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Seeking additional info abour repairs to a Jeep



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 7th 05, 10:29 PM
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Default Seeking additional info abour repairs to a Jeep

I have been quoted some prices on some potential repairs to my 95 Jeep
Wrangler, but being a non-technical owner (I just drive the thing, I
don't know how it works) I have a hard time understanding these
problems, guaging how important they really are, and guessing whether
or not I am getting a decent price.

I do trust this particular mechanic, and they are not presenting these
problems to me as high-importance must-fix-for-safe-operation problems,
but I would still appreciate it if some of you knowledgable jeep-people
could offer your opinions on these:

1) What is a "Rear Main Seal". How important is a leak in one? Is it
worth over $400 to fix?

2) What is the transmissions "Transfer Case Seal"? How important is a
leak in it? Is it worth over $300 to fix?

3) What is an "Induction Flush" how important is it? Is it worth approx
$150 to have done?

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  #2  
Old July 7th 05, 10:45 PM
DougW
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Default

Bob-googlegroups did pass the time by typing:
> I have been quoted some prices on some potential repairs to my 95 Jeep
> Wrangler, but being a non-technical owner (I just drive the thing, I
> don't know how it works) I have a hard time understanding these
> problems, guaging how important they really are, and guessing whether
> or not I am getting a decent price.
>
> I do trust this particular mechanic, and they are not presenting these
> problems to me as high-importance must-fix-for-safe-operation problems,
> but I would still appreciate it if some of you knowledgable jeep-people
> could offer your opinions on these:
>
> 1) What is a "Rear Main Seal". How important is a leak in one? Is it
> worth over $400 to fix?


The rear-main-seal is on the engine output shaft. It's two C shaped bits
of rubber, one that fits into the engine block and the other that lays on
the back of the oil pan. Understand that a lot of "rear main seal" leaks
are actually the rear of the valve cover, especially on the 4.0 I6. Always
check there first as rear main seals last quite a long time.

End result is your jeep will drip oil on the garage. Keep an eye on the
oil level and it's not that big of a deal.

> 2) What is the transmissions "Transfer Case Seal"? How important is a
> leak in it? Is it worth over $300 to fix?


That's the output shaft seal and probably bushing. Unless it's a gusher
all it does is drip a bit of tranny fluid on the driveway. Check fluids
regularly.

> 3) What is an "Induction Flush" how important is it? Is it worth approx
> $150 to have done?


That's a can-o-cleaner they put into the fuel rail and run through your
engine, including running stuff down the throttle body. It cleans out
carbon deposits and fuel injectors. Not a bad thing and not unreasonable
for the price, although if your engine is in fairly good shape there are
good in-tank cleaners available. Techron for one.

The prices you were quoted aren't unreasonable for the mechanics time.
And if you trust the mechanics work that's better than saving a buck
and getting a crap job done.

I'd still have a look at that rear main seal vs/ valve cover leak first.
All that take is reaching behind the motor and wiping the block off
just below the valve cover. Then after you drive it and let it cool,
go back there and wipe again. If you come up with oil, that's the
source. It leaks from the back and runs down. Does a good impersonation
of a rear main seal leak.


The parts themselves aren't expensive, it's the time. That's why lots
of us do our own wrenching. The money saved allows us to buy more toys.

--
-- DougW -- 93 ZJ 4.0 http://members.cox.net/wilsond
HESCO Supercharger - 300W IASCA Stereo - Edelbrock IAS Shocks
Gibson Exhaust - rear DCpower - custom gauge install - Stillen Rotors
Banks Header - and BEER, in the fridge!



