07 escape noise

wrote:
> Car seems to drive ok. Has a steering wheel vibration and bounce back
> and forth, but rotating tires eliminated it. However, when first
> trying to diagnose the problem I found this. Is this normal
> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=teBO-_...ature=youtu.be

Reach in there with some pliers and grab the axle shafts. See if they
have any play in the CV joints. As it is doing it on both sides I would
suspect it as gear backlash in the differential. Some is entirely
normal, without it the gearing would destroy itself from the heat the
friction generates.
Easy way to track it would be to use a mechanics stethoscope and listen
to the various parts as you move the tires. It will get louder as you
get closer.

--
Steve W.

On Monday, March 21, 2016 at 3:06:13 PM UTC-5, Steve W. wrote:
> wrote:
> > Car seems to drive ok. Has a steering wheel vibration and bounce back
> > and forth, but rotating tires eliminated it. However, when first
> > trying to diagnose the problem I found this. Is this normal
> > https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=teBO-_...ature=youtu.be
>
> Reach in there with some pliers and grab the axle shafts. See if they
> have any play in the CV joints. As it is doing it on both sides I would
> suspect it as gear backlash in the differential. Some is entirely
> normal, without it the gearing would destroy itself from the heat the
> friction generates.
> Easy way to track it would be to use a mechanics stethoscope and listen
> to the various parts as you move the tires. It will get louder as you
> get closer.
>
> --
> Steve W.

Electronic Stethoscopes for listening to engine noises. I wonder if they are any good for finding home water systems/water leaks?

JR wrote:
> On Monday, March 21, 2016 at 3:06:13 PM UTC-5, Steve W. wrote:
>> wrote:
>>> Car seems to drive ok. Has a steering wheel vibration and bounce
>>> back and forth, but rotating tires eliminated it. However, when
>>> first trying to diagnose the problem I found this. Is this normal
>>> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=teBO-_...ature=youtu.be
>> Reach in there with some pliers and grab the axle shafts. See if
>> they have any play in the CV joints. As it is doing it on both
>> sides I would suspect it as gear backlash in the differential. Some
>> is entirely normal, without it the gearing would destroy itself
>> from the heat the friction generates. Easy way to track it would be
>> to use a mechanics stethoscope and listen to the various parts as
>> you move the tires. It will get louder as you get closer.
>>
>> -- Steve W.
>
> Electronic Stethoscopes for listening to engine noises. I wonder if
> they are any good for finding home water systems/water leaks?

The common mechanical ones won't. The ones that are basically hearing
aid amplifiers might help IF the leak is under pressure and actually
acting like a fountain, but if that is the case they should be readily
apparent.

--
Steve W.

On Monday, March 21, 2016 at 3:06:13 PM UTC-5, Steve W. wrote:
> wrote:
> > Car seems to drive ok. Has a steering wheel vibration and bounce back
> > and forth, but rotating tires eliminated it. However, when first
> > trying to diagnose the problem I found this. Is this normal
> > https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=teBO-_...ature=youtu.be
>
> Reach in there with some pliers and grab the axle shafts. See if they
> have any play in the CV joints. As it is doing it on both sides I would
> suspect it as gear backlash in the differential. Some is entirely
> normal, without it the gearing would destroy itself from the heat the
> friction generates.
> Easy way to track it would be to use a mechanics stethoscope and listen
> to the various parts as you move the tires. It will get louder as you
> get closer.
>
> --
> Steve W.

The best I can tell the clicking when moving the wheels back and forth is coming from the differential. Is the "clicking" sound normal?

