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Filtering a big pond



 
 
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  #11  
Old January 14th 06, 07:14 AM posted to rec.ponds
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Default Filtering a big pond

"I have very little runoff water, as far as water that drains directly into
the "pond." However, I do have a fair amount of water that gets into the
"pond" from underground. The hole is below the local water table, if I
don't constantly pump it out, it fills up from just the ground water. I'd
say it gets about 90% full in about a week, and then within two weeks it
tracks the level of the local water table fairly closely. "

Hi Galen,
This sounds like the key to your success right here. My brother-in-law has
a pond that is about two acres on his farm. It has no pumps or artificial
filters of any kind. I don't think he has ever had to add any type of
chemical either. What he did is simply this: He installed and overflow
pipe in the end oposite where the spring head is. It's set about an inch
or so below the natural level of the water table of his pond. This brings
in enough fresh water to purge any excessive nutrients, and also acts as a
skimmer to keep the top clean of dead insects, pollen, dust, leaves and
other small debris. He started with a small 4" pipe, but had to replace it
once because it clogged. Since the installation of a 6" pipe, he has had
no problems.
This is no kiddie pond either. It's big enough to take a row boat out on.
Some of the fish he catches from it are good for citations or dinner,
whatever you choose. And no need for intense treatment, equipment, energy
waste or labor once it's done. The pond will act as the settling tank with
the slow exchange of water. Nature will find her balance, if you give her
a chance. That big pump you have is just stirring up the muck. The
biofilter will naturally occur on it's own. But the bottom has to settle,
and you have to give that natural water a place to go. Prefferably a close
by natural stream.
Hope this helps. I wish I had your setup. It would save me thousands in
trying to recreate it artificially.

Respectfully,

--
Kevin
  #12  
Old January 14th 06, 07:35 AM posted to rec.ponds
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Default Filtering a big pond


"Galen Hekhuis" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 21:24:38 GMT, (Roy) wrote:

I would even
dose the pond with a strong dose of potassium permangante to oxidize
or basically sterilize any crap that may still be in there and
eliminate anay nutrients you already have....


Is that stuff you can throw in all at once or do you need to kind of
dispense it in, perhaps in the waterfall water?

========================
Before you use Potassium Permanganate please look it up on the net. You can
simply Google it or check out
www.koivet.com. This can be a dangerous
product to handle and use. Do NOT breathe the powder! Keep it off your
skin and you must also know the gallonage of your pond to dose it safely.
BE CAREFUL!
--

Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
NEW PAGE: Aquariums:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastada...ium-Page4.html
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o



  #13  
Old January 15th 06, 01:45 AM posted to rec.ponds
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Posts: n/a
Default Filtering a big pond

Mid posted.
Galen Hekhuis wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 14:13:18 -0600, "Koi-lo"
wrote:


"Galen Hekhuis" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 12:32:05 -0600, "Koi-lo"
wrote:


"Galen Hekhuis" wrote in message
...
I don't have any illusions about having crystal clear water
flowing in the pond, but it seems to me that constantly moving
the water through some sort of filter would eventually change it
from being just a mud puddle into something a little more eye
appealing.
================================
If it looks like a "mud puddle" and isn't very attractive I'd
plant water lilies. They'll spread and bloom giving you color.
They'll also shade the
water, starving the algae. Have you thought of Lotus? They can
really get
carried away but are beautiful.

Thanks. There are a bunch of water lilies growing out in the front
pond, I
can grab some and transplant them. Is there anything special I
need to watch out for? I had thought Lotus might be far too
demanding for my somewhat neglectful type of care.


Lotus need no care in a pond with a soil bottom. They're not
demanding unless you grow them in pots or tubs. They'll grow around
the edges mainly where the water is shallower. Their booms are
breathtaking! You can plant the water lilies where the water is
deeper, in the middle.


Far out. I'll try some of them.

Some type of floating waterpump (so it doesn't clog quickly) with
a few foamers would help keep it from getting stagnant and turning
into a mosquito
breeding pit.


Either mosquitoes don't bother me much or we don't seem to have as
many here as I expected when I moved here. In any event, I've got
a 3000 gal/hr
pump sucking up water (through a screen-type wastebasket) at one
end and the discharge hose almost at the other end, my intent to be
to get as much movement as I can, considering.


If the pump doesn't clog with silt and leaves that should help.
Keep if off the bottom if possible. If mosquitoes do become a
problem you can add some cheap feeder goldfish or even cheaper rosy
reds.