  #3  
Old July 7th 05, 10:47 PM
Jeff Strickland
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Posts: n/a
Default


> wrote in message
oups.com...
> I have been quoted some prices on some potential repairs to my 95 Jeep
> Wrangler, but being a non-technical owner (I just drive the thing, I
> don't know how it works) I have a hard time understanding these
> problems, guaging how important they really are, and guessing whether
> or not I am getting a decent price.
>
> I do trust this particular mechanic, and they are not presenting these
> problems to me as high-importance must-fix-for-safe-operation problems,
> but I would still appreciate it if some of you knowledgable jeep-people
> could offer your opinions on these:
>
> 1) What is a "Rear Main Seal". How important is a leak in one? Is it
> worth over $400 to fix?
>


If, and that's a big I-F, the rear main is really leaking, then it would
take about $400 to fix. The part - the rear main seal - is about $30, and
the oil pan gasket set is another $30 or so. That's $60 for gaskets and $340
for labor. That is a bit on the high side, but not hugely on the high side.
I don't think your rear main is the problem, the Valve Cover Gasket is the
more likely culprit.




> 2) What is the transmissions "Transfer Case Seal"? How important is a
> leak in it? Is it worth over $300 to fix?
>


This is a tough one. The tcase does have seals on the front and the back,
and if the seals are leaking then you need to have them replaced. It is a
job that most of us will tackle at home, but you said that you don't do any
service more complicated than filling the gas tank, so you will be subjected
to the going rate at the service center. If the repairs you listed up here,
this is the one that has the best chance of actually being needed. The Rear
Main is probably a valve cover gasket, and the injector cleaner is stuff
that you can pour into the gas tank yourself. I suggest you pass on the
injector service, have the shop take a close look at the valve cover --
particularly the portion near the firewall -- and get a second opinion on
the tcase.



> 3) What is an "Induction Flush" how important is it? Is it worth approx
> $150 to have done?
>


This is a giant bottle of snake oil. You can buy a few small bottles of
snake oil at the auto parts store and pour one in with every fill up for the
next several weeks.

Snake Oil is a bit of a misnomer, but you can buy Fuel Injector Cleaner for
about 5 bucks per bottle, and throw one in with a fill up, and follow that
with the next fill up or two, then add one bottle with each fill up when you
do an oil change and this should keep the injectors clean and trouble free.
There is nothing with this service to warrant a service ticket for $150.




  #4  
Old July 7th 05, 11:08 PM
Ruel Smith
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Posts: n/a
Default


> wrote in message
oups.com...
>I have been quoted some prices on some potential repairs to my 95 Jeep
> Wrangler, but being a non-technical owner (I just drive the thing, I
> don't know how it works) I have a hard time understanding these
> problems, guaging how important they really are, and guessing whether
> or not I am getting a decent price.
>
> I do trust this particular mechanic, and they are not presenting these
> problems to me as high-importance must-fix-for-safe-operation problems,
> but I would still appreciate it if some of you knowledgable jeep-people
> could offer your opinions on these:
>
> 1) What is a "Rear Main Seal". How important is a leak in one? Is it
> worth over $400 to fix?


Depends on how much it leaks. It can leak onto your clutch, giving your some
slip when first used in the morning, until the oil burns off. It can also
leave nasty stains in yours, and others' driveways. However, it's nothing
major and even if you fix it, it will return. I've had my rear main seal
repaired twice, only for it to leak again. This is very common to the inline
six.

The rear main seal is exactly what it sounds like: the rear seal of the
engine on the crank. It's costly to repair because of the 4WD system. They
have to drop your skidplate, disconnect both driveshafts, pull the
transmission + transfer case out of the engine, remove the clutch, drop the
oil pan (possibly unmount the engine from the mounts and jack it up for
clearance, and replace the seal and oil pan gasket and reverse the
procedure. The parts aren't much, but the labor involved is murder.

> 2) What is the transmissions "Transfer Case Seal"? How important is a
> leak in it? Is it worth over $300 to fix?


Easily fixed on your own if you're even slightly mechanically inclined. I'm
not sure if this is referring to the seal joining both halves of the
transfer case, or the seal around the yoke. Either way, it's not difficult
to replace.

> 3) What is an "Induction Flush" how important is it? Is it worth approx
> $150 to have done?


Many mechanics recommend it. Basically, they hook up a bottle of some high
powered cleaner to your fuel rail, I believe, and clean out all the gunk in
there. They also clean out your throttlebody too. I've had my intake off to
repair the exhaust header, and there gets to be quite a bit of gunk in
there. I scraped it out and used carb cleaner to clean it all, including the
throttlebody, out before I put it all back together. I did noticed slighly
more power when I was done, but nothing to write home about since it has
147,000 miles on it.

