Leaky A/C

87 Lebaron.

Obvious freon blowout under hood but leak not detectable as oily freon
is all over the hoses, compressor, hood, etc.

Other than fully evacuating and recharging the system including tracer
dye to detect the leak, is there a better way to find the leak without
spending $200?

Can one just put compressed air in the freon inlet and search for a
leak?

I am sure it needs a part(s).

Could be hose or compressor seal?

I don't want to pay $200 to find the leak and still have to replace
hose or compressor and recharge the freon for anothr $200 plus?

Any ideas?

Email me above and/or post.

Thanks in advance.

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> 87 Lebaron.
>
> Obvious freon blowout under hood but leak not detectable as oily freon
> is all over the hoses, compressor, hood, etc.
>
> Other than fully evacuating and recharging the system including tracer
> dye to detect the leak, is there a better way to find the leak without
> spending $200?
>
> Can one just put compressed air in the freon inlet and search for a
> leak?
>
> I am sure it needs a part(s).
>
> Could be hose or compressor seal?
>
> I don't want to pay $200 to find the leak and still have to replace
> hose or compressor and recharge the freon for anothr $200 plus?
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Email me above and/or post.
>
> Thanks in advance.

You might want to wipe off the hoses best you can..... then maybe buy a
can of refrigerant and refill with just one can... then watch where it leaks
out. You will probably see what you see now, but you will be able to catch
it before it goes all over the place. chances are it is coming from an old
o-ring that needs replacing, or one of the connectors need tightening...

good luck..

Fwed

> wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> fweddybear wrote:
>> > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>> > 87 Lebaron.
>> >
>> > Obvious freon blowout under hood but leak not detectable as oily freon
>> > is all over the hoses, compressor, hood, etc.
>> >
>> > Other than fully evacuating and recharging the system including tracer
>> > dye to detect the leak, is there a better way to find the leak without
>> > spending $200?
>> >
>> > Can one just put compressed air in the freon inlet and search for a
>> > leak?
>> >
>> > I am sure it needs a part(s).
>> >
>> > Could be hose or compressor seal?
>> >
>> > I don't want to pay $200 to find the leak and still have to replace
>> > hose or compressor and recharge the freon for anothr $200 plus?
>> >
>> > Any ideas?
>> >
>> > Email me above and/or post.
>> >
>> > Thanks in advance.
>>
>> You might want to wipe off the hoses best you can..... then maybe buy
>> a
>> can of refrigerant and refill with just one can... then watch where it
>> leaks
>> out. You will probably see what you see now, but you will be able to
>> catch
>> it before it goes all over the place.
>
> Yes, working on this one. I was going to steam clean but likely not
> necessary.
> I can only see one fitting for freon. Is there more inlet/outlet
> fittings?
>
>>chances are it is coming from an old
>> o-ring that needs replacing, or one of the connectors need tightening...
>
> A cheap fix like would be best for my wallet. But I know there are
> other things it could be like the compressor seal, pop off valve, hose,
> or even clogged condenser.
>>
>> good luck..
>>
>> Fwed
>
> Thanks.

There is a high side and a low side...... when you buy the refrigerant,
you will need the hose too, and it only fits on the low side, so you can't
screw things up. Just follow the directions.... its pretty easy to refill.
This will work as a sort of temperary fix.... I did this myself to get me
thru a summer. By the time the next summer rolled around, I started doing
the same thing, but this time it ate cans like crazy. It actually got too
expensive. I am not a tech on a/c service, and since I couldn't see where
the leak was, I took it somewhere to be done. Turned out to be the
condensing unit behind the dashboard. Its a bitch of a job as the whole
dashboard had to come out to have it fixed. It cost me just over 900 bucks,
but I wanted it done.
In your case, it sounds like the leak is under the hood and probably an
inexpensive fix if its coming from the hose fitting. Sounds like just an
o-ring and a recharge.

Fwed

your situation probably needs the attention of a professional.

rather than add compressed air - R-134 doesn't cost all that much, and
there are commercial leak detectors available at a reasonable cost.

R-134 under the right condition can replace freon-12 in a system.

mho
vƒe

you definitly don't wan't to put compressed air into the system,since it
contains the moisture that you want to remove by evacuating the system. i
use a small amt of refrigerant plus some nitrogen for the leak check. i do
three leak checks: soap bubbles, electronic leak detector, and vacuum hold
test.

the price isn't controlled by the difficulty of the job. almost all are
pretty straight forward,and most mechanics(backyard and professional) can
handle. the cost is in the tools, parts, and time if it is a more in depth
like a rebuild.

good luck
> wrote in message
...
your situation probably needs the attention of a professional.

rather than add compressed air - R-134 doesn't cost all that much, and
there are commercial leak detectors available at a reasonable cost.