I've got a bunch of those mosquito eating minnows in my back pond, I
guess I'll be moving a bunch up to this pond. I'm not much of a fish
person, the real name of the fish I think starts with a "g."

I think the "g" is the start of gambusia. I believe they are technically
called mosquito fish as a common name. Wonderful tough little fish and they
really eat mosquito larvae. I bred some indoors once when I was young, my
first success with fish a long time ago. Mosquito fish are perfect for ponds
in my area as the temperature here is almost always mild. I've even seen
mosquito fish in the artificial (I think) stream outside the death valley,
california, usa visitor center and I never saw any mosquitos in that area.
Strangely enough I have seen allot of mosquitos at another death valley
location which had no open water that I know of. I prefer fancy guppies
indoors though, much more colorful but outdoors the mosquito fish's
temperature range is superior. Good luck and later!


My
brother was down here and pointed them out. They must work pretty
well; I sure don't notice many mosquitoes back there.

The screen on the wastebasket on the pump
will admit stuff that is about 1/4 inch or less, even though the
pump is supposed to handle solids up to 3/8 inch. On the discharge
side I have the
water running down one of the "banks" of the "pond." What type of
"floating" water pump would you recommend?


If it's running down the bank it'll probably keep your pond muddy,
unless the bank is rock. Since I don't use these type of floating
pumps I can't recommend any particular brand. I see them floating
and spraying in small ponds here in TN. It appears they're on some
kind of floating platform anchored in the place they're to stay. I
have no idea what kind of filter is attached to them to keep "junk"
from being sucked in. You can call your Agricultural Extension
Agent for someone in your county who would know. Sorry I can't be of
any more help.....


There are no rocks on this property at all. There isn't even a
pebble that I've found. It seems like there is only clay and sand,
but mostly clay, or mud when it is wet. I know if you go down deep
enough here there is limestone, there are limestone outcroppings and
stuff all along the Suwannee River, which is only about three miles
from here. This is kind of a plateau, at 145 feet above sea level it
is some of the highest ground around, but it is flat and doesn't
drain well. I would think that after water runs down a bank for
several months it would have washed away all the mud it could, but
maybe not.

As far as calling someone goes, I'm afraid that is not an option for
me. I have something called primary lateral sclerosis (it is
sometimes called a "gentler and kinder" form of ALS, or Lou Gehrig's
Disease) and I have pretty much lost my ability to talk (at least so
people can understand me), let alone walk. I still drive a mean
kayak, however, my upper body strength seems unaffected.

Hey, you've been a big help. I don't expect everyone to have all the
answers every time, there is no need to be sorry about it. I ask some
pretty basic and stupid (and repetitious, so I've been told)
questions that could probably be cleared up with a simple phone call.
But here I get to ask a bunch of people all at once, and anyway, I
think my questions are a bit more on topic than some of the folks
discussing evolution, or religion, or whatever...

Galen Hekhuis NpD, JFR, GWA
We are the CroMagnon of
the future



  #14  
Old January 15th 06, 02:12 AM posted to rec.ponds
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Default Filtering a big pond

I've got a bunch of those mosquito eating minnows in my back pond, I guess
I'll be moving a bunch up to this pond. I'm not much of a fish person, the
real name of the fish I think starts with a "g."


Probably gambusia.

As far as calling someone goes, I'm afraid that is not an option for me. I
have something called primary lateral sclerosis (it is sometimes called a
"gentler and kinder" form of ALS, or Lou Gehrig's Disease) and I have
pretty much lost my ability to talk (at least so people can understand me)


We have a ponder in our club with similar. Only he still can talk slowly.
Runs around in a motorized wheel chair. His upper body strength is devoted
to feeding his koi, and he has some BIG ones. :-)

Hey, you've been a big help. I don't expect everyone to have all the
answers every time, there is no need to be sorry about it. I ask some
pretty basic and stupid (and repetitious, so I've been told) questions that
could probably be cleared up with a simple phone call.


The nice thing about text, you can always refer back to it. I have a lot of
stuff on here from different posters over the years that I've put a lock on
(Agent Forte' users know what I mean) so they don't get deleted.

