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'00 Voyager Compressor questions
The clutch on my '00 Voyager's compressor grenaded itself this winter.
I'm presuming the compressor siezed and the compressor engaging with the defroster caused the bearings to fail. I guess I was lucky it didn't shoot the bearings out through the radiator, and I was close enough to home that I made it home on battery with no belt turning the alternator. Now that the weather is warming up, I'm setting about the business of getting the AC system back up to snuff so that my wife and kids are happy. My research thus far tells me a clutch is nearly as expensive as a clutch and a compressor together. Here are my questions: - recommendations on buying compressor/clutch off ebay? - reman compressor/clutch combos are about half the cost of a new one (140 vs. 280). What's the life expectency of a good reman? - I know I'll want to replace the drier along with the compressor. What are the chances I'll need an expansion valve (I think Chrysler calls this an H block)? How do I diagnose the if the H block is crudded up? Throw some 134 in and see if it chills? Note: No matter what I do, I do plan to have the system evac'd, drawn down, and filled back up with the proper amount of oil and 134 when I'm done. Should I have them flush the system out when we do that? |
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#2
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'00 Voyager Compressor questions
-- "bruce" > wrote in message ps.com... > The clutch on my '00 Voyager's compressor grenaded itself this winter. > I'm presuming the compressor siezed and the compressor engaging with > the defroster caused the bearings to fail. I guess I was lucky it > didn't shoot the bearings out through the radiator, and I was close > enough to home that I made it home on battery with no belt turning the > alternator. > > Now that the weather is warming up, I'm setting about the business of > getting the AC system back up to snuff so that my wife and kids are > happy. My research thus far tells me a clutch is nearly as expensive > as a clutch and a compressor together. Here are my questions: > > - recommendations on buying compressor/clutch off ebay? > - reman compressor/clutch combos are about half the cost of a new one > (140 vs. 280). What's the life expectency of a good reman? > - I know I'll want to replace the drier along with the compressor. > What are the chances I'll need an expansion valve (I think Chrysler > calls this an H block)? How do I diagnose the if the H block is > crudded up? Throw some 134 in and see if it chills? > > Note: No matter what I do, I do plan to have the system evac'd, drawn > down, and filled back up with the proper amount of oil and 134 when I'm > done. Should I have them flush the system out when we do that? > What causes the clutch and coil to go bad is the air gap required to keep the pulley from touching the clutch is gone and when the compressor is not in use the friction from the pulley heats up the clutch and takes all the grease out of the bearing, this in turn causes the failure. If the housing is worn and you install a new clutch assembly it will fail also. I would go with a Mopar reman complete assembly. Glenn Beasley Chrysler Tech |
#3
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'00 Voyager Compressor questions
dunno, but for about 40 bucks you might get your questions / problems
answered (diagnosed) by a shop professional that's in the ac business, and the 40 bucks is refundable if you let them do the work. could save you a pile of money. mho vƒe |
#4
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'00 Voyager Compressor questions
On 14 Apr 2006 19:41:01 -0700, "bruce" > wrote:
>The clutch on my '00 Voyager's compressor grenaded itself this winter. >I'm presuming the compressor siezed and the compressor engaging with >the defroster caused the bearings to fail. I guess I was lucky it >didn't shoot the bearings out through the radiator, and I was close >enough to home that I made it home on battery with no belt turning the >alternator. > You need to know what happened first. If in fact the compressor did seize then you need to flush the system and I would replace the orifice along with the dryer. If the compressor did not seize there isn't any real reason to have to flush. The compressor warranty may require that you replace the orifice as well as the dryer. I haven't had very good luck with rebuilt compressors . Especially stay away from the "Four Siezens" compressors sold at the discount auto parts places. The labor to flush the system, dryer, orifice and vacuum / recharge are at least half the cost of repair. If you buy a cheesy rebuilt compressor that fails in short order all that money is lost. If the compressor did seize I would take it to an A/C shop for repair and use what ever compressor they recommend. This way if it fails again you have a warranty on the entire repair. If you replace the compressor and have them do all the rest your savings can quickly go up in smoke since no shop is going to warranty parts you put on. If the compressor didn't seize then go have the 134a recovered, replace the compressor dryer and orifice and have the shop vacuum it and recharge. If you think you are going to do more a/c work in the future it may be worth it to you to go ahead and buy a vacuum pump (about $250) and a decent set of gauges (about $100). Years ago I found that I could buy all the tools and fix it myself for the same price a shop wanted to do the job. Those tools have come in handy at least half a dozen times since then and I consider them to be a wise investment. Steve B. |
