Damn, I won't be buying GTR afterall

Steve Simpson wrote:
> If a relatively insignificant thing like Starforce causes you to miss out on
> a piece of sim history then you need to get your priorities right. Some
> people pretend to have such high moral fibre and yet they're really just
> scared of the unknown and are too lazy to try to understand it.

And some people actually HAVE high moral fibre, and are extremely
concerned about the potential "mission creep" of such unnecessary software.

As we all know, if you were going to buy this game/sim, this will make
no difference. For those who were going pirate it, likewise, this will
make no difference. It will however install yet more unnecessary
arbitrary clutter onto a Windows machine, and let's face it, THAT is
just asking for trouble :-)

"Darus" wrote...
> So you are saying that if GTR (which is hailed by many as
> the ULTIMATE SIM TO DATE) doesn't install out of the box,
> then then the poor noobie will go to consoles? Good.
>
> Why would such a person even BUY a true sim like GTR, it
> isn't NFS (i.e. an arcade racer) where you load the game,
> set the controls and then off to the races. If they can't
> comprehend how to dload patches and keep their rig up to
> date, then how is this poor soul going to handle complex
> setups for GTR and be able to use MOTEC?

Er... in which way do understanding vehicle setups and the ability to use
MOTEC relate to being computer savvy?

A lot of people's jobs/hobbies involve a complex subjectmatter and require
them to be intelligent, but only a small portion of them is computer savvy.

As our hobby is essentially computer related, those who persevere with it
will pick up the nescessary skills as they go along(*), but I also think
it's important to not scare away that first time user. I'd rather resort to
my bark/bite if he/she turns out to be a PITA, than have them quit from the
off.

Jan.
=---
(*)Rem.: I didn't know much about computers when I started out. Luckily,
Crammond's GP1 worked out of the box. ;-)

Todd Walker wrote:

> In the early 90s I used a Commodore Amiga. I was FAR superior to
> anything in the PC world at the time, and the PC didn't catch up until
> the late 90s. The Amiga should be a force in the market today but it's
> not. Why? Two reasons: 1. the idiots who ran Commodore; 2. software
> piracy. Most Amiga games were'nt copy protected and piracy was rampant
> in the Amiga community.

I was also heavily into Amiga, and remember it being heavily
copy-protected. Trouble was, as today, the "scene" cracks everything and
distributes it. I really can't see that changing, and anti-piracy
actions will stop the same miniscule percentage of pirates now as they
did then, and confusticate the same proportion of legitimate owners.

John

Darus wrote:
> So you are saying that if GTR (which is hailed by many as the ULTIMATE
> SIM TO DATE) doesn't install out of the box, then then the poor noobie
> will go to consoles? Good.
>
> Why would such a person even BUY a true sim like GTR, it isn't NFS
> (i.e. an arcade racer) where you load the game, set the controls and
> then off to the races. If they can't comprehend how to dload patches
> and keep their rig up to date, then how is this poor soul going to
> handle complex setups for GTR and be able to use MOTEC?

Darus, believe it or not, you were a poor noobie once upon a time, as
was everyone here.

(Actually my wife may reckon it would be better if I had switched over
to a console, as she's watched me at Grand Prix, ICR, GPL etc etc over
the years!)

Uwe Schürkamp wrote:
>>Todd, piracy had stuff-all to do with the demise of the Amiga.

> I had hoped somebody besides me would point that out. Thanks Bruce ;-)
>
> "They should cane the little brown fscker" is a famous quote by who,
> uttered when and where? ;-)



Commodore employee (don't remember her name though) in Dave H's Deathbed
Vigil video.

Referring to Mehdi Ali, a name that will (and should) forever live on in
infamy.




Do I win a prize..?


Regards, Rudy (former staff editor of the Dutch Amiga Magazine)
(GPLRank -24)

Agreed, I was a poor noobie once and I have learned a lot since then.
So why can't the "dissenters" here do the same and learn about the
various copy protection schemes and how they (FOR THE MOST PART) do not
negatively affect most computer OS's and other hard/software. Sure,
there are exceptions just as those who have stutter problems with GTR,
some have relief with the VBSTRATEGY=0 fix, where others see no
difference.

Aside from the handful of ppl. here in RAS, I haven't read anything
about significant problems installing GTR, whereas GTP which AFAIK does
not contain copy protection of an kind, caused havoc with tons of ppl.
Perhaps we should flame on about Redline Dev. and their lousy install
routine?

