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GTR Demo performance???



 
 
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  #11  
Old February 23rd 05, 07:10 PM
Mitch_A
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Ron wrote:

> I guess I will just have to wait until the USA release of the final
> product. I have some other gripes, but they may be a matter of tuning
> or differences in demo vs. the final release. I won't dwell on it,
> but just briefly, in my opinion the force feedback is not subtle
> enough and just does not feel right to me, and the demo car (again
> this is probably setup) has a tendency for the rear to oscillate at
> high speeds if the wheel is not held perfectly steady.
>
> I look forward to GTR's USA release in March as it looks like a very
> ambitious project. But I am trying not to get my hopes too high.
> Having seen many generations of entertainment software developed, with
> very few exceptions, it is usually more about taking advantage of
> newer glitzier graphics and sound capabilities of new generation
> hardware than it is about building on past code algorithms to develop
> more realistic feel and performance. I would gladly give up some of
> the former to get more of the later.
>
> Ron
>
>
> On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 16:44:47 GMT, Mitch_A >
> wrote:
>
>>Ron wrote:
>>
>>> I guess the point is, I don't what to play arcade mode. I wan't a
>>> realistic sim with the AI cars having an equal chance of damage or
>>> sliding and spinning as I do.
>>>
>>> I just went back and loaded 'F1 Challenge' and 'GPL' and ran a few
>>> laps. Based on the 'GTR' Demo, 'GTR' looks and sounds good, but I
>>> still don't know if it is better.
>>>
>>> Ron
>>>
>>> On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 04:04:40 -0800, "Brrrrr" > wrote:
>>>
>>>>Ron Milton wrote:
>>>>> I installed the new GTR demo today, and I must say I am very
>>>>> impressed with the physics of the cars you can drive.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now the problem... I have noticed that the AI cars seem damn
>>>>near
>>>>> invincible. I mean, if you tap one you are likely to spin
>>>>out, but
>>>>> you can practicly ram them and they just zoom on down the
>>>>track!
>>>>>
>>>>> Is this just the demo, and the actual game will behave
>>>>correctly, or
>>>>> have I missed something? I have tried this in 'simulation'
>>>>and
>>>>> 'semi-pro' modes and it does it in both.
>>>>
>>>>Try Arcade mode. The way to get passed the AI cars is to keep
>>>>your speed up approaching the turns then brake hard. Unless you
>>>>go off track, it's hard to spin in Arcade mode. I have done
>>>>2:06.xxx with the GT but I've heard of 2:02.
>>>>
>>>>Hit the other cars if you have to while passing.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Brrr
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I am used to driving 'F1 Challenge' which behaves much
>>>>better.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ron
>>>>
>>>>

>>
>>Remember it is only a demo. Im not saying the full version will improve
>>the areas you describe but it is just a demo.



A couple key tweaks for me that helped tremendously were, first and foremost
the tire sound/scrubbing/squeal. I really crank em up. In the
neighborhood of 130%. Call it a weak tire model or at least not up to
standard but the sound increase makes up for the lack of "feel" in spades
imo.

I didnt do anything different from NR2003 on my Momo force/ecci. IIRC I
used a guy named sphankys Momo setup guide and the FF is just about pefect
out the box on my rig.

I do get the oscilations you describe though but not to the point where its
a problem for me. I can damp out some but I like the positive feel without
damping more.

Im suprised to hear someone say F1C was better in any respect. Im no F1C
expert by any means but it always seemed to missing something. I cant
quite put my finger on it but tire model always seemed very weak to me.
People still complain of GTR in the same way but to me its improved
dramatically.

Mitch
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  #12  
Old February 23rd 05, 08:08 PM
Mitch_A
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Alan Le wrote:

>> I still think if you hit a cars rear quarter panel solidly in a high
>> speed turn on edge of grip the car should spin out... period. I
>> finally got an AI car to go off road by hitting it with about a 50 mph
>> differential. It destroyed my front end, and the AI car just pulled
>> back on the road and sped off without a scratch. Seems a lot like an
>> Arcade game as far as the AI is concerned.

>
> Hmmm.... haven't noticed that. In fact, I'm fairly certain I've spun a
> few
> myself by pushing into their rear quarter. I've even seen (and both
> benefitted and wrecked from) the AI screwing up Eau Rouge on exit and
> spinning. I'll have to give it a try and see.
>
> Alan


I just happened to catch the Busch race on Speed just now and I think part
of the greatness of the GTR/AI combo is the ability to "root" (as DW says)
your opponent out of his line to take the spot. In any online racing game
Ive ever run root'ing (as in bumping outta way) is really just "wrecking"
as thats usually the end result.

