Ford, GM have discussed merger, alliance

"Rocky" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Mr. Bunny" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 15:20:06 -0500, razz wrote:
>>
>> Hyundai started out making the worst piece of crap you
>> could find.
>
> You forgot Yugo, Hyundai was great by comparison. If we throw British
> cars into the mix of choices, I think walking becomes the default
> selection...

Don't forget Daewoo and those cars made in Russia under the Soviets.

>
> Don't forget Daewoo and those cars made in Russia under the Soviets.
>
I hate asian cars. Always have since the first one I saw. But the Daewoo
gets a bum rap compared to Mitsubishi's ******* child, Hyundai..

You wanna see junk, wait till the geelys from china start showing up,
understand they are already available in Canada. A 4x4 in competion with
the Kia was tested in germany and scored "0" in the crash test. Driver and
passenger would have died in the 40mph head on, driver may survive in the
30mph side impact but will suffer major injuries. But it will sell like hot
cakes here.

Whitelightning

In article <OG_Rg.2533$Kw1.591@trnddc05>,
"Whitelightning" > wrote:

> You wanna see junk, wait till the geelys from china start showing up,
> understand they are already available in Canada.
Oh my I hope not so soon.
I haven't seen one yet.
I'll not follow closely; protecting my tires from falling parts!

Picasso wrote:
> Brent P wrote:
> > In article .com>, Harry in Montreal wrote:
> >> I just cannot see this merger resulting in a better quality
> >> product anytime soon.
> >
> > A Ford and GM merger may actually create a black hole of suckage that no
> > car model can escape.
> >
> > I don't think any good product could get out the door with two sets of
> > executives and management preventing it.
> >
> >
> >
> Oh Goodie, two companies who rely almost completely on half tons...
> that'll be great. Now don't get me wrong, i will forever own a halfton,
> but the majority of people are switching away from larger vehicles, and
> finding ways to get by without halftons.
>
> I mean when you think about it, a lot of people with half tons, would
> savew enough fuel and repairs in a year owning a small 4 banger foreign
> car to rent a pickup truck for weeks of hunting, or weekends of
> fourwheeling, etc. I've considered it, but for work I need a half ton.

What I'd really like to see is a Ranger with a small diesel. Something
with
200-250 ft-lbs of torque. The V-6 doesn't get significantly different
gas
mileage than the F-150.

Mark

Nemisis wrote:

>
>
> What I'd really like to see is a Ranger with a small diesel. Something
> with
> 200-250 ft-lbs of torque. The V-6 doesn't get significantly different
> gas
> mileage than the F-150.
>
> Mark
>
I agree. Problem is diesels don't sell well in the US. They run a little different,
smell a little different, feel a little different, need a little different care, YAAHH
I can't handle change, I'll stay with what I'm familiar with!! I don't wanna
change...! I'll just stay in my comfort zone and pay for gas.
We, as a whole in the US, are so used to gasoline powered engines that we are afraid
of anything new (different).
I had the chance to drive the prototype of the GM EV-1 (Battery Powered) back in the
late 80s, called the Impact. It was amazing!! As a Prototype it lacked creature
comforts like AC, power accessories, stereo, etc. It would gate a Corvette of that
vintage and keep up respectably in a 1/4 mile race, had a range of ~200 miles, handled
great, and looked pretty cool. GM morphed it into the EV-1. With styling changes and
the addition of creature comforts, the range was lowered to about 80 miles per charge.
IMHO, it was still viable as a commuter vehicle, as the average commute to work and
back is ~28 miles last I read. The EV-1 died a quick death once the CARB "0" Emissions
mandate was overturned.
I would have bought an EV-1 if it had been available in Northern Ohio back then. I
would now buy a diesel powered car\truck if available in my "need" range from the
domestic auto makers, like the Ranger you mention. Sadly, none are available.

Tom Adkins wrote:
> Nemisis wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > What I'd really like to see is a Ranger with a small diesel. Something
> > with
> > 200-250 ft-lbs of torque. The V-6 doesn't get significantly different
> > gas
> > mileage than the F-150.
> >
> > Mark
> >
> I agree. Problem is diesels don't sell well in the US. They run a little different,
> smell a little different, feel a little different, need a little different care, YAAHH
> I can't handle change, I'll stay with what I'm familiar with!! I don't wanna
> change...! I'll just stay in my comfort zone and pay for gas.
> We, as a whole in the US, are so used to gasoline powered engines that we are afraid
> of anything new (different).