#5
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'00 Voyager Compressor questions
Unless your a certified A/C tech!! Your going to need to take it in! Any
type of A/C service almost always requires a certified A/C tech to work on the A/C system. "bruce" > wrote in message ps.com... > The clutch on my '00 Voyager's compressor grenaded itself this winter. > I'm presuming the compressor siezed and the compressor engaging with > the defroster caused the bearings to fail. I guess I was lucky it > didn't shoot the bearings out through the radiator, and I was close > enough to home that I made it home on battery with no belt turning the > alternator. > > Now that the weather is warming up, I'm setting about the business of > getting the AC system back up to snuff so that my wife and kids are > happy. My research thus far tells me a clutch is nearly as expensive > as a clutch and a compressor together. Here are my questions: > > - recommendations on buying compressor/clutch off ebay? > - reman compressor/clutch combos are about half the cost of a new one > (140 vs. 280). What's the life expectency of a good reman? > - I know I'll want to replace the drier along with the compressor. > What are the chances I'll need an expansion valve (I think Chrysler > calls this an H block)? How do I diagnose the if the H block is > crudded up? Throw some 134 in and see if it chills? > > Note: No matter what I do, I do plan to have the system evac'd, drawn > down, and filled back up with the proper amount of oil and 134 when I'm > done. Should I have them flush the system out when we do that? > |
#6
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'00 Voyager Compressor questions
Thanks for the thoughtful advice. You brought to mind some things that
I didn't think of in my original post. The AC ceased blowing cold last fall according to my wife. I hadn't driven the car much, so it was hard for me to tell, but it didn't seem to be cycling on at all. As we went through the winter, the bearings started to complain, and the funny thing was that the idler pulley for the belt around the crank, alt, and compressor was making noise too. I narrowed that down by pulling the idler and checking it. It had some definite roughness in the bearings. I replaced it and the noise went away. Two weeks later, I'm on my way to JFK airport (a 2 hour trip), halfway there and I'm starting to hear bearing noise! I got to the airport, and about halfway home, it started to complain a little bit more occasionally. About a half hour from home, it started to complain loudly, then it got quiet. Then the alternator light came on! As this was mid-January in upstate NY, I removed the idler, bought a belt for a non-AC car and removed the remains of the clutch assembly. The clutch all but fell off. The So, now, I'm thinking quite a bit harder about all of this. I just checked, and for sure, the compressor is siezed. I also put the low side only pressure guage I've got on the line. It does have pressure in the low side. I'm not sure how accurate the guage on my $20 charging hose is, but it reads about 65 psi. They don't make it easy to get to! The compressor is on the bottom of the motor, and the low side port is on the hose where I have to reach in between the front of the motor and the radiator under the intake ram. I truly wish I could afford to buy a vacuum pump. I see electric vacuum pumps on ebay for a little over $200. What about the vacuum pumps that operate on compressed air? They're a lot cheaper, but how do they work? Steve B. wrote: > On 14 Apr 2006 19:41:01 -0700, "bruce" > wrote: > > >The clutch on my '00 Voyager's compressor grenaded itself this winter. > >I'm presuming the compressor siezed and the compressor engaging with > >the defroster caused the bearings to fail. I guess I was lucky it > >didn't shoot the bearings out through the radiator, and I was close > >enough to home that I made it home on battery with no belt turning the > >alternator. > > > > You need to know what happened first. If in fact the compressor did > seize then you need to flush the system and I would replace the > orifice along with the dryer. If the compressor did not seize there > isn't any real reason to have to flush. The compressor warranty may > require that you replace the orifice as well as the dryer. > > I haven't had very good luck