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Q4 engine in GTV6?



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 30th 04, 09:40 AM
Mario Orsolic
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Default Q4 engine in GTV6?

Hello all !

I have 2 GTVs, 1 is GTV6 2.5 (in very bad condition), and other is GTV2.0,
in decent condition. My plan is to use 2.0 chasis and put in an 3.0 24V
engine from 164Q4, which I could get relatively cheap (complete car).
So my questions would be:

Am i facing only "usuall" 24V conversion problems, or are there some new
issues regarding 4WD of Q4 ?

Since GTV2.0 have 4 hole wheels, and i plan to use Q4 alloys, is it possible
to transfer hubs from GTV6 ?

I would like to have LSD diferrential, so seems I will have to put hands on
75s one. Question is does 75 2.0TS have LSD ? Could I use complete gearbox
from it ?

Once I manage to fit the engine, I will have some more questions about
suspension and brakes, so stay tuned.

Tnx,
Mario, Croatia


  #2  
Old August 30th 04, 12:28 PM
Catman
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Default

Mario Orsolic wrote:

> Hello all !
>
> I have 2 GTVs, 1 is GTV6 2.5 (in very bad condition), and other is GTV2.0,
> in decent condition. My plan is to use 2.0 chasis and put in an 3.0 24V
> engine from 164Q4, which I could get relatively cheap (complete car).
> So my questions would be:


*cough* cheap?

> Am i facing only "usuall" 24V conversion problems, or are there some new
> issues regarding 4WD of Q4 ?


I think the 24v engine is deeper than the 12v. It should fit with new
mounts though (eventually)

Are you planning on making this AWD??


> Since GTV2.0 have 4 hole wheels, and i plan to use Q4 alloys, is it
> possible to transfer hubs from GTV6 ?


You'd probably better finding a transaxle from a V6 and using that whole,
together with front components from another V6

> I would like to have LSD diferrential, so seems I will have to put hands
> on 75s one. Question is does 75 2.0TS have LSD ? Could I use complete
> gearbox from it ?


AIUI the TS does not have an LSD. Also the gearing is a bit lower. This
would make for a brisk car

> Once I manage to fit the engine, I will have some more questions about
> suspension and brakes, so stay tuned.


Let us know how it comes out. You might want to check the pics of my V6
conversion to see some of the work involved.

--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 75 2.0 TS (two off)
Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk
  #3  
Old August 30th 04, 01:20 PM
Mario Orsolic
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Catman" > wrote in message
...

> *cough* cheap?


A bit above 1000 EUR. Car is not completely ok, and can't pass TUV (in
Germany), but engine is running ok, and engine (and management) is what I
need.

> > Am i facing only "usuall" 24V conversion problems, or are there some new
> > issues regarding 4WD of Q4 ?

>
> I think the 24v engine is deeper than the 12v. It should fit with new
> mounts though (eventually)


I'm mostly aware of "standard" problems of fitting 24V engine in GTV6 -
question is should i expect new problems concerning 4WD of Q4, eg. do
"standard" 164 24V engine and Q4 engine look the same from gearbox side ?

> Are you planning on making this AWD??


Definitely not.
But that open another question: i could probably run into trouble if engine
management relies on some specific 4WD input which i will not be able to
provide.

> > Since GTV2.0 have 4 hole wheels, and i plan to use Q4 alloys, is it
> > possible to transfer hubs from GTV6 ?

>
> You'd probably better finding a transaxle from a V6 and using that whole,
> together with front components from another V6


Well, alternative is to find a nice 75V6 and transfer everything, but since
I used to drive and 164Q4 few years ago, I like the idea of same power.


> Let us know how it comes out. You might want to check the pics of my V6
> conversion to see some of the work involved.


I would appreciate that, but i couldn't find them at
> www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk


OrMar


  #4  
Old August 30th 04, 02:48 PM
Catman
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Default

Mario Orsolic wrote:

> "Catman" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> *cough* cheap?

>
> A bit above 1000 EUR. Car is not completely ok, and can't pass TUV (in
> Germany), but engine is running ok, and engine (and management) is what I
> need.


I will be very surprised if you can do it for that, even allowing for the
difference in labour rates. Are you doing all this yourself?

>> > Am i facing only "usuall" 24V conversion problems, or are there some
>> > new issues regarding 4WD of Q4 ?

>>
>> I think the 24v engine is deeper than the 12v. It should fit with new
>> mounts though (eventually)

>
> I'm mostly aware of "standard" problems of fitting 24V engine in GTV6 -
> question is should i expect new problems concerning 4WD of Q4, eg. do
> "standard" 164 24V engine and Q4 engine look the same from gearbox side ?