Believe me, it is a welcome sight to see a new *ponding* person post in
here. ) ~ jan

--------------
See my ponds and filter design:
www.jjspond.us

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website
  #15  
Old January 15th 06, 02:16 AM posted to rec.ponds
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Default Filtering a big pond

http://www.kascomarine.com/

Dig those 4 color lighted fountains, now that would be way cool. ~ jan


~ jan/WA
Zone 7a
  #16  
Old January 15th 06, 03:15 AM posted to rec.ponds
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Default Filtering a big pond

On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 17:16:58 -0800, ~ jan jjspond
wrote:

http://www.kascomarine.com/

Dig those 4 color lighted fountains, now that would be way cool. ~ jan


Since I've been plugging in the word "waterfall" and the like I've gotten
to some web pages with some really big pumps -- one place has a pump that
will do something like 8.5 million gallons per hour -- and they say to
contact them if you need something bigger. Before I was getting mostly
sites that served sort of ornamental ponds with a max size of about 5,000
gal. This place looks pretty neat too. As for the colored lights, I've
never been a big fan of those. I have been fussing with these solar
powered LED lights in the front yard, and have been fairly impressed. A
bunch of people handle these things, they are basically several LEDs in a
spotlight housing that has a solar panel on top with like 4 AA rechargeable
batteries. No fuss, no bother. You just stick 'em in the ground and they
automatically go on at night and off at dawn. Or so they claim. Actually,
if it has been overcast during the day they aren't going to do a whole lot
that night. But this is the "Sunshine State," so they work pretty well
here.

As for the pump, I don't really know if the pump I have is rated for
continuous duty, but I'm going to pretend it is. It's sitting in the pond
right now, pumping water into a hose that goes to the other end of the pond
and then just dumps it back in. I don't know if it is making the water
muddy or not, it couldn't get much muddier than it is right now. It kind
of makes a nice sound, and since nothing is growing around the pond or
living in it I guess it can't do any harm, except burn out the pump. I
intend to get an external pump, run the intake near the center of the
bottom of the pond, and run the discharge over the side of the pond. The
discharge will be able to range from a simple inclined plane into the pond,
to an actual spillway several feet high. The precise angle will be
determined by how much of a "splash" I want to make. I plan on using
something like a 6-7,000 gal/hr pump. I completely redid the plumbing in a
house I used to live in (including moving the kitchen from one room to
another), so I feel I can probably handle the plumbing involved, but are
there any major flaws folks can see with this type of set-up? Are there
special intake screens for this?

Anyway, thanks for all of y'alls responses to this, I've learned a lot. I
think I can get my brother-in-law to give me a hand setting up a place
where if anyone is interested they can see some pictures of this (hopefully
rapidly) transforming mud puddle.

Galen Hekhuis NpD, JFR, GWA
We are the CroMagnon of the future
  #17  
Old January 15th 06, 08:11 AM posted to rec.ponds
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Default Filtering a big pond

Galen,
I don't know if you are aware of why so many of us actually use pumps
in our ponds? It's because the ponds are artificial, and there is no
source for naturally occuring water movement and exchange. The pumps
help us to keep the water oxygenated also. If you have a source for
natural water transfer, by all means utilize it! Your acting like the
guy who struck silver in his mine, and all he has to do to harvest it,
is get rid of all those darn diamonds. Think about what your proposing
with all this pump activity. If you just want to play with big pumps .
.. . GREAT, go for it. You will eventually have quite a nice mud bog for
doing tractor pulls or whatever. If you want a nice clear pond, let the
darn thing settle, and possibly use the floating pump like the one man
suggested. It will move the surface around, allowing oxygenation,
without churning up the floor of the pond where all the soil is. Last
post for me regarding this situation. I now see what the other man was
talking about. You don't seem to want to learn, just rehash what you
already have set in your mind. If that pleases you, go right ahead. I
think you should go for the ten million GPH pump. Then you can strip
mine half the county while your at it! LOL

Kevin

  #18  
Old January 15th 06, 03:42 PM posted to rec.ponds
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Default Filtering a big pond

As long as the pond is essentially unstocked, all he has to do is a
demand test, and hit the pond with that dose......no need to be extra
cautious of gallons, if there is not any critters in it. and PP is no
more dangerous than opening a container of salt if a little common
sense is used......If I had a pond as such that was just constructed,
and it had unknown junk and god only knows what else in it, I
certaoinly would be doseing it with PP to sterilize it and knock out
any nasites that may be in it........Better to do it when its
unstocked than when its full of critters......Its always better to
start off with a clean slate than to have to jump in mid stream and
straighten things up later on......


