Concealed factory / lot damage prior to sale of a "new" 2006 Honda Civic

I just bought a brand new 06 Civic. When I took
the car home I noticed a slight warping on the right
side panel where bumper meets the body.

I contacted the dealer and sent him photos the
next morning. He called and said he checked his
computer records and didn't find any indication of a possible lot
damage/repairs.

I replied, in writing, acknowledging his not finding
any repair records prior to sale and that we were worried
about safety features working properly and would
always like to be informed of possible prior damage/repairs.

The next morning, I got a call, that he had checked
again -- this time with the "service" department and
had INDEED found that there was lot repair/damage
that involved replacing the bumper and a paint job
and he was going to find out more about when at work.

So at the end, we were sold a NEW car, that was damaged
and repaired (with visible signs remaining) prior to sale and
we were not disclosed this info until later. I would NEVER
have bought this car had I known about this possibility.

What are my rights as a consumer here? Repair is not an
option for us since we bought a new car just so we can
have a car we were sure had no prior damage! Can this be
sufficient grounds for demanding an exchange (I only
had the car for 2 days). The evidence is there, and acknowledged
by the dealer. I know Honda is very meticulous about
dealers delivering cars in good shape. Would I be better
off going through Honda and not the dealer? We are at a
loss as to what to do now. Any advice would be greatly
appreciated!

Ben

On 1 Apr 2006 11:53:45 -0800, wrote:

>
>I just bought a brand new 06 Civic. When I took
>the car home I noticed a slight warping on the right
>side panel where bumper meets the body.
>
>I contacted the dealer and sent him photos the
>next morning. He called and said he checked his
>computer records and didn't find any indication of a possible lot
>damage/repairs.
>
>I replied, in writing, acknowledging his not finding
>any repair records prior to sale and that we were worried
>about safety features working properly and would
>always like to be informed of possible prior damage/repairs.
>
>The next morning, I got a call, that he had checked
>again -- this time with the "service" department and
>had INDEED found that there was lot repair/damage
>that involved replacing the bumper and a paint job
>and he was going to find out more about when at work.
>
>So at the end, we were sold a NEW car, that was damaged
>and repaired (with visible signs remaining) prior to sale and
>we were not disclosed this info until later. I would NEVER
>have bought this car had I known about this possibility.
>
>What are my rights as a consumer here? Repair is not an
>option for us since we bought a new car just so we can
>have a car we were sure had no prior damage! Can this be
>sufficient grounds for demanding an exchange (I only
>had the car for 2 days). The evidence is there, and acknowledged
>by the dealer. I know Honda is very meticulous about
>dealers delivering cars in good shape. Would I be better
>off going through Honda and not the dealer? We are at a
>loss as to what to do now. Any advice would be greatly
>appreciated!
>
>Ben

I recall a few years back (maybe 20) that BMW and/or another
manufacturer got in trouble for selling damaged cars as new with no
disclosure. I think you have a strong hand in getting a replacement
car. You should document all this in writing with the dealer and then
with honda if you get resistance.

> wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> I just bought a brand new 06 Civic. When I took
> the car home I noticed a slight warping on the right
> side panel where bumper meets the body.
>
> I contacted the dealer and sent him photos the
> next morning. He called and said he checked his
> computer records and didn't find any indication of a possible lot
> damage/repairs.
>
> I replied, in writing, acknowledging his not finding
> any repair records prior to sale and that we were worried
> about safety features working properly and would
> always like to be informed of possible prior damage/repairs.
>
> The next morning, I got a call, that he had checked
> again -- this time with the "service" department and
> had INDEED found that there was lot repair/damage
> that involved replacing the bumper and a paint job
> and he was going to find out more about when at work.
>
> So at the end, we were sold a NEW car, that was damaged
> and repaired (with visible signs remaining) prior to sale and
> we were not disclosed this info until later. I would NEVER
> have bought this car had I known about this possibility.
>
> What are my rights as a consumer here? Repair is not an
> option for us since we bought a new car just so we can
> have a car we were sure had no prior damage! Can this be
> sufficient grounds for demanding an exchange (I only
> had the car for 2 days). The evidence is there, and acknowledged
> by the dealer. I know Honda is very meticulous about
> dealers delivering cars in good shape. Would I be better
> off going through Honda and not the dealer? We are at a
> loss as to what to do now. Any advice would be greatly
> appreciated!
>
> Ben
>
Surprised you did not check the car out completely before signing anything
or taking possesion of the car. I made that mistake years ago with a new
Vette in 1971 that did not make it more than 5 miles from the dealer before
breaking down. The car was rough when I started it on the lot. I went
through hell trying to get the car fixed.... lawyer told me I was stuck with
it. Ever since then I have stayed away from GM products. I would recommend
you contact Honda Customer Service to tell them about the problem as well as
putting pressure on the dealer. Try and find a good lawyer if all else
fails.