On Monday, March 21, 2016 at 3:06:13 PM UTC-5, Steve W. wrote:
> wrote:
> > Car seems to drive ok. Has a steering wheel vibration and bounce back
> > and forth, but rotating tires eliminated it. However, when first
> > trying to diagnose the problem I found this. Is this normal
> > https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=teBO-_...ature=youtu.be
>
> Reach in there with some pliers and grab the axle shafts. See if they
> have any play in the CV joints. As it is doing it on both sides I would
> suspect it as gear backlash in the differential. Some is entirely
> normal, without it the gearing would destroy itself from the heat the
> friction generates.
> Easy way to track it would be to use a mechanics stethoscope and listen
> to the various parts as you move the tires. It will get louder as you
> get closer.
>
> --
> Steve W.

Can anyone explain what the entire axle looks like and how many/where the cv joints are? I have more experience with rear wheel drives and have never taken the axle on a front wheel drive apart.

wrote:
> On Monday, March 21, 2016 at 3:06:13 PM UTC-5, Steve W. wrote:
>> wrote:
>>> Car seems to drive ok. Has a steering wheel vibration and bounce
>>> back and forth, but rotating tires eliminated it. However, when
>>> first trying to diagnose the problem I found this. Is this normal
>>> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=teBO-_...ature=youtu.be
>> Reach in there with some pliers and grab the axle shafts. See if
>> they have any play in the CV joints. As it is doing it on both
>> sides I would suspect it as gear backlash in the differential. Some
>> is entirely normal, without it the gearing would destroy itself
>> from the heat the friction generates. Easy way to track it would be
>> to use a mechanics stethoscope and listen to the various parts as
>> you move the tires. It will get louder as you get closer.
>>
>> -- Steve W.
>
> Can anyone explain what the entire axle looks like and how many/where
> the cv joints are? I have more experience with rear wheel drives and
> have never taken the axle on a front wheel drive apart.

You have 2 CV joints and 2 Tripod (or tri-pot) joints.

In the Noise2 video the joint to your right (inboard) is a tripod type
universal joint. The one on the left (outboard) is a Rzeppa type
constant velocity joint.

The tripod joint has three bearings on a yoke that ride in channels in
the outer housing. As the suspension travels over bumps this style joint
can plunge in/out to allow the half-shaft (solid steel item connecting
the two joints) to expand/retract as needed.
https://d2t1xqejof9utc.cloudfront.ne...a19c/large.gif

The outer Rzeppa CV joint on the other hand is made up of an inner and
outer bearing race joined by bearing balls that ride in grooves. This
style joint allows for rotation and angle changes BUT not plunging axial
motion.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...t_animated.gif

Both joints are covered by boots (the rubber bellows you see) that keep
dirt/moisture out of the joints and hold in the molybdenum disulfide CV
joint grease. You want to check these over while doing oil changes. Any
cracks/splits or damage can allow crud into the joint, causing wear and
damage.


--
Steve W.

On Tuesday, March 22, 2016 at 9:56:01 AM UTC-5, Steve W. wrote:
> wrote:
> > On Monday, March 21, 2016 at 3:06:13 PM UTC-5, Steve W. wrote:
> >> wrote:
> >>> Car seems to drive ok. Has a steering wheel vibration and bounce
> >>> back and forth, but rotating tires eliminated it. However, when
> >>> first trying to diagnose the problem I found this. Is this normal
> >>> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=teBO-_...ature=youtu.be
> >> Reach in there with some pliers and grab the axle shafts. See if
> >> they have any play in the CV joints. As it is doing it on both
> >> sides I would suspect it as gear backlash in the differential. Some
> >> is entirely normal, without it the gearing would destroy itself
> >> from the heat the friction generates. Easy way to track it would be
> >> to use a mechanics stethoscope and listen to the various parts as
> >> you move the tires. It will get louder as you get closer.
> >>
> >> -- Steve W.
> >
> > Can anyone explain what the entire axle looks like and how many/where
> > the cv joints are? I have more experience with rear wheel drives and
> > have never taken the axle on a front wheel drive apart.
>
> You have 2 CV joints and 2 Tripod (or tri-pot) joints.
>
> In the Noise2 video the joint to your right (inboard) is a tripod type
> universal joint. The one on the left (outboard) is a Rzeppa type
> constant velocity joint.
>
> The tripod joint has three bearings on a yoke that ride in channels in
> the outer housing. As the suspension travels over bumps this style joint
> can plunge in/out to allow the half-shaft (solid steel item connecting
> the two joints) to expand/retract as needed.
> https://d2t1xqejof9utc.cloudfront.ne...a19c/large.gif
>
> The outer Rzeppa CV joint on the other hand is made up of an inner and
> outer bearing race joined by bearing balls that ride in grooves. This
> style joint allows for rotation and angle changes BUT not plunging axial
> motion.
> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...t_animated.gif
>
> Both joints are covered by boots (the rubber bellows you see) that keep
> dirt/moisture out of the joints and hold in the molybdenum disulfide CV
> joint grease. You want to check these over while doing oil changes. Any
> cracks/splits or damage can allow crud into the joint, causing wear and
> damage.
>
>
> -- Thanks that helps. SO there are basically 4 of these joints on the car, two on each side? Typically, if one joint goes bad, what exact part is replaced? Can just the joint itaelf be replaced?
> Steve W.

wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 22, 2016 at 9:56:01 AM UTC-5, Steve W. wrote:
>> wrote:
>>> On Monday, March 21, 2016 at 3:06:13 PM UTC-5, Steve W. wrote:
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Car seems to drive ok. Has a steering wheel vibration and
>>>>> bounce back and forth, but rotating tires eliminated it.
>>>>> However, when first trying to diagnose the problem I found
>>>>> this. Is this normal
>>>>> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=teBO-_...ature=youtu.be
>>>> Reach in there with some pliers and grab the axle shafts. See
>>>> if they have any play in the CV joints. As it is doing it on
>>>> both sides I would suspect it as gear backlash in the
>>>> differential. Some is entirely normal, without it the gearing
>>>> would destroy itself from the heat the friction generates. Easy
>>>> way to track it would be to use a mechanics stethoscope and
>>>> listen to the various parts as you move the tires. It will get
>>>> louder as you get closer.
>>>>
>>>> -- Steve W.
>>> Can anyone explain what the entire axle looks like and how
>>> many/where the cv joints are? I have more experience with rear
>>> wheel drives and have never taken the axle on a front wheel drive
>>> apart.
>> You have 2 CV joints and 2 Tripod (or tri-pot) joints.
>>
>> In the Noise2 video the joint to your right (inboard) is a tripod
>> type universal joint. The one on the left (outboard) is a Rzeppa
>> type constant velocity joint.
>>
>> The tripod joint has three bearings on a yoke that ride in channels
>> in the outer housing. As the suspension travels over bumps this
>> style joint can plunge in/out to allow the half-shaft (solid steel
>> item connecting the two joints) to expand/retract as needed.
>> https://d2t1xqejof9utc.cloudfront.ne...a19c/large.gif
>>
>>
>> The outer Rzeppa CV joint on the other hand is made up of an inner
>> and outer bearing race joined by bearing balls that ride in
>> grooves. This style joint allows for rotation and angle changes BUT
>> not plunging axial motion.
>> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...t_animated.gif
>>
>>
>> Both joints are covered by boots (the rubber bellows you see) that
>> keep dirt/moisture out of the joints and hold in the molybdenum
>> disulfide CV joint grease. You want to check these over while doing
>> oil changes. Any cracks/splits or damage can allow crud into the
>> joint, causing wear and damage.
>>
>>
>> -- Thanks that helps. SO there are basically 4 of these joints on
>> the car, two on each side? Typically, if one joint goes bad, what
>> exact part is replaced? Can just the joint itaelf be replaced?
>> Steve W.

Yes, you have 2 Tripod and 2 Rzeppa joints.

Failure wise you have the boots as the most common failure item. They
make split boots that you can install without removing the axle. I
consider them a band-aid repair. They work but I'd rather replace the joint.