As to your using an external pump........big mistake in a mucd bottom
pond......BIG BIG Mistake......YOu may have a pond in a local where
other folks have a pond but theirs may have a liner, and the
environment is similar, but your gonna have so much more critters in
that natural mud bottom pond that is gonna take up residence in your
submerged plumbing lines and its not going to take too long before
they are all inundated with all kinds of growths from aquatic
critters, which will eventually work their way into the filter or
basket strainer and make for some nice blockages.......Its inevitable.

Your sump type pump you have ben usuing is destined to be trashed if
yur gonna run it continuously...its not designed for it, no sump type
pump typically is, its intermeittent duty. Forget about your total
gallon capacity or how large an area you have and just get a pump that
will provide sufficient head pressure to enable it to spray water
upwards and outwards to make the surface agitated, and you have your
problem solved........Recirculating or turning over your entire pond
is just not feasible. In time it will turn over and do so much better
with surface aeration, not overall turnover unles syou like mud and
current induced holes and washout......

NO more froom me on your project, I said it more than once, so either
take it or leave it. Its getting old stating over and over the same
stuff, and if you were to contact perhaps the best authority on your
or any other pond, you would get the same identical info that was
given here. That authority is University of Florida........its free
info from me and the U of F dude, so take it or leave it , it is not
costing you anything to use it......However odds are your gonna pay
down the orad when you follow info presented by idiiots like Koi lo
who does not have the first clue or experieince with any natural
pondsm cept maybe a mud puddle in her driveway, and all those pack a
sack storage boxes she steals to use as fish ponds..........

Good luck to you in what ever you decide to do.............bye!

On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 00:35:17 -0600, "Koi-lo"
wrote:

"Galen Hekhuis" wrote in message
m...
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 21:24:38 GMT, (Roy) wrote:
I would even
dose the pond with a strong dose of potassium permangante to oxidize
or basically sterilize any crap that may still be in there and
eliminate anay nutrients you already have....

Is that stuff you can throw in all at once or do you need to kind of
dispense it in, perhaps in the waterfall water?
========================
Before you use Potassium Permanganate please look it up on the net. You can
simply Google it or check out
www.koivet.com. This can be a dangerous
product to handle and use. Do NOT breathe the powder! Keep it off your
skin and you must also know the gallonage of your pond to dose it safely.
BE CAREFUL!


--
\\\|///
( @ @ )
-----------oOOo(_)oOOo---------------


oooO
---------( )----Oooo----------------
\ ( ( )
\_) ) /
(_/
The original frugal ponder! Koi-ahoi mates....
  #19  
Old January 15th 06, 05:05 PM posted to rec.ponds
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Posts: n/a
Default Filtering a big pond

On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 14:42:01 GMT, (Roy) wrote:

As long as the pond is essentially unstocked, all he has to do is a
demand test, and hit the pond with that dose......no need to be extra
cautious of gallons, if there is not any critters in it. and PP is no
more dangerous than opening a container of salt if a little common
sense is used......If I had a pond as such that was just constructed,
and it had unknown junk and god only knows what else in it, I
certaoinly would be doseing it with PP to sterilize it and knock out
any nasites that may be in it........Better to do it when its
unstocked than when its full of critters......Its always better to
start off with a clean slate than to have to jump in mid stream and
straighten things up later on......


I may do that, and then again, I may not. Being a cave explorer, and being
extremely sensitive to underwater speleology especially here, I am very
reluctant to be putting out any kind of chemical anywhere on the ground (or
in a pond). I'm even a little skittish about septic sewage treatment
systems, though I'm far less concerned about human waste than what other
goodies people throw in toilets.

As to your using an external pump........big mistake in a mucd bottom
pond......BIG BIG Mistake......YOu may have a pond in a local where
other folks have a pond but theirs may have a liner, and the
environment is similar, but your gonna have so much more critters in
that natural mud bottom pond that is gonna take up residence in your
submerged plumbing lines and its not going to take too long before
they are all inundated with all kinds of growths from aquatic
critters, which will eventually work their way into the filter or
basket strainer and make for some nice blockages.......Its inevitable.


As for the line which runs down the bank to the intake, we are talking some
20-30 feet of pipeline at the most, not exactly a budget buster if it has
to be replaced, but I would imagine drying it out and cleaning it would
probably suffice. The intake strainer itself can likewise be dried and
cleaned. I would imagine the underground line can likewise be dried and/or
cleaned. Everything else should be pretty exposed and easy to get to. Mud
and silt may be a problem, though, I guess I'll find out.