R-134 under the right condition can replace freon-12 in a system.

mho
vfe

fweddybear wrote:
> > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> >
> > fweddybear wrote:
> >> > wrote in message
> >> oups.com...
> >> > 87 Lebaron.
> >> >
> >> > Obvious freon blowout under hood but leak not detectable as oily freon
> >> > is all over the hoses, compressor, hood, etc.
> >> >
> >> > Other than fully evacuating and recharging the system including tracer
> >> > dye to detect the leak, is there a better way to find the leak without
> >> > spending $200?
> >> >
> >> > Can one just put compressed air in the freon inlet and search for a
> >> > leak?
> >> >
> >> > I am sure it needs a part(s).
> >> >
> >> > Could be hose or compressor seal?
> >> >
> >> > I don't want to pay $200 to find the leak and still have to replace
> >> > hose or compressor and recharge the freon for anothr $200 plus?
> >> >
> >> > Any ideas?
> >> >
> >> > Email me above and/or post.
> >> >
> >> > Thanks in advance.
> >>
> >> You might want to wipe off the hoses best you can..... then maybe buy
> >> a
> >> can of refrigerant and refill with just one can... then watch where it
> >> leaks
> >> out. You will probably see what you see now, but you will be able to
> >> catch
> >> it before it goes all over the place.
> >
> > Yes, working on this one. I was going to steam clean but likely not
> > necessary.
> > I can only see one fitting for freon. Is there more inlet/outlet
> > fittings?
> >
> >>chances are it is coming from an old
> >> o-ring that needs replacing, or one of the connectors need tightening...
> >
> > A cheap fix like would be best for my wallet. But I know there are
> > other things it could be like the compressor seal, pop off valve, hose,
> > or even clogged condenser.
> >>
> >> good luck..
> >>
> >> Fwed
> >
> > Thanks.
>
> There is a high side and a low side...... when you buy the refrigerant,
> you will need the hose too, and it only fits on the low side, so you can't
> screw things up.

Ok, but I have an r12 system so I gues I need some type of adpter too?

>Just follow the directions.... its pretty easy to refill.
> This will work as a sort of temperary fix.... I did this myself to get me
> thru a summer. By the time the next summer rolled around, I started doing
> the same thing, but this time it ate cans like crazy. It actually got too
> expensive.

Well, I'm in the desert until June so I need serious A/C. It'll be 100
degrees here in a couple weeeks. That's about 140degrees in a car.

>I am not a tech on a/c service, and since I couldn't see where
> the leak was, I took it somewhere to be done. Turned out to be the
> condensing unit behind the dashboard. Its a bitch of a job as the whole
> dashboard had to come out to have it fixed. It cost me just over 900 bucks,
> but I wanted it done.

Yes, I'm just trying to save a hundred or two by troubleshooting and
changing aany parts needed before fully evacuating and charging the
syst.

> In your case, it sounds like the leak is under the hood and probably an
> inexpensive fix if its coming from the hose fitting. Sounds like just an
> o-ring and a recharge.
>
> Fwed

One can only hope.

Thanks.

>tom&kel wrote: In email.

>Kevin Mouton > wrote: Do not use compressed air to leak check the >system. Moisture is bad for the
>system and the air may cause residual refrigerant oil to become ignightable.

Ok.

>Use compressed nitrogen with trace dye or halon gas if using an electronic
>detector.

Is this what a reputable mechanic would do first?

>Even a single can of 134a refrigerant (about 10 dollars) could be
>used to check for a big leak.

Ok. sounds easy.
87 has older freon spec. is 134a ok if it a an r12 freon spec?
Is there only the one hose inlet?
Do I need more than just the can? Will a can have connections to inlet?
Just twist it to the fitting while the a/c is running?

I know there is a high side and lowside hose.
I supose they are marked?

>Your description sounds like the pop off vale on the compressor may have
>released excessive pressure.

I don't know where that valve is.
The oil from the system sprayed on the hoses but looked like it might
have shot straight up on the hood then got on the belt.

>In that case no leak may be found, but you need
>to find the cause of the build up of head pressure.

Ok.

>That is usually due to
>lack of air flow through the condenser such as when the fan does not
>operate properly.

Ok. Which fan? The condenser is in front with radiator not the part in
the car that blows the cold right?

Thanks for the help.
I'll check for can of freon and inlet(s).


