'93 Grand Voyager crank, no start

Treeline wrote:

> ...I wonder if I should buy the shop manual on CD and then make a
> copy for myself and then sell the original? Maybe get back half
> of what I paid for it. Don't know. I like thumbing through the
> hard back but having a CD and then what? Carry around a bulky
> manual that will get dog-eared or CD's and then have to find
> computers and printers if I am on the road?
>
> So again, thanks for your input, Ted, you led me to many sources
> I had not considered.

There is one other option that I do not believe was mentioned: You can
get an on-line subscription at www.alldata.com for your specific
vehicle. It includes on-line, real-time access to information right out
of the FSM - schematics, procedures, and all. Plus it includes on-line
access to complete TSB's for your vehicle.

I can't say that the complete cover-to-cover FSM is accessible thru
alldata, but I can say that on the two vehicles that I have
subscriptions for (and one of which I also have the hard-copy DC FSM for
comparison), I have *never* found a section not there when I looked for
it (sometimes it has taken a few minutes to find the section I need -
it's not organized or categorized like the FSM is). I can say with
confidence that the schematics are all there - again, the ones right out
of the FSM - none of the "typical" (i.e., error-filled and useless) crap
that you find in aftermarket manuals.

This would have some of the downsides of the CD (as you mentioned,
there's something to be said for flipping thru a hard copy), but the
price is right, especially for a short- or intermediate-term need: $25
for first vehicle or first year. $15 for any additional vehicles or
annual renewals.

If interested, you would have to check if they go back to '94, but if
they do, this would be another option for you.

Disclaimer: I have no affiliation with alldata other than being a paying
customer. I have nothing to gain by recommending their products.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
adddress with the letter 'x')


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Was this problem ever resolved ? Not the one concerning the manuals, but
the 'crank, no start' problem ?

thanks,
Nick

"Treeline" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Ted Mittelstaedt" > wrote in message
> ...
>> > Are you suggesting I shell out for a FSM for a vehicle that I
> do not own?
>>
>> You won't even drop $20 into helping your father, the man who
> bore and
>> raised you? What an ungrateful brat! :-)
>
> I've been scanning Ebay. $20 just buys the owner's manual most
> times. I have yet to see a FSM. I have seen a powertrain FSM for
> a 3.3l propane drivetrain or something. But I use gasoline. I
> have never seen a plain vanilla FSM for the 1994 Voyager on eBay
> but I'll keep looking since you said they come up.
>
> Hemmings, 3/4's, might be good.
>
> It's around $65 for a '94 Voyager. Not too bad for brand new,
> including shipping. If Hemmings has it for $45, that's fine.
>
> Last time I called the dealer, he would NOT EVEN ORDER the FSM.
> Said to use the 800 number as they do! And I had a discount
> coupon too, rats.
>
> Couple years ago, someone was selling CD's of the FSM using PDF
> files, but that's good and bad. I guess he was stopped because of
> copyright laws on eBay. What was good, you could print out the
> pages and only get those dirty. What was bad was the lack of
> index but there's software now that will index PDF files, even
> the captions of the pictures.
>
>




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Was this problem ever resolved ? Not the one concerning the manuals, but
the 'crank, no start' problem ?

thanks,
Nick

"Treeline" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Ted Mittelstaedt" > wrote in message
> ...
>> > Are you suggesting I shell out for a FSM for a vehicle that I
> do not own?
>>
>> You won't even drop $20 into helping your father, the man who
> bore and
>> raised you? What an ungrateful brat! :-)
>
> I've been scanning Ebay. $20 just buys the owner's manual most
> times. I have yet to see a FSM. I have seen a powertrain FSM for
> a 3.3l propane drivetrain or something. But I use gasoline. I
> have never seen a plain vanilla FSM for the 1994 Voyager on eBay
> but I'll keep looking since you said they come up.
>
> Hemmings, 3/4's, might be good.
>
> It's around $65 for a '94 Voyager. Not too bad for brand new,
> including shipping. If Hemmings has it for $45, that's fine.
>
> Last time I called the dealer, he would NOT EVEN ORDER the FSM.
> Said to use the 800 number as they do! And I had a discount
> coupon too, rats.
>
> Couple years ago, someone was selling CD's of the FSM using PDF
> files, but that's good and bad. I guess he was stopped because of
> copyright laws on eBay. What was good, you could print out the
> pages and only get those dirty. What was bad was the lack of
> index but there's software now that will index PDF files, even
> the captions of the pictures.
>
>