Good point. Sorry I have no idea but I should think so.
<snip>
>
> I would appreciate that, but i couldn't find them at


www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk/catman.html

Not really got round to doing the technical analysis but the pics are there

--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 75 2.0 TS (two off)
Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk
  #5  
Old August 30th 04, 08:11 PM
Mario Orsolic
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Catman" > wrote in message
...

> > A bit above 1000 EUR. Car is not completely ok, and can't pass TUV (in
> > Germany), but engine is running ok, and engine (and management) is what

I
> > need.

>
> I will be very surprised if you can do it for that, even allowing for the
> difference in labour rates. Are you doing all this yourself?


I'm only talking about the price for Q4. And no, I'm not going to do the
work myself.

Mario


  #6  
Old August 30th 04, 09:03 PM
George Graves
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article >,
"Mario Orsolic" > wrote:

> "Catman" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > *cough* cheap?

>
> A bit above 1000 EUR. Car is not completely ok, and can't pass TUV (in
> Germany), but engine is running ok, and engine (and management) is what I
> need.
>
> > > Am i facing only "usuall" 24V conversion problems, or are there some new
> > > issues regarding 4WD of Q4 ?

> >
> > I think the 24v engine is deeper than the 12v. It should fit with new
> > mounts though (eventually)

>
> I'm mostly aware of "standard" problems of fitting 24V engine in GTV6 -
> question is should i expect new problems concerning 4WD of Q4, eg. do
> "standard" 164 24V engine and Q4 engine look the same from gearbox side ?
>
> > Are you planning on making this AWD??

>
> Definitely not.
> But that open another question: i could probably run into trouble if engine
> management relies on some specific 4WD input which i will not be able to
> provide.
>
> > > Since GTV2.0 have 4 hole wheels, and i plan to use Q4 alloys, is it
> > > possible to transfer hubs from GTV6 ?

> >
> > You'd probably better finding a transaxle from a V6 and using that whole,
> > together with front components from another V6

>
> Well, alternative is to find a nice 75V6 and transfer everything, but since
> I used to drive and 164Q4 few years ago, I like the idea of same power.


You can easily achieve the same power with a 3.O Liter 75 'Verde"
engine. I think it's a better deal because it's virtually a drop in to a
GTV-6 from a standpoint of intake runners, exhaust headers, clearance
issues, etc. Port and relieve the engine, buy an aftermarket ECU or have
the L-Jettronic unit modified, use larger injectors, have a free-flow
exhaust system fabricated and you should be able to easily get to within
a few HP of the 164 24-valve engine. The 2-valve is a better engine too
(IMHO) as the 164 24 valve had valve train problems and tended to throw
timing bselts. Alfa re-designed the thing in 1996, and 6-cylinders form
156 and 166s are fine.

--
George Graves
------------------

Bush is a poor leader because he isn't very smart.
What's Kerry's excuse gonna be?
  #7  
Old August 31st 04, 08:16 AM
Mario Orsolic
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"George Graves" > wrote in message
...

> You can easily achieve the same power with a 3.O Liter 75 'Verde"
> engine.


That was my first idea - but i simply couldn't find wrecked 75.

Mario


  #8  
Old August 31st 04, 12:52 PM
Thomas Strandtoft
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Mario Orsolic wrote:

> > You can easily achieve the same power with a 3.O Liter 75 'Verde"
> > engine.

>
> That was my first idea - but i simply couldn't find wrecked 75.


<www.mobile.de> has a couple of cheap 75 3.0's, they are not
wrecked, but at those prices they are probably rust infected?? A
1000 euro's and you get a complete car, you even get the LSD as a
part of the deal..

--
Hygge..
Thomas

<http://www.carftp.com> - a library of car videos.
  #9  
Old August 31st 04, 10:28 PM
George Graves
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article >,
"Mario Orsolic" > wrote:

> "George Graves" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > You can easily achieve the same power with a 3.O Liter 75 'Verde"
> > engine.

>
> That was my first idea - but i simply couldn't find wrecked 75.
>
> Mario


People I know who have converted 24-valve engines for use in GTV-6's
have regretted it due to the cam belt problems (do you know that it
takes a special tool to fit one while the 12-valve belt can be fitted
with hand tools?). That's why I suggested it.

--
George Graves
------------------

Bush is a poor leader because he isn't very smart.
What's Kerry's excuse gonna be?
  #10  
Old August 31st 04, 08:44 AM
DesmaisonLCM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Dans l'article >, Catman
>a écrit :

>> I would like to have LSD diferrential, so seems I will have to put hands
>> on 75s one. Question is does 75 2.0TS have LSD ? Could I use complete
>> gearbox from it ?

>
>AIUI the TS does not have an LSD. Also the gearing is a bit lower. This
>would make for a brisk car


in France the 75 2.0TS is with a lsd differential, the same is on the 75 turbo.
(Limited Slip to 20%)
Bruno.
 




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