wrote:
> I just bought a brand new 06 Civic. When I took
> the car home I noticed a slight warping on the right
> side panel where bumper meets the body.
>
> I contacted the dealer and sent him photos the
> next morning. He called and said he checked his
> computer records and didn't find any indication of a possible lot
> damage/repairs.
>
> I replied, in writing, acknowledging his not finding
> any repair records prior to sale and that we were worried
> about safety features working properly and would
> always like to be informed of possible prior damage/repairs.
>
> The next morning, I got a call, that he had checked
> again -- this time with the "service" department and
> had INDEED found that there was lot repair/damage
> that involved replacing the bumper and a paint job
> and he was going to find out more about when at work.
>
> So at the end, we were sold a NEW car, that was damaged
> and repaired (with visible signs remaining) prior to sale and
> we were not disclosed this info until later. I would NEVER
> have bought this car had I known about this possibility.
>
> What are my rights as a consumer here? Repair is not an
> option for us since we bought a new car just so we can
> have a car we were sure had no prior damage! Can this be
> sufficient grounds for demanding an exchange (I only
> had the car for 2 days). The evidence is there, and acknowledged
> by the dealer. I know Honda is very meticulous about
> dealers delivering cars in good shape. Would I be better
> off going through Honda and not the dealer? We are at a
> loss as to what to do now. Any advice would be greatly
> appreciated!

Your specific rights will vary depending on the jurisdiction you're in,
but I'd think any reputable dealer would offer an exchange immediately,
especially after discovering that they DID know about AND HAVE A RECORD
OF the damage and repair. The fact that it was damaged, repaired, and
then put on the lot and sold as new without any OBVIOUS indication of
the damage (note on the sales sticker or at least on the paperwork)
should be reason enough for an investigation by the BBB or any number of
Auto Dealers associations.

I'd go back to the dealership right away and ask THE MANAGER (not the
salesman) to replace the car with a new one immediately... if they get
snotty about it, I'd INSIST on a replacement immediately ("You WILL
exchange this!" rather than "Could you exchange this?"), and threaten
legal action... but again, if they're a halfway-reputable dealer, that
shouldn't be necessary.


---
avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
Virus Database (VPS): 0613-2, 03/31/2006
Tested on: 4/1/2006 2:47:11 PM
avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2005 ALWIL Software.
http://www.avast.com

On Sat, 01 Apr 2006 22:47:12 GMT, Matt Ion >
wrote:

wrote:
>> I just bought a brand new 06 Civic. When I took
>> the car home I noticed a slight warping on the right
>> side panel where bumper meets the body.
>>
>> I contacted the dealer and sent him photos the
>> next morning. He called and said he checked his
>> computer records and didn't find any indication of a possible lot
>> damage/repairs.
>>
>> I replied, in writing, acknowledging his not finding
>> any repair records prior to sale and that we were worried
>> about safety features working properly and would
>> always like to be informed of possible prior damage/repairs.
>>
>> The next morning, I got a call, that he had checked
>> again -- this time with the "service" department and
>> had INDEED found that there was lot repair/damage
>> that involved replacing the bumper and a paint job
>> and he was going to find out more about when at work.
>>
>> So at the end, we were sold a NEW car, that was damaged
>> and repaired (with visible signs remaining) prior to sale and
>> we were not disclosed this info until later. I would NEVER
>> have bought this car had I known about this possibility.
>>
>> What are my rights as a consumer here? Repair is not an
>> option for us since we bought a new car just so we can
>> have a car we were sure had no prior damage! Can this be
>> sufficient grounds for demanding an exchange (I only
>> had the car for 2 days). The evidence is there, and acknowledged
>> by the dealer. I know Honda is very meticulous about
>> dealers delivering cars in good shape. Would I be better
>> off going through Honda and not the dealer? We are at a
>> loss as to what to do now. Any advice would be greatly
>> appreciated!
>
>Your specific rights will vary depending on the jurisdiction you're in,
>but I'd think any reputable dealer would offer an exchange immediately,
>especially after discovering that they DID know about AND HAVE A RECORD
>OF the damage and repair. The fact that it was damaged, repaired, and
>then put on the lot and sold as new without any OBVIOUS indication of
>the damage (note on the sales sticker or at least on the paperwork)
>should be reason enough for an investigation by the BBB or any number of
>Auto Dealers associations.
>
>I'd go back to the dealership right away and ask THE MANAGER (not the
>salesman) to replace the car with a new one immediately... if they get
>snotty about it, I'd INSIST on a replacement immediately ("You WILL
>exchange this!" rather than "Could you exchange this?"), and threaten
>legal action... but again, if they're a halfway-reputable dealer, that
>shouldn't be necessary.
>
>
>---
>avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
>Virus Database (VPS): 0613-2, 03/31/2006
>Tested on: 4/1/2006 2:47:11 PM
>avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2005 ALWIL Software.
>http://www.avast.com
>
>