Interesting, because having just visited Ford of Germany's website, the
only available engine in the Ranger is a 2.5 L turbo-diesel. How tough
would it be to bring that truck here?

Jeep offers a diesel in their Liberty, but with automatic tranny only.
Being a die-hard clutch & stick fan, I did not even consider the
Liberty as a viable option.

> I had the chance to drive the prototype of the GM EV-1 (Battery Powered) back in the
> late 80s, called the Impact. It was amazing!! As a Prototype it lacked creature
> comforts like AC, power accessories, stereo, etc. It would gate a Corvette of that
> vintage and keep up respectably in a 1/4 mile race, had a range of ~200 miles, handled
> great, and looked pretty cool. GM morphed it into the EV-1. With styling changes and
> the addition of creature comforts, the range was lowered to about 80 miles per charge.
> IMHO, it was still viable as a commuter vehicle, as the average commute to work and
> back is ~28 miles last I read. The EV-1 died a quick death once the CARB "0" Emissions
> mandate was overturned.
> I would have bought an EV-1 if it had been available in Northern Ohio back then. I
> would now buy a diesel powered car\truck if available in my "need" range from the
> domestic auto makers, like the Ranger you mention. Sadly, none are available.

That's the kicker. Where did all these cars go? This would be perfect
for the wife, who travels maybe 15 miles a dat tops. Put in a PV based
charging system and you could run the car for next to free.

Mark

Nemisis wrote:
> Tom Adkins wrote:
>
>>Nemisis wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>>What I'd really like to see is a Ranger with a small diesel. Something
>>>with
>>>200-250 ft-lbs of torque. The V-6 doesn't get significantly different
>>>gas
>>>mileage than the F-150.
>>>
>>>Mark
>>>
>>
>> I agree. Problem is diesels don't sell well in the US. They run a little different,
>>smell a little different, feel a little different, need a little different care, YAAHH
>>I can't handle change, I'll stay with what I'm familiar with!! I don't wanna
>>change...! I'll just stay in my comfort zone and pay for gas.
>> We, as a whole in the US, are so used to gasoline powered engines that we are afraid
>>of anything new (different).
>
>
> Interesting, because having just visited Ford of Germany's website, the
> only available engine in the Ranger is a 2.5 L turbo-diesel. How tough
> would it be to bring that truck here?

Not tough at all, I would imagine. They would likely not sell very well.

>
> Jeep offers a diesel in their Liberty, but with automatic tranny only.
> Being a die-hard clutch & stick fan, I did not even consider the
> Liberty as a viable option.

Hmmm, I wasn't aware of that.

>
>
>> I had the chance to drive the prototype of the GM EV-1 (Battery Powered) back in the
>>late 80s, called the Impact. It was amazing!! As a Prototype it lacked creature
>>comforts like AC, power accessories, stereo, etc. It would gate a Corvette of that
>>vintage and keep up respectably in a 1/4 mile race, had a range of ~200 miles, handled
>>great, and looked pretty cool. GM morphed it into the EV-1. With styling changes and
>>the addition of creature comforts, the range was lowered to about 80 miles per charge.
>>IMHO, it was still viable as a commuter vehicle, as the average commute to work and
>>back is ~28 miles last I read. The EV-1 died a quick death once the CARB "0" Emissions
>>mandate was overturned.
>> I would have bought an EV-1 if it had been available in Northern Ohio back then. I
>>would now buy a diesel powered car\truck if available in my "need" range from the
>>domestic auto makers, like the Ranger you mention. Sadly, none are available.
>
>
> That's the kicker. Where did all these cars go? This would be perfect
> for the wife, who travels maybe 15 miles a dat tops. Put in a PV based
> charging system and you could run the car for next to free.
>

That was the question in the back of my mind for many years. All of the EV-1s were
leased. When the lease was up, GM pulled them and eventually crushed them. The EV-1
was only available in California. Many folks outside of that state didn't even know
they existed. Other car makers got into the electric car game at that time also. Ford
produced some electric Rangers for California.
Not long ago I happened across a documentary called Who Killed the Electric Car. It
told the story of the EV-1 and the processes that brought it into existance along with
opinions about why it was discontinued. Although rather slanted (anti Big Business,
anti Republican) it was really interesting. They gave the website
www.whokilledtheelectriccar.com . I haven't had time to check it out.

