a car and after the repair i could turn in
the cost and Lexus may or may not reinburst me for the rental. There
is suppose to be 3 other rx-300's at the same dealership waiting for
parts ahead of me for the same repairs. If ANYONE has any suggestions
that may help me through this please let me know!!!!!!!!





On Jul 24, 8:59*pm, Built_Well > wrote:
> For Lexus/Toyota:
>
> 2.2 L 4-cylinder ( 5S-FE )
>
> Models and years:
>
> 1997-2001 Camry
> 1997-2001 Solara
> 1997-1999 Celica
>
> New Warranty Coverage: 8 years / unlimited mileage.
>
> Oil drain intervals for warranty coverage:
>
> 5,000 miles/four months (severe)
> 7,500 miles (normal)
>
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> There's a second engine for Lexus/Toyota:
>
> 3.0 L V6 ( 1MZ ) [Actually "IMZ" appears, but the "I"
> * * * * * * * * * must be a misprint. *It's gotta be 1MZ.]
>
> Models and years:
>
> 1997-2002 Camry
> 1999-2002 Solara
> 1998-2002 Sienna
> 1997-2002 Avalon
> 2001-2002 Highlander
>
> Same warranty coverage and oil drain intervals as the first
> Toyota engine above.
>
> Sidenote: The 3.0 Liter V6 1MZ engine was used in some 2006
> Camrys, so I don't know why the '06 model year doesn't appear
> in the list above. *The Amsoil document is copyrighted 2008,
> so it shouldn't be a matter of old information. *Was the sludge
> problem somehow fixed in the 1MZ after 2002 ?
>

Makes you wonder if the oil was really being changed at that particular
dealership? They should be able to compare the problems on cars
serviced at that dealership with cars serviced at other dealerships and
come to conclusions about that pretty readily. If engines are truly
failing like that when being serviced regularly, then - yeah - it is a
poor design. But I have to wonder about the service that they really
got. Unbelievable how much credence these manufacturers are putting in
paper documentation.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')


wrote:
> Here is a post from a RX300 owner. This and 3 others on the lot had
> sludged up engines and oil was changed by LEXUS every 4000 miles !!!
> These engine designs stink.
>
> lexusownersclub.com
> IBuild
> Mar 4 2007, 11:19 AM
> Car Model:2000 rx-300
> Location:south carolina
>
> Thanks, I have the car at the lexus dealer and they did a inspection
> and informed me that the engine was locked-up,due to oil sludge. I
> summited all my oil change recepts and my lexus service recepts(every
> 4000 miles). The service manager informed me that he had to turn in
> all of findings to the Atlanta office,and they would decide on the
> repair. The service manager told me from what he saw there sould not
> be any reason why Lexus will not replace the engine at thier cost. The
> down side of this is that he also told me that the repair would take
> 48 to 60 days and lexus would not allow me a rental car for use during
> the repair, i could rent a car and after the repair i could turn in
> the cost and Lexus may or may not reinburst me for the rental. There
> is suppose to be 3 other rx-300's at the same dealership waiting for
> parts ahead of me for the same repairs. If ANYONE has any suggestions
> that may help me through this please let me know!!!!!!!!
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jul 24, 8:59 pm, Built_Well > wrote:
>> For Lexus/Toyota:
>>
>> 2.2 L 4-cylinder ( 5S-FE )
>>
>> Models and years:
>>
>> 1997-2001 Camry
>> 1997-2001 Solara
>> 1997-1999 Celica
>>
>> New Warranty Coverage: 8 years / unlimited mileage.
>>
>> Oil drain intervals for warranty coverage:
>>
>> 5,000 miles/four months (severe)
>> 7,500 miles (normal)
>>
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>
>> There's a second engine for Lexus/Toyota:
>>
>> 3.0 L V6 ( 1MZ ) [Actually "IMZ" appears, but the "I"
>> must be a misprint. It's gotta be 1MZ.]
>>
>> Models and years:
>>
>> 1997-2002 Camry
>> 1999-2002 Solara
>> 1998-2002 Sienna
>> 1997-2002 Avalon
>> 2001-2002 Highlander
>>
>> Same warranty coverage and oil drain intervals as the first
>> Toyota engine above.
>>
>> Sidenote: The 3.0 Liter V6 1MZ engine was used in some 2006
>> Camrys, so I don't know why the '06 model year doesn't appear
>> in the list above. The Amsoil document is copyrighted 2008,
>> so it shouldn't be a matter of old information. Was the sludge
>> problem somehow fixed in the 1MZ after 2002 ?
>>

Bill, I used to be a Rep for Chrysler and back in 2003 we had a meeting with
Walker exhaust. Talking with the engineer, he stated that because the
exhaust system is aluminized or treated with stainless, people think there
exhaust last the lifetime of vehicle. He then said the actually engineer
them to onliy a liife of 80,000 miles. He said the mufflers are shot on the
inside. They study the used exhaust by buying them at scrap yards. Good- old
Tenneco. By the way. Chrysler determined the PVC system was causing a sludge
condition, and redesigned it in the later 2.7. I think it was in 02 or 03.

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