That might come up too hostile with the dealer. First off I
would go down to the dealer as soon as possible and get them to
replace it. If you get no where with the sales manager, ask for the
general manager (a lot of people don't do this) as he/she would be you
last resort of getting anything done. Tell them your disappointment in
this situation and the only way you will be satisfied is that you get
another car.
If all else fails then threaten them with a lawyer/lawsuit if
they don't make it right. Since the cost will be probably over the
limit of what the district court can handle, it'll go directly to
county court so that saves you one step in the lawsuit. make sure to
document when you spoke to who and confirmed that they told you that
it was damaged, because I doubt that they would admit this in court.
It doesn't hold up as much in court as an actual letter but it helps
since you have an exact day and time.
Everyone gets caught up in the car buying that they forget to
check the car and ensure there is nothing wrong with it. I'd spend a
good few hours at my next car purchase to make sure that this doesn't
happen. I'm sure the sales guy would really like that

Before you threaten a lawsuit, read your sales contract. If it says that
you gave up your right to going to court and you must enter into binding
arbitration, you are probably stuck with binding arbitration because of all
the jackasses elected to Congress and state legislatures. Binding
arbitration clauses are for the most part enforcable these days and sueing
is a waste of time and money.

So go down first to the dealer and ask the manager for a new car. If he
refuses, tell him you will follow the rules into arbitration and in addition
you will notify the BBB and state attorney general of this apparent fraud.
Tell him also you will get a parade permit and parade outside his dealership
every weekend with a sign explaining the fraud until the car is replaced.
Don't let him tell you it is as good as new. It is not. Factory paint
always last longer than body shop work.