You can buy some of that high powered fuel injection cleaner you put in your
tank from STP, Slick 50, etc. and get about half the cleaning that
professional job gives you. Those cans cost between $8 and $10.

http://www.slick50.com/


  #5  
Old July 8th 05, 02:53 AM
Steve W.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


> wrote in message
oups.com...
> I have been quoted some prices on some potential repairs to my 95 Jeep
> Wrangler, but being a non-technical owner (I just drive the thing, I
> don't know how it works) I have a hard time understanding these
> problems, guaging how important they really are, and guessing whether
> or not I am getting a decent price.
>
> I do trust this particular mechanic, and they are not presenting these
> problems to me as high-importance must-fix-for-safe-operation

problems,
> but I would still appreciate it if some of you knowledgable

jeep-people
> could offer your opinions on these:
>
> 1) What is a "Rear Main Seal". How important is a leak in one? Is it
> worth over $400 to fix?


Rear main seal is the one piece seal that closes the area between the
engines crankshaft and the engine block. If this is a 4.0 engine this is
a VERY common problem with them. Leakage there depends on how bad it
actually is. Put a piece of cardboard or paper under the rear of the
engine and see what shows up in 24 hours. IF you have a spot on the
cardboard the size of a dime or smaller don't worry about it for now. If
it is between a dime and a quarter then if you can spare the vehicle for
the time required and have the money get it repaired 400.00 is about
correct since it is a rather involved repair. Especially on a 4X4. If it
is over a 50 cent piece get it changed out ASAP since you are losing
quite a bit of oil.


>
> 2) What is the transmissions "Transfer Case Seal"? How important is a
> leak in it? Is it worth over $300 to fix?


About the same as a rear main seal BUT since the transfer case is
difficult to fill and check it would be a good idea to get it changed
out if it is leaking more than a drop or two per day. If it is just damp
around it don't worry about it.


>
> 3) What is an "Induction Flush" how important is it? Is it worth

approx
> $150 to have done?
>
>

150 would be a bit high for just an injector cleaning, BUT if they are
doing injector cleaning and top end cleaning then it isn't too bad.



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  #6  
Old July 8th 05, 02:53 AM
Daniel J. Stern
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Posts: n/a
Default

On Thu, 7 Jul 2005, DougW wrote:

> > 3) What is an "Induction Flush" how important is it? Is it worth
> > approx $150 to have done?


> That's a can-o-cleaner they put into the fuel rail and run through your
> engine, including running stuff down the throttle body. It cleans out
> carbon deposits and fuel injectors. Not a bad thing and not
> unreasonable for the price


Are you high? There's nothing in that $150 "induction flush" that cannot
be achieved with a $16 bottle of Chevron Techron or BG 44K.

  #7  
Old July 8th 05, 03:05 AM
Daniel J. Stern
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Posts: n/a
Default

On Thu, 7 Jul 2005, Steve W. wrote:

> Rear main seal is the one piece seal that closes the area between the
> engines crankshaft and the engine block. If this is a 4.0 engine this is
> a VERY common problem with them.


Not as common as a leak at the back of the rocker cover *mimicking* a rear
main seal leak, as others have pointed out.

> > 3) What is an "Induction Flush" how important is it? Is it worth
> > approx $150 to have done?


> 150 would be a bit high for just an injector cleaning, BUT if they are
> doing injector cleaning and top end cleaning then it isn't too bad.


Um...not. There is no such a thing as them "doing a top end cleaning,
too". The stuff they hook up to the fuel rail is injector and top-end
cleaner. So is the stuff in the bottle labelled "TECHRON" or the can
labelled "BG 44K" that you buy for $16 and pour in the fuel tank.

Even if we assume that removal and thorough cleaning of the throttle body
and AIS were included, $150 is kinda rich.
  #8  
Old July 8th 05, 03:19 AM
Stephen Cowell
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Posts: n/a
Default


"Jeff Strickland" > wrote in message =
...

....

