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#11
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R. P. wrote:
> "jim beam" > wrote: > >> too much atf would mean all kinds of wierdness on the shift and fluid >> leakage - assuming you didn't blow any control valves. >> >> when you say there's too much, are you measuring with the motor >> running? on a honda, the motor is supposed to be *off*, unlike almost >> every other automatic out there... > > > I measured it with the engine off but still warm. That's how the Owner's > Guide specifies it. good! not everyone does that... > >> if there is too much, it's easy to fix - just drain & refill with the >> correct amount of honda atf. sounds like you need to do that anyway. > > > It sure looks like I need it. > >> regarding growling, it could be a bearing. but check the motor mounts >> first. put it in park, with the brake off, then rock the car back & >> forth & see how the mounts behave. > > > It's not that kind of growling. It's more like something related to > belts and only when I am accelerating or slowing down with engine brake. > Once I am at a steady speed on a straight stretch of road I cannot hear > it. Gear shifting is also rougher than usual. > > Rudy how many miles since last timing belt change? are you losing coolant? may be a water pump [or alternator] bearing. |
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#12
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"jim beam" > wrote:
> how many miles since last timing belt change? are you losing coolant? > may be a water pump [or alternator] bearing. I doubt it as I had the timing belt and water pump replaced 25,000 miles ago. Actually, my last service was a small scheduled maint. service, like the one performed at 22,500 miles and it was performed at a Honda service shop. The previous more major scheduled maintenance visit and later an oil change-only visit was at that independent shop I mentioned. Those are the guys I suspect screwing up my previously well running car because they installed a remanufactured Delco distributor in place of the leaking original one and they also probably used a non-Honda ATF. After that I immediately noticed that faint whine from under the hood that seemed to vary with the RPM but I did not pay much attention to it then. I was more concerned by the low torque at idle speed, causing me several stalls during starts while the engine was warm. The AT related issues however bacame more noticeable in the last couple weeks, even though I had that last (minor) maintenance service performed at a Honda dealer since then. I was just checking the work sheet of that service and it does show a check mark at the item, titled "Check all fluid levels, condition of fluids and check for leaks, if needed add transmission fluid, engine coolant,brake fluid, power steering fluid and windshield washer fluid." So now I wonder if the Honda mechanic just blindly added more ATF and overfilling it, or he just left in the original fluid from the independent shop. I am due for another oil change in about 1,000 miles, which for me means about three weeks, but I might give them a call about this and see if they feel some responsibility for the ATF overfill. Rudy |
#13
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"motsco_ _" <"motsco_ > wrote:
> I'm suggesting you procede with caution. It might be something simple. Well, I did visit my Honda dealer and a long time mechanic took me along with a test drive. He immediately, even before we started rolling, said that it was a sound he's heard many times before and it was coming from the torque converter going bad. When I suggested that I would still prefer to try flushing the trany from the old ATF and fill it with genuine Honda ATF to see what improvement that would bring, he talked me out of it as something pretty much useless as that would still not fix the torque converter. He also thought that the ATF overfill would not cause that noise. Well, he might be right, but he also might be a bit influenced by the fact that his shop would make more money with the replaced torque converter option. It's like going to a surgeon for a diagnosis and he would naturally lean toward cutting you open, while an internist would probably try some drugs first. In any case, he said that the job can wait till my next due oil change, so I have some time to think about it. To his credit though he did suggest a remanufactured torque converter that would cost me only around $200 as opposed to a new Honda part at $850. He also said that the remanufactured TQ would start out as an OEM part and would have to have certain letters stamped on it to fit my car model. It cannot be garanteed, however, that they would have it when I need it and unfortunately those letters are not known till the mechanic actually removes the existing TQ at which point I am pretty much committed and might have to choose leaving my car there till the proper remanufactured TQ becomes available or pay for a much more expensive new OEM TQ. That's not a choice I like to face, so I think I'll still try the ATF flush method first somehow. Rudy |
#14
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R. P. wrote:
> "jim beam" > wrote: > >> how many miles since last timing belt change? are you losing coolant? >> may be a water pump [or alternator] bearing. > > > I doubt it as I had the timing belt and water pump replaced 25,000 miles > ago. Actually, my last service was a small scheduled maint. service, > like the one performed at 22,500 miles > and it was performed at a Honda service shop. The previous more major > scheduled maintenance visit and later an oil change-only visit was at > that independent shop I mentioned. Those are the guys I suspect screwing > up my previously well running car because they installed a > remanufactured Delco distributor in place of the leaking original one > and they also probably used a non-Honda ATF. After that I immediately > noticed that faint whine from under the hood that seemed to vary with > the RPM but I did not pay much attention to it then. I was more > concerned by the low torque at idle speed, causing me several stalls > during starts while the engine was warm. ok, if it varies with rpm, not speed, and you have low torque, get that belt checked quick! it's probably skipped a tooth because it's too loose. and if you can, try to find out exactly what brand of water pump they used last time - if they changed it at all. there are some nasty cheapo aftermarket ones out there whose seals and bearings are grossly inferior. > > The AT related issues however bacame more noticeable in the last couple > weeks, even though I had that last (minor) maintenance service performed > at a Honda dealer since then. I was just checking the work sheet of that > service and it does show a check mark at the item, titled "Check all > fluid levels, condition of fluids and check for leaks, if needed add > transmission fluid, engine coolant,brake fluid, power steering fluid and > windshield washer fluid." the worksheet description is just word padding to justify the cost. > So now I wonder if the Honda mechanic just > blindly added more ATF and overfilling it, or he just left in the > original fluid from the independent shop. sure, if he checked it at all - which is more likely. > I am due for another oil > change in about 1,000 miles, which for me means about three weeks, but I > might give them a call about this and see if they feel some > responsibility for the ATF overfill. sometimes it's best to vote with your feet and research alternatives that know what they're doing. > > Rudy |