Next on the failure list is the outer Rzeppa joint. The most common way
to tell these have failed is when you hear LOUD clicking snaps from the
front end on hard low speed turns. Like turning into a driveway or
parking spot.

Last is the inner tripod joint. I don't think I've ever seen one that
the joint itself failed, usually it's that the boot failed and
contaminated the grease.

As to replacement. Long ago when they first started using them or you
had a unique unit you would replace just the failed joint and boot.

These days you just replace the entire half shaft assembly. It's less
work overall, faster and usually costs about the same.

To replace either joint you have to do all the same work you would to
replace the unit. Plus you need to remove the old boot, clean off all
the old grease, then remove the joint. Next install the new boot,
install the new joint, fill everything with grease and seal up the boot.

For instance on the 07 Escape -

The replacement boot and grease for one joint runs $43.00
Replacement CV joint/boot kit is $78.00

Complete axle shafts run around $90.00 each for the "common" units. Can
be more depending on the engine and options.


--
Steve W.

On Tuesday, March 22, 2016 at 2:06:15 PM UTC-5, Steve W. wrote:
> wrote:
> > On Tuesday, March 22, 2016 at 9:56:01 AM UTC-5, Steve W. wrote:
> >> wrote:
> >>> On Monday, March 21, 2016 at 3:06:13 PM UTC-5, Steve W. wrote:
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>> Car seems to drive ok. Has a steering wheel vibration and
> >>>>> bounce back and forth, but rotating tires eliminated it.
> >>>>> However, when first trying to diagnose the problem I found
> >>>>> this. Is this normal
> >>>>> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=teBO-_...ature=youtu.be
> >>>> Reach in there with some pliers and grab the axle shafts. See
> >>>> if they have any play in the CV joints. As it is doing it on
> >>>> both sides I would suspect it as gear backlash in the
> >>>> differential. Some is entirely normal, without it the gearing
> >>>> would destroy itself from the heat the friction generates. Easy
> >>>> way to track it would be to use a mechanics stethoscope and
> >>>> listen to the various parts as you move the tires. It will get
> >>>> louder as you get closer.
> >>>>
> >>>> -- Steve W.
> >>> Can anyone explain what the entire axle looks like and how
> >>> many/where the cv joints are? I have more experience with rear
> >>> wheel drives and have never taken the axle on a front wheel drive
> >>> apart.
> >> You have 2 CV joints and 2 Tripod (or tri-pot) joints.
> >>
> >> In the Noise2 video the joint to your right (inboard) is a tripod
> >> type universal joint. The one on the left (outboard) is a Rzeppa
> >> type constant velocity joint.
> >>
> >> The tripod joint has three bearings on a yoke that ride in channels
> >> in the outer housing. As the suspension travels over bumps this
> >> style joint can plunge in/out to allow the half-shaft (solid steel
> >> item connecting the two joints) to expand/retract as needed.
> >> https://d2t1xqejof9utc.cloudfront.ne...a19c/large.gif
> >>
> >>
> >> The outer Rzeppa CV joint on the other hand is made up of an inner
> >> and outer bearing race joined by bearing balls that ride in
> >> grooves. This style joint allows for rotation and angle changes BUT
> >> not plunging axial motion.
> >> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...t_animated.gif
> >>
> >>
> >> Both joints are covered by boots (the rubber bellows you see) that
> >> keep dirt/moisture out of the joints and hold in the molybdenum
> >> disulfide CV joint grease. You want to check these over while doing
> >> oil changes. Any cracks/splits or damage can allow crud into the
> >> joint, causing wear and damage.
> >>
> >>
> >> -- Thanks that helps. SO there are basically 4 of these joints on
> >> the car, two on each side? Typically, if one joint goes bad, what
> >> exact part is replaced? Can just the joint itaelf be replaced?
> >> Steve W.
>
> Yes, you have 2 Tripod and 2 Rzeppa joints.
>
> Failure wise you have the boots as the most common failure item. They
> make split boots that you can install without removing the axle. I
> consider them a band-aid repair. They work but I'd rather replace the joint.
>
> Next on the failure list is the outer Rzeppa joint. The most common way
> to tell these have failed is when you hear LOUD clicking snaps from the
> front end on hard low speed turns. Like turning into a driveway or
> parking spot.
>
> Last is the inner tripod joint. I don't think I've ever seen one that
> the joint itself failed, usually it's that the boot failed and
> contaminated the grease.
>
> As to replacement. Long ago when they first started using them or you
> had a unique unit you would replace just the failed joint and boot.
>
> These days you just replace the entire half shaft assembly. It's less
> work overall, faster and usually costs about the same.
>
> To replace either joint you have to do all the same work you would to
> replace the unit. Plus you need to remove the old boot, clean off all
> the old grease, then remove the joint. Next install the new boot,
> install the new joint, fill everything with grease and seal up the boot.
>
> For instance on the 07 Escape -
>
> The replacement boot and grease for one joint runs $43.00
> Replacement CV joint/boot kit is $78.00
>
> Complete axle shafts run around $90.00 each for the "common" units. Can
> be more depending on the engine and options.
>
>
> --
> Steve W.