<Nick> wrote in message ...
> On Sat, 01 Apr 2006 22:47:12 GMT, Matt Ion >
> wrote:
>
wrote:
>>> I just bought a brand new 06 Civic. When I took
>>> the car home I noticed a slight warping on the right
>>> side panel where bumper meets the body.
>>>
>>> I contacted the dealer and sent him photos the
>>> next morning. He called and said he checked his
>>> computer records and didn't find any indication of a possible lot
>>> damage/repairs.
>>>
>>> I replied, in writing, acknowledging his not finding
>>> any repair records prior to sale and that we were worried
>>> about safety features working properly and would
>>> always like to be informed of possible prior damage/repairs.
>>>
>>> The next morning, I got a call, that he had checked
>>> again -- this time with the "service" department and
>>> had INDEED found that there was lot repair/damage
>>> that involved replacing the bumper and a paint job
>>> and he was going to find out more about when at work.
>>>
>>> So at the end, we were sold a NEW car, that was damaged
>>> and repaired (with visible signs remaining) prior to sale and
>>> we were not disclosed this info until later. I would NEVER
>>> have bought this car had I known about this possibility.
>>>
>>> What are my rights as a consumer here? Repair is not an
>>> option for us since we bought a new car just so we can
>>> have a car we were sure had no prior damage! Can this be
>>> sufficient grounds for demanding an exchange (I only
>>> had the car for 2 days). The evidence is there, and acknowledged
>>> by the dealer. I know Honda is very meticulous about
>>> dealers delivering cars in good shape. Would I be better
>>> off going through Honda and not the dealer? We are at a
>>> loss as to what to do now. Any advice would be greatly
>>> appreciated!
>>
>>Your specific rights will vary depending on the jurisdiction you're in,
>>but I'd think any reputable dealer would offer an exchange immediately,
>>especially after discovering that they DID know about AND HAVE A RECORD
>>OF the damage and repair. The fact that it was damaged, repaired, and
>>then put on the lot and sold as new without any OBVIOUS indication of
>>the damage (note on the sales sticker or at least on the paperwork)
>>should be reason enough for an investigation by the BBB or any number of
>>Auto Dealers associations.
>>
>>I'd go back to the dealership right away and ask THE MANAGER (not the
>>salesman) to replace the car with a new one immediately... if they get
>>snotty about it, I'd INSIST on a replacement immediately ("You WILL
>>exchange this!" rather than "Could you exchange this?"), and threaten
>>legal action... but again, if they're a halfway-reputable dealer, that
>>shouldn't be necessary.
>>
>>
>>---
>>avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
>>Virus Database (VPS): 0613-2, 03/31/2006
>>Tested on: 4/1/2006 2:47:11 PM
>>avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2005 ALWIL Software.
>>http://www.avast.com
>>
>>
>
>
> That might come up too hostile with the dealer. First off I
> would go down to the dealer as soon as possible and get them to
> replace it. If you get no where with the sales manager, ask for the
> general manager (a lot of people don't do this) as he/she would be you
> last resort of getting anything done. Tell them your disappointment in
> this situation and the only way you will be satisfied is that you get
> another car.
> If all else fails then threaten them with a lawyer/lawsuit if
> they don't make it right. Since the cost will be probably over the
> limit of what the district court can handle, it'll go directly to
> county court so that saves you one step in the lawsuit. make sure to
> document when you spoke to who and confirmed that they told you that
> it was damaged, because I doubt that they would admit this in court.
> It doesn't hold up as much in court as an actual letter but it helps
> since you have an exact day and time.
> Everyone gets caught up in the car buying that they forget to
> check the car and ensure there is nothing wrong with it. I'd spend a
> good few hours at my next car purchase to make sure that this doesn't
> happen. I'm sure the sales guy would really like that
>
>
>

At least in the past (late 80's) Honda was very strict about selling a
damaged car as new. At the time, my next-door neighbor was the Honda rep
for our section of the state. He always had the classiest Hondas to drive.
All of a sudden, he was driving a new Civic rather than the 4-wheel steering
Prelude in his driveway. I asked him about this, and he said that it had
been slightly damaged during transit (a little ding in the hood, I think).
He had to put a few thousand miles on it so the car would be sold as a used
car, not new. The repair was pristine, but Honda did not want the car sold
as new.

I have no reason to believe that Honda has changed their position since
then. First talk with the dealer to try to get satisfaction. If that
doesn't help, get your local Honda of America rep and talk to him. I'll be
surprised if that doesn't solve the problem.


> wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> I just bought a brand new 06 Civic. When I took
> the car home I noticed a slight warping on the right
> side panel where bumper meets the body.
>
> I contacted the dealer and sent him photos the
> next morning. He called and said he checked his
> computer records and didn't find any indication of a possible lot
> damage/repairs.
>
> I replied, in writing, acknowledging his not finding
> any repair records prior to sale and that we were worried
> about safety features working properly and would
> always like to be informed of possible prior damage/repairs.
>
> The next morning, I got a call, that he had checked
> again -- this time with the "service" department and
> had INDEED found that there was lot repair/damage
> that involved replacing the bumper and a paint job
> and he was going to find out more about when at work.
>
> So at the end, we were sold a NEW car, that was damaged
> and repaired (with visible signs remaining) prior to sale and
> we were not disclosed this info until later. I would NEVER
> have bought this car had I known about this possibility.
>
> What are my rights as a consumer here? Repair is not an
> option for us since we bought a new car just so we can
> have a car we were sure had no prior damage! Can this be
> sufficient grounds for demanding an exchange (I only
> had the car for 2 days). The evidence is there, and acknowledged
> by the dealer. I know Honda is very meticulous about
> dealers delivering cars in good shape. Would I be better
> off going through Honda and not the dealer? We are at a
> loss as to what to do now. Any advice would be greatly
> appreciated!
>
> Ben
>