with rebuilt compressors . Especially > stay away from the "Four Siezens" compressors sold at the discount > auto parts places. The labor to flush the system, dryer, orifice and > vacuum / recharge are at least half the cost of repair. If you buy a > cheesy rebuilt compressor that fails in short order all that money is > lost. > > If the compressor did seize I would take it to an A/C shop for repair > and use what ever compressor they recommend. This way if it fails > again you have a warranty on the entire repair. If you replace the > compressor and have them do all the rest your savings can quickly go > up in smoke since no shop is going to warranty parts you put on. > > If the compressor didn't seize then go have the 134a recovered, > replace the compressor dryer and orifice and have the shop vacuum it > and recharge. If you think you are going to do more a/c work in the > future it may be worth it to you to go ahead and buy a vacuum pump > (about $250) and a decent set of gauges (about $100). Years ago I > found that I could buy all the tools and fix it myself for the same > price a shop wanted to do the job. Those tools have come in handy at > least half a dozen times since then and I consider them to be a wise > investment. > > Steve B. |
#7
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'00 Voyager Compressor questions
On 15 Apr 2006 18:20:11 -0700, "bruce" > wrote:
>As this was mid-January in upstate NY, I removed the idler, bought a >belt for a non-AC car and removed the remains of the clutch assembly. >The clutch all but fell off. The > >So, now, I'm thinking quite a bit harder about all of this. I just >checked, and for sure, the compressor is siezed. The pulley is seized or the compressor is seized? I suspect that the bearing in the pulley has failed and it seized up. The compressor is actually driven by the clutch assembly on the front of the unit. Sounds to me like the clutch is missing from your unit now. This could be good news if only the pulley seized. You probably still need a new compressor but at least you won't have a system full of shrapnel. >I truly wish I could afford to buy a vacuum pump. I see electric >vacuum pumps on ebay for a little over $200. What about the vacuum >pumps that operate on compressed air? They're a lot cheaper, but how >do they work? Not very well. The principle is that the air rushing through the unit provided by the compressor will draw a vacuum on the system. My neighbor tried to use and while it worked somewhat it didn't draw a deep enough vacuum to boil the moisture out of the system. Steve B. |
#8
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'00 Voyager Compressor questions
"philthy" > wrote in message ... > do u have access to a recycle machine?? what are u going to do wiht the > r134 vent it in the air???? The EPA switched to R134a because it was environmentally friendly, so what is the problem? ;-) > get a clutch assembly no recyling needed And watch it burn up the second you engage the compressor. > how are u going to pull a vac on the system?? do u have rear air it more > than likely leaks at the fitting in the rear adn there is a chance the > ecvap coil is leaking a well known issue > Oh dear, looks like Chrysler doesen't care about the environment either, all those bad evaporators. Ted > bruce wrote: > > > The clutch on my '00 Voyager's compressor grenaded itself this winter. > > I'm presuming the compressor siezed and the compressor engaging with > > the defroster caused the bearings to fail. I guess I was lucky it > > didn't shoot the bearings out through the radiator, and I was close > > enough to home that I made it home on battery with no belt turning the > > alternator. > > > > Now that the weather is warming up, I'm setting about the business of > > getting the AC system back up to snuff so that my wife and kids are > > happy. My research thus far tells me a clutch is nearly as expensive > > as a clutch and a compressor together. Here are my questions: > > > > - recommendations on buying compressor/clutch off ebay? > > - reman compressor/clutch combos are about half the cost of a new one > > (140 vs. 280). What's the life expectency of a good reman? > > - I know I'll want to replace the drier along with the compressor. > > What are the chances I'll need an expansion valve (I think Chrysler > > calls this an H block)? How do I diagnose the if the H block is > > crudded up? Throw some 134 in and see if it chills? > > > > Note: No matter what I do, I do plan to have the system evac'd, drawn > > down, and filled back up with the proper amount of oil and 134 when I'm > > done. Should I have them flush the system out when we do that? > |
#9
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'00 Voyager Compressor questions