Is it hard to replace the entire axle?

On Tuesday, March 22, 2016 at 11:33:40 AM UTC-5, wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 22, 2016 at 9:56:01 AM UTC-5, Steve W. wrote:
> > wrote:
> > > On Monday, March 21, 2016 at 3:06:13 PM UTC-5, Steve W. wrote:
> > >> wrote:
> > >>> Car seems to drive ok. Has a steering wheel vibration and bounce
> > >>> back and forth, but rotating tires eliminated it. However, when
> > >>> first trying to diagnose the problem I found this. Is this normal
> > >>> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=teBO-_...ature=youtu.be
> > >> Reach in there with some pliers and grab the axle shafts. See if
> > >> they have any play in the CV joints. As it is doing it on both
> > >> sides I would suspect it as gear backlash in the differential. Some
> > >> is entirely normal, without it the gearing would destroy itself
> > >> from the heat the friction generates. Easy way to track it would be
> > >> to use a mechanics stethoscope and listen to the various parts as
> > >> you move the tires. It will get louder as you get closer.
> > >>
> > >> -- Steve W.
> > >
> > > Can anyone explain what the entire axle looks like and how many/where
> > > the cv joints are? I have more experience with rear wheel drives and
> > > have never taken the axle on a front wheel drive apart.
> >
> > You have 2 CV joints and 2 Tripod (or tri-pot) joints.
> >
> > In the Noise2 video the joint to your right (inboard) is a tripod type
> > universal joint. The one on the left (outboard) is a Rzeppa type
> > constant velocity joint.
> >
> > The tripod joint has three bearings on a yoke that ride in channels in
> > the outer housing. As the suspension travels over bumps this style joint
> > can plunge in/out to allow the half-shaft (solid steel item connecting
> > the two joints) to expand/retract as needed.
> > https://d2t1xqejof9utc.cloudfront.ne...a19c/large.gif
> >
> > The outer Rzeppa CV joint on the other hand is made up of an inner and
> > outer bearing race joined by bearing balls that ride in grooves. This
> > style joint allows for rotation and angle changes BUT not plunging axial
> > motion.
> > https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...t_animated.gif
> >
> > Both joints are covered by boots (the rubber bellows you see) that keep
> > dirt/moisture out of the joints and hold in the molybdenum disulfide CV
> > joint grease. You want to check these over while doing oil changes. Any
> > cracks/splits or damage can allow crud into the joint, causing wear and
> > damage.
> >
> >
> > -- Thanks that helps. SO there are basically 4 of these joints on the car, two on each side? Typically, if one joint goes bad, what exact part is replaced? Can just the joint itaelf be replaced?
> > Steve W.