That Stewart save was truly spectacular. The announcers were almost
speechless for a minute or so after, then its like it set in all of a
sudden. About the time the spotter said "thats somethin Earnhardt would
do".

On another note for Ron. I keep thinking about what you said "hitting the
AI with a 30mph differential does nothing and is very arcadish". It seems
to me just having the AI set so low as to introduce this speed differential
is more arcadish than having the AI set to a respectable level that
simulates real life to a finer degree than 30mph. Not that accidents dont
happen. And boy, when set to Psychotic they really do happen, maybe too
often hehe.

Mitch
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  #13  
Old February 23rd 05, 09:55 PM
Ron
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I have played with the FF and and steering sensitivity adjustments and
it is much better but the steering at speed it loose near center, too
loose for my liking.

The tire model with F1C is not all that great, but with my MOMO I can
feel the steering force lighten as the rear tires go away and I start
to slide. Also the slight shudder in the steering when you jam on the
brakes at high speed gives a realistic feel. Steering is also very
linear in F1C. There is a lot to like as what is done is done well.

I do however like the steering chop I feel in GTR as I go into a turn
and the car is 'pushing' slightly . Nicely done.

I have played with the tire sounds and it does seem to improve
situational awareness.

I can't seem to get used to the visual perspective in GTR. I use
either over the hood or the nose view, and it seems they have
stretched the view perspective to enhance speed illusion, not a
natural 1:1 perspective. This skews depth perception. Is there an
adjustment for this I am missing?

Ron



On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 18:10:02 GMT, Mitch_A >
wrote:


>
>A couple key tweaks for me that helped tremendously were, first and foremost
>the tire sound/scrubbing/squeal. I really crank em up. In the
>neighborhood of 130%. Call it a weak tire model or at least not up to
>standard but the sound increase makes up for the lack of "feel" in spades
>imo.
>
>I didnt do anything different from NR2003 on my Momo force/ecci. IIRC I
>used a guy named sphankys Momo setup guide and the FF is just about pefect
>out the box on my rig.
>
>I do get the oscilations you describe though but not to the point where its
>a problem for me. I can damp out some but I like the positive feel without
>damping more.
>
>Im suprised to hear someone say F1C was better in any respect. Im no F1C
>expert by any means but it always seemed to missing something. I cant
>quite put my finger on it but tire model always seemed very weak to me.
>People still complain of GTR in the same way but to me its improved
>dramatically.
>
>Mitch


  #14  
Old February 23rd 05, 10:42 PM
Uwe Schürkamp
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On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 20:55:24 GMT, Ron wrote:
>
> natural 1:1 perspective. This skews depth perception. Is there an
> adjustment for this I am missing?



I think you need to drive GTR from the in-cockpit perspective to fully
appreciate the "situational awareness", i.e. the "being there" feeling
that the sim provides. I tried the bumper cam view, but it just did
not feel "right" in a way.

Cheers, uwe


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  #15  
Old February 23rd 05, 10:49 PM
Mitch_A
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Ron wrote:

>
> I can't seem to get used to the visual perspective in GTR. I use
> either over the hood or the nose view, and it seems they have
> stretched the view perspective to enhance speed illusion, not a
> natural 1:1 perspective. This skews depth perception. Is there an
> adjustment for this I am missing?
>
> Ron


Blasphemy!!!!!

And to dare to compare anything in GTR as arcade when you dont race from the
pit?

Being the cockpit prude I am I cant give ya any help beyond the pit, sorry.

Speaking of the cockpit. I really like the adjustability of the seating
position with the mouse. Very nice detail and much needed in all sims.


Mitch
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  #16  
Old February 23rd 05, 11:39 PM
Ron
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Wow! I think I need to flail myself and beg forgiveness.

I have been so stuck on open cockpit formula one cars that I was
feeling claustrophobic in a closed cockpit.

That said, I have now driven from the 'proper' cockpit and that solved
all of my handling problems. I can go like mad now!

Maybe the AI problems will be fixed in the release version.