> > 3) What is an "Induction Flush" how important is it? Is it worth =

approx
> > $150 to have done?
> >

>=20
> This is a giant bottle of snake oil. You can buy a few small bottles =

of
> snake oil at the auto parts store and pour one in with every fill up =

for the
> next several weeks.


Or just use Chevron gasoline... Shell gas also has
the high-tech additives in it now. This is one service
you don't need... major boondoggle.
__
Steve
..

  #9  
Old July 8th 05, 06:54 AM
DougW
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Posts: n/a
Default

Daniel J. Stern did pass the time by typing:
> On Thu, 7 Jul 2005, DougW wrote:
>
>>> 3) What is an "Induction Flush" how important is it? Is it worth
>>> approx $150 to have done?

>
>> That's a can-o-cleaner they put into the fuel rail and run through your
>> engine, including running stuff down the throttle body. It cleans out
>> carbon deposits and fuel injectors. Not a bad thing and not
>> unreasonable for the price

>
> Are you high? There's nothing in that $150 "induction flush" that cannot
> be achieved with a $16 bottle of Chevron Techron or BG 44K.


I'm not high and that $16 bottle of techron has no where near the cleaning
capability of the stuff they feed directly into the rail. I prefer to use
this system though. http://www.motorvac.com/ Average cost is $99 and it
takes about half an hour.

--
-- DougW -- 93 ZJ 4.0 http://members.cox.net/wilsond
HESCO Supercharger - 300W IASCA Stereo - Edelbrock IAS Shocks
Gibson Exhaust - rear DCpower - custom gauge install - Stillen Rotors
Banks Header - and BEER, in the fridge!


  #10  
Old July 8th 05, 07:53 AM
Will Honea
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Fri, 8 Jul 2005 01:53:10 UTC "Steve W." > wrote:

>
> > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> > I have been quoted some prices on some potential repairs to my 95 Jeep
> > Wrangler, but being a non-technical owner (I just drive the thing, I
> > don't know how it works) I have a hard time understanding these
> > problems, guaging how important they really are, and guessing whether
> > or not I am getting a decent price.
> >
> > I do trust this particular mechanic, and they are not presenting these
> > problems to me as high-importance must-fix-for-safe-operation

> problems,
> > but I would still appreciate it if some of you knowledgable

> jeep-people
> > could offer your opinions on these:
> >
> > 1) What is a "Rear Main Seal". How important is a leak in one? Is it
> > worth over $400 to fix?

>
> Rear main seal is the one piece seal that closes the area between the
> engines crankshaft and the engine block. If this is a 4.0 engine this is
> a VERY common problem with them. Leakage there depends on how bad it
> actually is. Put a piece of cardboard or paper under the rear of the
> engine and see what shows up in 24 hours. IF you have a spot on the
> cardboard the size of a dime or smaller don't worry about it for now. If
> it is between a dime and a quarter then if you can spare the vehicle for
> the time required and have the money get it repaired 400.00 is about
> correct since it is a rather involved repair. Especially on a 4X4. If it
> is over a 50 cent piece get it changed out ASAP since you are losing
> quite a bit of oil.
>
>
> >
> > 2) What is the transmissions "Transfer Case Seal"? How important is a
> > leak in it? Is it worth over $300 to fix?

>
> About the same as a rear main seal BUT since the transfer case is
> difficult to fill and check it would be a good idea to get it changed
> out if it is leaking more than a drop or two per day. If it is just damp
> around it don't worry about it.
>
>
> >
> > 3) What is an "Induction Flush" how important is it? Is it worth

> approx
> > $150 to have done?
> >
> >

> 150 would be a bit high for just an injector cleaning, BUT if they are
> doing injector cleaning and top end cleaning then it isn't too bad.


4.0 rear main seal is 2-piece, not one. Tranny does not have to come
off the replace it and it's definitely not a $400 job. Took me 2
hours to change mine - and half od that was getting the old pan gasket
off so the new one would seal. Pay attention to the advice - put a
rag behind the rear of the engine under the valve cover and see if
that's where the "rear main" leak really is. That's a lot more common
than a rear main (mine was over 150k before it really did start to
leak).

--
Will Honea
 




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