----- Original Message -----
From:
Newsgroups: rec.autos.tech
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 4:42 PM
Subject: Leaky A/C


> 87 Lebaron.
>
> Obvious freon blowout under hood but leak not detectable as oily freon
> is all over the hoses, compressor, hood, etc.
>
> Other than fully evacuating and recharging the system including tracer
> dye to detect the leak, is there a better way to find the leak without
> spending $200?
>
> Can one just put compressed air in the freon inlet and search for a
> leak?
>
> I am sure it needs a part(s).
>
> Could be hose or compressor seal?
>
> I don't want to pay $200 to find the leak and still have to replace
> hose or compressor and recharge the freon for anothr $200 plus?
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Email me above and/or post.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>

>>87 Lebaron.
>>
>>Obvious freon blowout under hood but leak not detectable as oily freon
>>is all over the hoses, compressor, hood, etc.
>>
>>Other than fully evacuating and recharging the system including tracer
>>dye to detect the leak, is there a better way to find the leak without
>>spending $200?
>>
>>Can one just put compressed air in the freon inlet and search for a
>>leak?
>>
>>I am sure it needs a part(s).
>>
>>Could be hose or compressor seal?
>>
>>I don't want to pay $200 to find the leak and still have to replace
>>hose or compressor and recharge the freon for anothr $200 plus?
>>
>>Any ideas?
>>
>>Email me above and/or post.
>>
>>Thanks in advance.


My advice is that unless you FULLY understand how refrigeration systems
work and are prepared to tackle the needed modifications to convert to
R-134a as well as to find/repair the failed component, you'd be WAY
better off financially just taking it to a reputable A/C shop. Its
pretty easy to flush away $200+ trying "shotgun" parts swaps and
half-assed repairs on AC systems and STILL have hot air blowing at you.

If you're serious about learning how to do it right, go to the forums at
www.aircondition.com, start reading, study hard, and don't cut corners.
A failed R-12 system being converted to R-134a needs to be flushed,
filled with the correct oil, have a new drier installed, and evacuated
with a good HARD vacuum for several hours at a minimum, in addition to
any failed parts that need to be replaced.

Steve wrote:
> >>87 Lebaron.
> >>
> >>Obvious freon blowout under hood but leak not detectable as oily freon
> >>is all over the hoses, compressor, hood, etc.
> >>
> >>Other than fully evacuating and recharging the system including tracer
> >>dye to detect the leak, is there a better way to find the leak without
> >>spending $200?
> >>
> >>Can one just put compressed air in the freon inlet and search for a
> >>leak?
> >>
> >>I am sure it needs a part(s).
> >>
> >>Could be hose or compressor seal?
> >>
> >>I don't want to pay $200 to find the leak and still have to replace
> >>hose or compressor and recharge the freon for anothr $200 plus?
> >>
> >>Any ideas?
> >>
> >>Email me above and/or post.
> >>
> >>Thanks in advance.
>
>
> My advice is that unless you FULLY understand how refrigeration systems
> work and are prepared to tackle the needed modifications to convert to
> R-134a as well as to find/repair the failed component, you'd be WAY
> better off financially just taking it to a reputable A/C shop.

"Reputable" is easier said than done.
I get that I could have multiple issues here including the difficulty
because of the r12 system.
I hadn't really considered changing over.
It will depend on cost of repair t begin with then possible
modification.

>Its
> pretty easy to flush away $200+ trying "shotgun" parts swaps and
> half-assed repairs on AC systems and STILL have hot air blowing at you.
>
Yes, but I'm just exploring the easier stuff to save 70-85$ / hour.
I am considering a can of R-134a with fitting adapter to see if I can
find the leak.
What will this hurt if there is no leak and it was the popoff valve?
I would still need the reason the valve popped or I find a leak and
replace the part.
I hope it is not a bad compressor seal.
If find a leak and replace any parts I'm saving about 2 hundred bucks
for starters.
If there is no fan/condenser problems all that would need to be done is
to evac the system and charge with R12.
I will need to investigate the difference in costs OF r12 vs changing
the system to an R-134a freon but all this is moot until I find the
leak and cause.

> If you're serious about learning how to do it right, go to the forums at
> www.aircondition.com, start reading, study hard, and don't cut corners.

Thanks.
Right. I'm not trying to cut corners because I need it to work as
reliably as possible.
I'm just doing what I can to save a few hundred bucks. If the
compressor is bad a mechanic will rape me.

> A failed R-12 system being converted to R-134a needs to be flushed,
> filled with the correct oil, have a new drier installed, and evacuated
> with a good HARD vacuum for several hours at a minimum, in addition to
> any failed parts that need to be replaced.

I understand.
The question is one cost vs the other after I find the original
failure.
Thanks again.