Your sump type pump you have ben usuing is destined to be trashed if
yur gonna run it continuously...its not designed for it, no sump type
pump typically is, its intermeittent duty.


Other pumps that I have seen advertised with the magic words "continuous
duty" look much like mine, and the internal design is almost identical.
There are many, many pumps that work fairly continuously that may not have
the words "continuous duty" in their ads. Perhaps the term "sump pump" is
not entirely correct, although that is exactly how some of these
"continuous duty" pumps are advertised.

Forget about your total
gallon capacity or how large an area you have and just get a pump that
will provide sufficient head pressure to enable it to spray water
upwards and outwards to make the surface agitated, and you have your
problem solved........Recirculating or turning over your entire pond
is just not feasible. In time it will turn over and do so much better
with surface aeration, not overall turnover unles syou like mud and
current induced holes and washout......


Now there is a contradiction in your own statement. You tell me that
recirculating the water is not feasible, then in the next sentence you tell
me it will do so over time.

NO more froom me on your project, I said it more than once, so either
take it or leave it. Its getting old stating over and over the same
stuff, and if you were to contact perhaps the best authority on your
or any other pond, you would get the same identical info that was
given here. That authority is University of Florida........its free
info from me and the U of F dude, so take it or leave it , it is not
costing you anything to use it......However odds are your gonna pay
down the orad when you follow info presented by idiiots like Koi lo
who does not have the first clue or experieince with any natural
pondsm cept maybe a mud puddle in her driveway, and all those pack a
sack storage boxes she steals to use as fish ponds..........

Good luck to you in what ever you decide to do.............bye!


I guess I'll just have to stumble on then. In a while from now you may be
hearing me tell people exactly why they shouldn't use a set up like this
from personal experience. Then again, you may be a bit surprised to see
pictures about how such a rig can work very well.

Galen Hekhuis NpD, JFR, GWA

We are the CroMagnon of the future
  #20  
Old January 15th 06, 05:05 PM posted to rec.ponds
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Filtering a big pond

On 14 Jan 2006 23:11:32 -0800, "Kevin" wrote:

Galen,
I don't know if you are aware of why so many of us actually use pumps
in our ponds? It's because the ponds are artificial, and there is no
source for naturally occuring water movement and exchange. The pumps
help us to keep the water oxygenated also. If you have a source for
natural water transfer, by all means utilize it!


I don't have such, nor do I think I have implied that I do. If I did, it
was a mistake. Let me clarify that now, I have no source for natural water
transfer at this pond. (By the way, I think most people have pumps in
their ponds because they are maintaining "large aquariums," and thus need
some type of aeration and possibly filtration.)

Your acting like the
guy who struck silver in his mine, and all he has to do to harvest it,
is get rid of all those darn diamonds. Think about what your proposing
with all this pump activity. If you just want to play with big pumps .
. . GREAT, go for it. You will eventually have quite a nice mud bog for
doing tractor pulls or whatever. If you want a nice clear pond, let the
darn thing settle, and possibly use the floating pump like the one man
suggested. It will move the surface around, allowing oxygenation,
without churning up the floor of the pond where all the soil is.


I have one pond on the property that must have a spring in it somewhere,
but I haven't found it. It never seems to change water level, and has a
constant outflow from it. The pond feeds a small stream with about as much
flow as I saw from the output from the pump I used to dewater the pond I'm
working with. The feed spring is probably up in the swampy part of the
woods where I can't take my kayak, I've been looking over the areas where I
can get and haven't found a thing yet. It is a natural, mud bottom yet the
pond itself doesn't seem muddy or anything, despite there being water
movement (albeit slow) all year long.

Last
post for me regarding this situation. I now see what the other man was
talking about. You don't seem to want to learn, just rehash what you
already have set in your mind. If that pleases you, go right ahead. I
think you should go for the ten million GPH pump. Then you can strip
mine half the county while your at it! LOL


From what I have read about them, floating type aeration pumps agitate not
only the surface of the water but the commonly the water underneath to a
depth of 3-5 feet, depending on the exact pump and placement conditions.
It doesn't seem to me that a low velocity intake for a pump would cause
that much more disturbance. What may seem to you to be an unwillingness to
learn is probably my lack of understanding as to why one type of water
disturbance is supposed to be more harmful than another type of
disturbance.

Galen Hekhuis NpD, JFR, GWA
We are the CroMagnon of the future
 




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