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"Bill Putney" > wrote in message ...
> I can't say that the complete cover-to-cover FSM is accessible thru
> alldata, but I can say that on the two vehicles that I have
> subscriptions for (and one of which I also have the hard-copy DC FSM for
> comparison), I have *never* found a section not there when I looked for
> it (sometimes it has taken a few minutes to find the section I need -
> it's not organized or categorized like the FSM is). I can say with
> confidence that the schematics are all there - again, the ones right out
> of the FSM - none of the "typical" (i.e., error-filled and useless) crap
> that you find in aftermarket manuals.
>
> This would have some of the downsides of the CD (as you mentioned,
> there's something to be said for flipping thru a hard copy), but the
> price is right, especially for a short- or intermediate-term need: $25
> for first vehicle or first year. $15 for any additional vehicles or
> annual renewals.
>
> If interested, you would have to check if they go back to '94, but if
> they do, this would be another option for you.
> Bill Putney
> (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
> adddress with the letter 'x')

Thanks, good points. Missed this post back then.

"Ted Mittelstaedt" > wrote in message
...

> > I've been scanning Ebay. $20 just buys the owner's manual most
> > times. I have yet to see a FSM.
>
> I gave you a URL of one on Ebay a week ago. Nobody bought it so
> the seller relisted it. Here it is again:
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=7937042402
>
> Keep in mind that we are so close to Christmas that sales of most
> stuff like this on Ebay are dropping off. Most experienced Ebay
> sellers know this and have stopped listing. Listing will pick up again
> the first few weeks of January.

Not yet. Well there was one but I missed it.


> > I have seen a powertrain FSM for
> > a 3.3l propane drivetrain or something. But I use gasoline. I
> > have never seen a plain vanilla FSM for the 1994 Voyager on eBay
> > but I'll keep looking since you said they come up.
> >
>
> Uh, your post said 1993, not 1994.
>
> You need to search for the following:
>
> "1994 Chrysler manual"
> "94 chrysler manual"
> "1994 dodge manual"
> "94 dodge manual"
>
> I didn't see one when I just checked.
>
> The 1993 manual may be close enough to get you by, and if you later buy a
> 1994
> one you can resell the 1993 on Ebay.
>
> Besides the actual manual there are a number of subsidary diagnostics books
> like the following:
>
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...spagename=WD1V
>
> And yes, if you need something fast, you can get one of these:
>
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tego ry=34218
>
> I suspect these are illegal copies of the dealership CD's.
>
> > Hemmings, 3/4's, might be good.
> >
> > It's around $65 for a '94 Voyager. Not too bad for brand new,
> > including shipping. If Hemmings has it for $45, that's fine.
> >
>
> Ebay is really the cheapest place for finding a manual, but you will have to
> keep
> checking it. It took me about 4 months to collect all 9 model specific
> Chrysler manuals
> associated with my 1995 T&C when I bought it. And in some cases I had
> to buy a group of 4-5 manuals to get 1 of the ones I wanted out of the
> group,
> I just resold the ones I didn't want back on Ebay.
>
> But I ended up spending under $200 for the entire set. Worth every penny.
>
> The problem with Hemmings is that the people selling things there are in
> it to make a living doing it. So regardless of what they get their manuals
> for - often a few dollars a manual - they sell them for about 70% of the
> cost of a new one. It's just low enough so that if you need a set of
> manuals
> in a hurry that your going to go to the Hemmings sellers before you go
> to the factory, but it's not a deal to write home about.
>
> Ebay is where individuals like you and I go to sell the manuals that we
> bought to work on the car that we just sold off or had towed to the
> junkyard.
> As a result we are quite happy to get 25% of the cost of a new manual -
> which is higher than any Hemmings manual seller would ever pay us.
> The downside is you have to wait. This is one area where it really really
> pays to buy the stuff in advance of when you need it. When your car
> is sitting there broken and needs fixing, the higher-priced places that
> can give it to you immediately are the only places to go.
>
> > Last time I called the dealer, he would NOT EVEN ORDER the FSM.
> > Said to use the 800 number as they do! And I had a discount
> > coupon too, rats.
> >
> > Couple years ago, someone was selling CD's of the FSM using PDF
> > files, but that's good and bad. I guess he was stopped because of
> > copyright laws on eBay.
>
> I don't think so. I know that guy I complained about him a couple times
> myself, because he was literally flooding Ebay with hundreds of variations
> of manual posts. I think he had a CD with about 30 manuals on it and
> he would just advertise it 30 different ways. I think that what did him in
> was he was way too greedy - wanting $29.95 for what was obviously
> a pirated dealership CD - and nobody bought his stuff. He must have run
> up a huge listing bill with Ebay and then not paid it, because Ebay surely
> didn't bother booting him due to my or anyone elses' complaints.
>
> The people pirating the CD manuals nowadays on Ebay are much more
> low key, and they aren't anywhere near as greedy, so I think the Ebay
> community tolerates them as an unavoidable evil, I know I do.
>
> Ted
>
>