#15
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R. P. wrote:
> "motsco_ _" <"motsco_ > wrote: > >> I'm suggesting you procede with caution. It might be something simple. > > > Well, I did visit my Honda dealer and a long time mechanic took me along > with a test drive. He immediately, even before we started rolling, said > that it was a sound he's heard many times before and it was coming from > the torque converter going bad. afaik, the commonest problem with accord torque converters, and even then it's not that common from what i can see, is a lack of lockup clutch. i've never had that problem in a honda myself, but i'd be surprised if you could hear this problem on driveaway being as the lockup clutch only engages at higher speeds and during braking. > When I suggested that I would still > prefer to try flushing the trany from the old ATF and fill it with > genuine Honda ATF to see what improvement that would bring, he talked me > out of it as something pretty much useless as that would still not fix > the torque converter. He also thought that the ATF overfill would not > cause that noise. Well, he might be right, but he also might be a bit > influenced by the fact that his shop would make more money with the > replaced torque converter option. It's like going to a surgeon for a > diagnosis and he would naturally lean toward cutting you open, while an > internist would probably try some drugs first. In any case, he said > that the job can wait till my next due oil change, so I have some time > to think about it. To his credit though he did suggest a remanufactured > torque converter that would cost me only around $200 as opposed to a new > Honda part at $850. He also said that the remanufactured TQ would start > out as an OEM part and would have to have certain letters stamped on it > to fit my car model. It cannot be garanteed, however, that they would > have it when I need it and unfortunately those letters are not known > till the mechanic actually removes the existing TQ at which point I am > pretty much committed and might have to choose leaving my car there till > the proper remanufactured TQ becomes available or pay for a much more > expensive new OEM TQ. That's not a choice I like to face, so I think > I'll still try the ATF flush method first somehow. > > Rudy > |
#16
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"jim beam" > wrote:
> > ok, if it varies with rpm, not speed, and you have low torque, get > that belt checked quick! it's probably skipped a tooth because it's > too loose. and if you can, try to find out exactly what brand of > water pump they used last time - if they changed it at all. there are > some nasty cheapo aftermarket ones out there whose seals and bearings > are grossly inferior. The timing belt and water pump was replaced by a Honda dealer at 180,000 miles, so I don't think that was the problem. I went to that independent shop later, for the 195,000 ml scheduled maintenance, then for the following oil change at 198,750 miles. After that I returned to another Honda dealer's service at 202,500 miles. Now the mileage is around 204,000. > the worksheet description is just word padding to justify the cost. That's what I figured, too. > sometimes it's best to vote with your feet and research alternatives > that know what they're doing. I'm running out of options without really knowing a good shop. Sometimes a new one turns out worse than the old one. That's how it turned out for me with that independent shop. Rudy |
#17
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"jim beam" > wrote:
> afaik, the commonest problem with accord torque converters, and even > then it's not that common from what i can see, is a lack of lockup > clutch. i've never had that problem in a honda myself, but i'd be > surprised if you could hear this problem on driveaway being as the > lockup clutch only engages at higher speeds and during braking. Well, I did drain the ATF last evening and refilled it with 2.5 qt genuine Honda ATF-Z1. A test drive after it did not show any noticeable change in that noise I reported earlier. I'll replace the ATF again next weekend though I'm not having high hopes for an improvement. Perhaps that mechanic was right after all and my car needs its torque converter replaced. At least if I was sure that they could find the right remanufactured converter for it and it would really solve the problem and not just be part of a process of elimination game till the whole transmission is replaced. Rudy |
#18
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R. P. wrote:
> > I'm running out of options without really knowing a good shop. Sometimes > a new one turns out worse than the old one. That's how it turned out for > me with that independent shop. try www.cartalk.com and use their mechanic locator. worth a shot. |
#19
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"SoCalMike" > wrote:
> try www.cartalk.com and use their mechanic locator. worth a shot. Thanks for that tip, SoCal Mike! Looks like this time I picked the *right* Honda dealership. Rudy (formerly of Huntington Beach) |
#20
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R. P. wrote:
> "jim beam" > wrote: > >> afaik, the commonest problem with accord torque converters, and even >> then it's not that common from what i can see, is a lack of lockup >> clutch. i've never had that problem in a honda myself, but i'd be >> surprised if you could hear this problem on driveaway being as the >> lockup clutch only engages at higher speeds and during braking. > > > Well, I did drain the ATF last evening and refilled it with 2.5 qt > genuine Honda ATF-Z1. A test drive after it did not show any noticeable > change in that noise I reported earlier. I'll replace the ATF again > next weekend though I'm not having high hopes for an improvement. > Perhaps that mechanic was right after all and my car needs its torque > converter replaced. At least if I was sure that they could find the > right remanufactured converter for it and it would really solve the > problem and not just be part of a process of elimination game till the > whole transmission is replaced. > > Rudy > ok. keep us posted with the result - add the data to the pool. |
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