I'm not using a K&N air filter ever again...

Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
> " > writes:
>
> > I think you misunderstood me. The fellow who was supposedly in charge
> > of an operation that used $30,000 air filters a week was going by what
> > he heard from ads or even engineers at the K&N company itself? That
> > sounded patently absurd or tremendously incompetent. Come on, if he
>
> Reread the report. Based on hearsay, he felt it was worth testing the
> K&N. They conducted a test; K&N flunked. The only decision they made
> based on the ads was to conduct a study and see if it was true; for
> the kind of money he's talking about, that's the only responsible
> thing to do.

Au contraire, it was not responsible, highly irresponsible for a
director of operations to base a large test on hearsay. Could he not
take one truck and one car for one week or two weeks at first? I used
to work in the desert with large machinery, a mining operation. There's
a body of experience and previous literature on dust, dirt, and big
earth movers. This brings back a memory at the end of the day they'd
spray down the machines with a fine mist. It was not plain water but a
type of oil? Kerosene?

In any case, it's good he did a test. I was just playing skeptic that
the story was true in the first place. Maybe part of it. Maybe he did
just do the company car and one truck and being from maybe Texas, the
story gets, uh, embellished...

" > writes:
>
> In any case, it's good he did a test. I was just playing skeptic that
> the story was true in the first place. Maybe part of it. Maybe he did
> just do the company car and one truck and being from maybe Texas, the
> story gets, uh, embellished...

Yeah, there is room to doubt the story really happened. I'd want a
larger sample set than just one vehicle, though.
--
Joseph J. Pfeiffer, Jr., Ph.D. Phone -- (505) 646-1605
Department of Computer Science FAX -- (505) 646-1002
New Mexico State University http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~pfeiffer
skype: jjpfeifferjr

I know! The documented HP improvements on all cars, boats, planes,
and bicycles -- thanks to the Tornado -- is pure fact, not myth. It
should have been disproven on a show called Factbusters.

=======

Are you saying you believe that ridiculous hype? I can't tell what
you;re trying to say.

Ridiculous it is that anyone thinks that that turbulence or tornado
spin
is going to hold after passing over the throttle plate. Even if it
did it
woudn't result in anyting because most direct injection cars and EVEN
carburated for that matter get much of their mixture from the cyl
intake
draw not pre-intake.

What it ends up doing is DECREASING HP because it blocks a
part of the intake.

MB

from what i can tell, you are both in agreement... that
the tornado thingie is bogus...

irax.


wrote:
> I know! The documented HP improvements on all cars, boats, planes,
> and bicycles -- thanks to the Tornado -- is pure fact, not myth. It
> should have been disproven on a show called Factbusters.
>
> =======
>
> Are you saying you believe that ridiculous hype? I can't tell what
> you;re trying to say.
>
> Ridiculous it is that anyone thinks that that turbulence or tornado
> spin
> is going to hold after passing over the throttle plate. Even if it
> did it
> woudn't result in anyting because most direct injection cars and EVEN
> carburated for that matter get much of their mixture from the cyl
> intake
> draw not pre-intake.
>
> What it ends up doing is DECREASING HP because it blocks a
> part of the intake.
>
> MB
>

On the www.bobistheoilguy.com website, there are many comments about K&N
filters resulting in higher silica values in the engine oil of the
vehicles they are installed in--consistently. There are also some other
air filter tests (and explanation of the SAE test "dirt particles") too.

Before K&N really rose to fame, they were more of a specialized air
filter company of sorts, as their filters cost a good bit more than
normal paper filters and not just everybody sold them. Then came the
Mount St. Helen's situation and the volcanic ash was clogging every air
filter that was not a K&N filter element. This got to be one of their
earlier marketing subjects, with appropriate endorsements from emergency
vehicle users who had to have vehicles in service all the time.

In the earlier times, it was said that the K&N element would not only
filter the air, but "straighten" it as it went through the filter and
into the carburetor throttle bores. Decreased turbulence and a smoother
air flow should result in more consistent metering and performance from
the engine--in a modern vehicle, this might not be the great attribute
it once was.

As for the factory oiling of K&N filters . . . it might be that they are
putting more red oil in them than they used to. If there's too much you
can always get the "recharge" kit and wash and clean and reoil the
element.

One curious thing about K&Ns is that their flow capacity does not drop
off with "dirt" in the element. In some tests, they actually flowed
better when "dirty" than when new--as I recall that report.

In a later 1970s car magazine air filter test, done by David Vizard (in
his earlier days). The test filter housing was the open element
Corvette air filter (i.e., same as 302 Z-28), which has been copied by
the aftermarket (but not the deeply recessed base plate that allows for
the lower hood clearance issues of the Corvette over the Holley carb it
was mounted to--the factory filter sits 1" lower than the more common
aftermarket look-alikes). The K&N flowed the highest, followed a little
ways back by a Motorcraft filter for that application. "Poor man's
K&N"??? The AC-Delco filter (which also came with a light oil sprayed
on it), was mid-pack.

I think there are some industrial filter "cleaners" that recycle air
filter elements by reverse flow cleaning them somehow. I don't know how
they do what they do or how much it extends service life, just that I
think I've heard of some fleets using those services.

Enjoy!

C-BODY

wrote:

> ...Before K&N really rose to fame, they were more of a specialized air
> filter company of sorts, as their filters cost a good bit more than
> normal paper filters and not just everybody sold them. Then came the
> Mount St. Helen's situation and the volcanic ash was clogging every air
> filter that was not a K&N filter element. This got to be one of their
> earlier marketing subjects, with appropriate endorsements from emergency
> vehicle users who had to have vehicles in service all the time.

I guess that means that if I ever move to an area with a volacano, I
might get a K&N.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')