As far as setups and telemetry having anything to do with one another,
I was simply (apparently unsuccessfully) trying to show that a simple
and very common task such as dloading a patch or updating drivers is
far more easy to handle than trying to fix an understeer problem. I
have been using racing sims for a long time (Indy 500 & Bill Elliott
Racing for Amiga) and still haven't mastered the art of setting up a
car properly. So we need to protect the innocent from copy protection
but throw them to the wolves when it comes to making a GT car drivable
for someone who saw the title on shelf and said "Wow, cool, a racecar
game!"? :shrug:

"Darus" wrote:

> As far as setups and telemetry having anything to do with one another,
> I was simply (apparently unsuccessfully) trying to show that a simple
> and very common task such as dloading a patch or updating drivers is
> far more easy to handle than trying to fix an understeer problem. I
> have been using racing sims for a long time (Indy 500 & Bill Elliott
> Racing for Amiga) and still haven't mastered the art of setting up a
> car properly. So we need to protect the innocent from copy protection
> but throw them to the wolves when it comes to making a GT car drivable
> for someone who saw the title on shelf and said "Wow, cool, a racecar
> game!"? :shrug:

Although I understand your point, being suitably adept at racing and
computers doesn't necessarily go hand in hand. I am sure many very good real
life professional drivers are clueless with a PC. Equally many highly
intelligent people who would enjoy a first class sim may not have sufficient
PC expertise to even know where to look to find a fix for a game they have
just installed and may simply not have the time nor inclination to learn.

To be honest, I don't care what the reasons are, just the effect on ME.

Yes, that may be selfish, but I am the one paying out the hard earned money
so I believe I have a right to be selfish

-Larry

"Mitch_A" > wrote in message
...
> Larry wrote:
>
>> If it doesn't stay within it's own domain (the game), and alters my
>> system
>> or adds background tasks, then I'll be skipping over it too.
>>
>> I purchased HL2 and I am VERY upset with how it works (Steam). I haven't
>> played it more than 15 min since I bought it.
>>
>> I want to sell it, but because of the draconian system that's involved I
>> don't even know if that's possible.
>>
>> -Larry
>>
>> "Chris Pound" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Because they are putting Starforce protection drivers in it. Even the
>>> freaking demo has Starforce in it. I didn't buy HL2 because of Steam
>>> and I certainly won't buy anymore games with Starforce after buying
>>> Toca2. I classify Starforce as a Trojan. Look it up.
>
> Honestly Larry I think your blaming the wrong crowd. Youre aiming at the
> "easy" tgt instead of the crooks whose fault this really is. We live in
> an
> era of "lowest common denominator" sadly and its only going to get worse
> so
> Id suggest hanging up the PC now before you give yourself a heart attack
>
>
> Up till recently the internet has been the wild wild west of our
> generation.
> Do you think its now ok to go around shooting people at a poker table now
> as it was in 1880? Well thats how future generations will look back and
> see this time period of the internet IMO. I could be wrong but history
> sets a pretty good example.
>
> Mitch
> --
> Remove "nospam." to reply.
> SuSE 9.2 Pro KDE 3.3.2a

You don't own two very large, very inquisitive Gold Retrievers.

I used to own the movie "Antz". I don't any more. Well, not all of it at
least.

-Larry

"Darus" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Lots of good points here, but I have never bought the "backup copy"
> excuse. I have *never* had a CD rendered useless though misuse or loss.
> What are you doing with these CD's that has forced you to try and make
> a "backup" of it? I mean I take out CD's and toss them onto my desktop
> all the time and some of them (GPL for one) don't look factory fresh,
> but all of them read perfectly.
>
> I do agree that the Mfg's won't be crawling to our doors trying to sell
> software to us due to Steam, Starforce, etc., but neither will they for
> the relatively small number of "alternative" purchase locations.
>
> If the latest demo has the protection as reported and the full version
> runs as well as the demo, then I have no problem with the software
> company at least (in their minds) trying to protect their property.
>

I can't help but bring up a bit of Irony here...

Anyone with TRS-80 Roots can't help but remember a program called
"SuperUtility Plus".

This was THE disk-copying, protection breaking king of Utilities for this
machine.

This program had basically one purpose in life, and that was to back up or
copy so-called Copy-Protected Software.

It's Ironic that SuperUtility Plus itself was VERY heavily copy protected,
down to purposefully manufactured physical defects in the media itself.

No. It would not copy itself. Until it was hacked, of course. You just
can't toss a challange out like that and expect to win

-Larry

"John Wallace" > wrote in message
...
> Todd Walker wrote:
>
>> In the early 90s I used a Commodore Amiga. I was FAR superior to anything
>> in the PC world at the time, and the PC didn't catch up until the late
>> 90s. The Amiga should be a force in the market today but it's not. Why?
>> Two reasons: 1. the idiots who ran Commodore; 2. software piracy. Most
>> Amiga games were'nt copy protected and piracy was rampant in the Amiga
>> community.
>
> I was also heavily into Amiga, and remember it being heavily
> copy-protected. Trouble was, as today, the "scene" cracks everything and
> distributes it. I really can't see that changing, and anti-piracy actions
> will stop the same miniscule percentage of pirates now as they did then,
> and confusticate the same proportion of legitimate owners.
>
> John