"Tom Adkins" > wrote in message
...
> Nemisis wrote:
>> Tom Adkins wrote:
>>
>>>Nemisis wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>What I'd really like to see is a Ranger with a small diesel. Something
>>>>with
>>>>200-250 ft-lbs of torque. The V-6 doesn't get significantly different
>>>>gas
>>>>mileage than the F-150.
>>>>
>>>>Mark
>>>>
>>>
>>> I agree. Problem is diesels don't sell well in the US. They run a
>>> little different,
>>>smell a little different, feel a little different, need a little
>>>different care, YAAHH
>>>I can't handle change, I'll stay with what I'm familiar with!! I don't
>>>wanna
>>>change...! I'll just stay in my comfort zone and pay for gas.
>>> We, as a whole in the US, are so used to gasoline powered engines that
>>> we are afraid
>>>of anything new (different).
>>
>>
>> Interesting, because having just visited Ford of Germany's website, the
>> only available engine in the Ranger is a 2.5 L turbo-diesel. How tough
>> would it be to bring that truck here?
>
> Not tough at all, I would imagine. They would likely not sell very well.
>
>>
>> Jeep offers a diesel in their Liberty, but with automatic tranny only.
>> Being a die-hard clutch & stick fan, I did not even consider the
>> Liberty as a viable option.
>
> Hmmm, I wasn't aware of that.
>

< snip >

Most manufacturers (Jeep included) have pulled most (if not all) diesels off
the market because of the ULSD issue, with them being re-introduced sometime
next year. ULSD is "ultralow sulfur diesel". Basically, 2007 and beyond
model year diesels have much more stringent emission controls (catalitic
converters, etc.) and the "current" (up until September 06) diesel fuel
(even a small amount) will ruin the emission controls. So, the new diesel
is now at the pumps, but the manufacturers are being cautious, wanting to
make sure ALL the old diesel fuel (LSD = low sulfur diesel) is out of the
gas station tanks before they start selling "2007 models", so the real "2007
models" are really going to be "2007 1/2 models".

"Tom Adkins" > wrote in message
...
> Nemisis wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> What I'd really like to see is a Ranger with a small diesel. Something
>> with
>> 200-250 ft-lbs of torque. The V-6 doesn't get significantly different
>> gas mileage than the F-150.
>>
>> Mark
>>
> I agree. Problem is diesels don't sell well in the US. They run a little
> different, smell a little different, feel a little different, need a
> little different care, YAAHH I can't handle change, I'll stay with what
> I'm familiar with!! I don't wanna change...! I'll just stay in my comfort
> zone and pay for gas.

Diesels were selling pretty well until GM came out with the 350 diesel.
Peugeot, GM, VW, Audi and DiamlerBenz all sold diesels in the 80s.

> We, as a whole in the US, are so used to gasoline powered engines that we
> are afraid of anything new (different).

You mean like the scores of thousands of hybrids that have sold in the US?

> I had the chance to drive the prototype of the GM EV-1 (Battery Powered)
> back in the late 80s, called the Impact. It was amazing!! As a Prototype
> it lacked creature comforts like AC, power accessories, stereo, etc. It
> would gate a Corvette of that vintage and keep up respectably in a 1/4
> mile race, had a range of ~200 miles, handled great, and looked pretty
> cool. GM morphed it into the EV-1. With styling changes and the addition
> of creature comforts, the range was lowered to about 80 miles per charge.
> IMHO, it was still viable as a commuter vehicle, as the average commute to
> work and back is ~28 miles last I read. The EV-1 died a quick death once
> the CARB "0" Emissions mandate was overturned.
> I would have bought an EV-1 if it had been available in Northern Ohio
> back then. I would now buy a diesel powered car\truck if available in my
> "need" range from the domestic auto makers, like the Ranger you mention.
> Sadly, none are available.

VW still sells a diesel. Mercedes is bring them back. And Honda plans on
selling them in the 2009 model year, if not sooner.

Jeff

Nemisis wrote:
> What I'd really like to see is a Ranger with a small diesel.
> Something with
> 200-250 ft-lbs of torque. The V-6 doesn't get significantly different
> gas
> mileage than the F-150.

My 2004 F-150 5.4L Triton 4x4 gets better mileage than my
2000 Ranger 4.0L 4x4 got. Not what I expected, but it is
a good thing.