"Steve B." > wrote in message ... > On 15 Apr 2006 18:20:11 -0700, "bruce" > wrote: > > >As this was mid-January in upstate NY, I removed the idler, bought a > >belt for a non-AC car and removed the remains of the clutch assembly. > >The clutch all but fell off. The > > > >So, now, I'm thinking quite a bit harder about all of this. I just > >checked, and for sure, the compressor is siezed. > > The pulley is seized or the compressor is seized? I suspect that the > bearing in the pulley has failed and it seized up. The compressor is > actually driven by the clutch assembly on the front of the unit. > Sounds to me like the clutch is missing from your unit now. This > could be good news if only the pulley seized. You probably still need > a new compressor but at least you won't have a system full of > shrapnel. > > >I truly wish I could afford to buy a vacuum pump. I see electric > >vacuum pumps on ebay for a little over $200. What about the vacuum > >pumps that operate on compressed air? They're a lot cheaper, but how > >do they work? > > > Not very well. The principle is that the air rushing through the unit > provided by the compressor will draw a vacuum on the system. My > neighbor tried to use and while it worked somewhat it didn't draw a > deep enough vacuum to boil the moisture out of the system. > They work fine if you have a good compressor. I have one and I have a floor compressor that runs off 220v and it draws vacuum down to the required level (22Hg I think it is, but I forget) and I could clearly see boiling moisture in the clear tube that I had running from the vacuum to the system. (I put in a few water droplets to see what would happen) The key with these is to run 3/4 inch or larger hose from the compressor tank to the vacuum. I also recommend you add 2 things, a valve that is between the vacuum port and the system and a vacuum guage. When the system is completely evacuated, you will want to close the valve then shut off the vacuum then leave it overnight, to see if there are any leaks. If the system is leaking in the morning you will have no vacuum in it. Ted |
#10
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'00 Voyager Compressor questions
"Backbone" > wrote in message ... > Unless your a certified A/C tech!! Your going to need to take it in! Any > type of A/C service almost always requires a certified A/C tech to work on > the A/C system. > This isn't true, A/C work is like any other repair, it takes some specialized tools and know how but it can easily be done at home. The only issue with A/C work is that if your are breaking into a fully charged system, legally you must have the refrigerant reclaimed, that is generally beyond the capabilities of a home shadetree mechanic. However the fact of the matter is that most of the time that an A/C system fails, the system fails due to a leak, so there isn't refrigerant in the system when you go to work on it. All the same it is important to never treat an A/C system as discharged. About 6 months ago I was in a wrecking yard, a U-pull-it, looking for a condensor and hoses and such for my '94 T&C. I found a wrecked van that had everything I needed and happily set to removing the A/C hoses. When I unbolted the first hose the system exploded in my face - it was still charged (a serious violation, I will state as wreckers are required by law to evac A/C systems on any vehicle they take in) Fortunately I was wearing glasses and the oil and refrigerant didn't damage my eyes as a result. I was pretty surprised and even more embarassed that I had taken for granted that the system was discharged. The silver lining was that I knew then that all hoses, condensor, compressor, and accumulator were still good, so I took all of them. I will say also one other thing about the recovery requirements. Back in the good old days before we knew that R12 was destroying the ozone layer, everybody just vented auto A/C systems to atmosphere, nobody recovered them. The laws that came in mandating recovery were a good thing then, when R12 was in use. But when R12 was banned, it was replaced with R134a that was supposed to be environmentally friendly. That is why you can buy cans of R134a in the store. But the laws mandating recovery are still on the books. Why, is a very good question. Some claim now that R134a is environmentally damaging. However, asthma inhalers are charged with R134a, and electronic freeze spray is R134a, neither of these ventings of R134a are recovered. And, R134a is also used a a propellent for blown insulation, where once again it is not recovered either when it outgasses from the insulation. And I believe it is also used in hairspray. So while I agree in principle that it probably is a good thing to err on the side of caution and recover refrigerant, I think it is a rather rediculous law since there's tons of R134a that is legally released to the atmosphere with other products. It's like legally mandating the little dutch boy to stick his finger in a dike that has as many holes in it as swiss cheese. If you do want to follow the law, some A/C places will recover your refrigerant for free - because they make money selling their recovered R134a to refineries. Ted |
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