Ron

On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 21:49:49 GMT, Mitch_A >
wrote:

>Ron wrote:
>
>>
>> I can't seem to get used to the visual perspective in GTR. I use
>> either over the hood or the nose view, and it seems they have
>> stretched the view perspective to enhance speed illusion, not a
>> natural 1:1 perspective. This skews depth perception. Is there an
>> adjustment for this I am missing?
>>
>> Ron

>
>Blasphemy!!!!!
>
>And to dare to compare anything in GTR as arcade when you dont race from the
>pit?
>
>Being the cockpit prude I am I cant give ya any help beyond the pit, sorry.
>
>Speaking of the cockpit. I really like the adjustability of the seating
>position with the mouse. Very nice detail and much needed in all sims.
>
>
>Mitch


  #17  
Old February 24th 05, 03:57 AM
Dave Henrie
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Ron > wrote in
:

> I guess I will just have to wait until the USA release of the final
> product. I have some other gripes, but they may be a matter of tuning
> or differences in demo vs. the final release. I won't dwell on it,
> but just briefly, in my opinion the force feedback is not subtle
> enough and just does not feel right to me, and the demo car (again
> this is probably setup) has a tendency for the rear to oscillate at
> high speeds if the wheel is not held perfectly steady.


The force feedback with ISI sims can be bewitching. Setup a softly
sprung car, use the auto-setup thingy if you want and move the sliders
towards a softer setup with maybe some understeer. Now go out on the track
and the FF will feel very very weak.
Now go back to the sliders and create a stiff setup. Don't change
anything else, just stiffen the setup...go back out...And see if you are
strong enough to turn the suddenly much stiffer wheel.


>
> I look forward to GTR's USA release in March as it looks like a very
> ambitious project. But I am trying not to get my hopes too high.
> Having seen many generations of entertainment software developed, with
> very few exceptions, it is usually more about taking advantage of
> newer glitzier graphics and sound capabilities of new generation
> hardware than it is about building on past code algorithms to develop
> more realistic feel and performance. I would gladly give up some of
> the former to get more of the later.
>
> Ron


>


GTR uses Motor1.5.(Isi's name for it's software package) rFactor uses a
truncated version of Motor 2.0. Given the acclaim everyone seems to have
for rFactor's online demo, imagine what GTR2 will be next year with the
Motor 2+ engine.

dave henrie

Showing my Mopar stripes...I'll get GTR if for no other reason than it may
be the last sim that covers the Dodge/Chrysler GTS-R Viper. A grand ol car
that ruled it's day. A time when cars were cars and not GTP prototypes
with a skin job.


  #18  
Old February 24th 05, 03:59 AM
Dave Henrie
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Ron > wrote in
:

>
> I can't seem to get used to the visual perspective in GTR. I use
> either over the hood or the nose view, and it seems they have
> stretched the view perspective to enhance speed illusion, not a
> natural 1:1 perspective. This skews depth perception. Is there an
> adjustment for this I am missing?
>
> Ron
>


(sorry I can't resist stirring up trouble, nothing personal Ron.)

SURE there is something you are missing!!! The COCKPIT!!

dave(being a bad bad boy)henrie
  #19  
Old February 24th 05, 04:30 AM
Steve Simpson
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>I guess I will just have to wait until the USA release of the final
> product. I have some other gripes, but they may be a matter of tuning
> or differences in demo vs. the final release. I won't dwell on it,
> but just briefly, in my opinion the force feedback is not subtle
> enough and just does not feel right to me, and the demo car (again
> this is probably setup) has a tendency for the rear to oscillate at
> high speeds if the wheel is not held perfectly steady.


I think both of these things you refer to are connected with the FF which I
would agree isn't perfect. I usually turn the strength down to about 60-70%
as I think it's too 'notchy' in the corners at the default. Twitchiness at
high speed is often cured by reducing the steering lock a couple of degrees
in the car setup. Give it time and play around with it and I reckon you'll
come to love it as many of us have.


  #20  
Old February 25th 05, 01:32 AM
Ron
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Thanks for the help Mitch,

GTR has really come around for me since I am now driving in the 'pit'!
After a couple of tweaks to the steering my opinion and competence at
driving has had a huge turn around.

There are only a few minor annoyances left, and part of that is a
personal preference.

Now I just have to wait for the USA release of the sim.

Ron...

On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 21:49:49 GMT, Mitch_A >
wrote:

>Blasphemy!!!!!
>
>And to dare to compare anything in GTR as arcade when you dont race from the
>pit?
>
>Being the cockpit prude I am I cant give ya any help beyond the pit, sorry.
>
>Speaking of the cockpit. I really like the adjustability of the seating
>position with the mouse. Very nice detail and much needed in all sims.
>
>
>Mitch


 




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