******Reply posted at the bottom*******


> wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> Steve wrote:
> > >>87 Lebaron.
> > >>
> > >>Obvious freon blowout under hood but leak not detectable as oily freon
> > >>is all over the hoses, compressor, hood, etc.
> > >>
> > >>Other than fully evacuating and recharging the system including tracer
> > >>dye to detect the leak, is there a better way to find the leak without
> > >>spending $200?
> > >>
> > >>Can one just put compressed air in the freon inlet and search for a
> > >>leak?
> > >>
> > >>I am sure it needs a part(s).
> > >>
> > >>Could be hose or compressor seal?
> > >>
> > >>I don't want to pay $200 to find the leak and still have to replace
> > >>hose or compressor and recharge the freon for anothr $200 plus?
> > >>
> > >>Any ideas?
> > >>
> > >>Email me above and/or post.
> > >>
> > >>Thanks in advance.
> >
> >
> > My advice is that unless you FULLY understand how refrigeration systems
> > work and are prepared to tackle the needed modifications to convert to
> > R-134a as well as to find/repair the failed component, you'd be WAY
> > better off financially just taking it to a reputable A/C shop.
>
> "Reputable" is easier said than done.
> I get that I could have multiple issues here including the difficulty
> because of the r12 system.
> I hadn't really considered changing over.
> It will depend on cost of repair t begin with then possible
> modification.
>
> >Its
> > pretty easy to flush away $200+ trying "shotgun" parts swaps and
> > half-assed repairs on AC systems and STILL have hot air blowing at you.
> >
> Yes, but I'm just exploring the easier stuff to save 70-85$ / hour.
> I am considering a can of R-134a with fitting adapter to see if I can
> find the leak.
> What will this hurt if there is no leak and it was the popoff valve?
> I would still need the reason the valve popped or I find a leak and
> replace the part.
> I hope it is not a bad compressor seal.
> If find a leak and replace any parts I'm saving about 2 hundred bucks
> for starters.
> If there is no fan/condenser problems all that would need to be done is
> to evac the system and charge with R12.
> I will need to investigate the difference in costs OF r12 vs changing
> the system to an R-134a freon but all this is moot until I find the
> leak and cause.
>
> > If you're serious about learning how to do it right, go to the forums at
> > www.aircondition.com, start reading, study hard, and don't cut corners.
>
> Thanks.
> Right. I'm not trying to cut corners because I need it to work as
> reliably as possible.
> I'm just doing what I can to save a few hundred bucks. If the
> compressor is bad a mechanic will rape me.
>
> > A failed R-12 system being converted to R-134a needs to be flushed,
> > filled with the correct oil, have a new drier installed, and evacuated
> > with a good HARD vacuum for several hours at a minimum, in addition to
> > any failed parts that need to be replaced.
>
> I understand.
> The question is one cost vs the other after I find the original
> failure.
> Thanks again.

I understand your attempt to save some money by doing what you can. Here's
how it goes. You spend maybe 30 bucks for a service port adapter, a can of
134a with a refill hose. You add the Freon through the low side port and
instantly hear it hissing out of the busted hose or blown fitting seal.
Good. Now you can replace the hose or whatever part is leaking yourself for
whatever the parts cost. Because you saw all that oil under the hood, it is
most likely a hose or fitting.. It might be the pop off valve on the
compressor that released because the high side pressure got to hi. In that
case you will not hear any leaks when you add Freon. You will then have to
find out why the pressure got too high. There are several things that could
cause this. Not enough air flow through the condenser (dirty fins, plastic
garbage from the road, cooling fan inoperative) or even a restriction
somewhere in the refrigerant system. For instance, the dryer desiccant bag
can rupture and clog the expansion valve witch would block the flow of
refrigerant. That would cause the high side pressure to increase above the
pop off valve setting. Unfortunately you will probably not be able to
diagnose this yourself. If you find a leaking component go ahead and replace
it and the dryer (always replace the dryer) yourself. Then have a shop
evacuated and recharge the system. At that time you can decide weather or
not to convert to 134a. If you do, the only difference will be the type of
refrigerant and oil the shop puts back in. If you decide to go back with
r12, it will be expensive. Only a licensed tech can purchase r12 and it cost
up to 200 dollars to refill a system with it.
You can expect the shop to refuse any warranty on the job because you
diagnosed and repaired the system yourself. They can't be responsible if
something goes wrong, and plenty could go wrong. There isn't enough time or
space here to go into all the details of complete A/C repairs. I spend about
five weeks with my students getting them to understand all the intricacies
of A/C work. If all goes well and you replace a busted hose, dryer, and
service port adapters, then have a shop evacuate and recharge with 134a, you
can expect to spend as much as a couple of hundred on the parts and another
couple of hundred on the shops labor. Probably not much less than an honest
shop would charge to diagnose and repair the same scenario, but then you
would have a warranty. Of course most shops have a great tendency to
overkill on A/C work so that they don't take any chances of having to eat a
come back repair. Most likely, if you just bring it in to a shop and say
"fix it" you will wind up with a 12 to 15 hundred dollar repair bill.


Good luck


--
Kevin Mouton
Automotive Technology Instructor
"If women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy"
Red Green