Won't start

I have a '94 1.0 geo metro that won't start. I shut it off after work
one evening and it hasn't started since. I tried priming the trottle
body with gas and it would not fire. I tried spraying the cylinders with
a starting fluid and it would not fire. I can hear the fuel pump running
and the plugs were a little wet from repeated attempts to start it. I
swapped out the coil and was able to get a voltmeter reading through it
into the distributor. I could not get a voltmeter reading out of the
distributor to the plugs. So I went online and got a another distributor
that had the ignitor module checked out as "OK". I put it in and still
nothing. It'll turn over but will not fire. It acts like it wants to
very briefly after its been sitting awhile but nothing sustained or
promising. I don't know what to try next. Does anyone have any ideas on
what to look at next? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

To check for spark, pull one spark plug wire off of sparkplug.
Grab the boot and twist left and right till boot spins alittle, so you
know not stuck to sparkplug. Then try pulling straight back by
grabbing boot very hard. Sometimes metal end breaks off.
Then put phillips screwdriver into boot, hold by handle of
screwdriver and hold shaft of screwdriver about 1/2 inch from metal nut
of valve cover and have someone crank engine. Make sure engine in park
(automatic) and nuetral if manual and it is a good idea to have parking
brake set. A spark should be seen jumping from screwdriver handle to
metal of engine. Be careful of moving parts like fan, belts, etc.
Spark should jump as you pull screwdriver to about 3/4 inch from metal
depending on spark system. This is the basic way we check for spark.
If no spark at wires try pulling coil wire from distributor and
hold with insulated pliers about 1/2 inch from engine metal. You need
spark, like you need fuel.

First, I would suggest you do a little troubleshooting, rather than parts
replacing.
The latter gets very expensive.

The holy trinity of engine function includes:
(1) ignition spark, at the proper time
(2) fuel delivery, at the proper mixture, and
(3) compression, at the proper point in the cycle

Get those three right, and it almost has to run.

For (1), buy yourself a cheap spark plug tester. To use it, attach it
between a spark plug cable and ground. Try to start the car while someone
watches for the condition of the spark. If poor or no spark, then find out
why. If you do have spark, make sure it is at the proper time in the engine
cycle. A timing light
is the best way to determine this, but it isn't the only way.

For (2), assuming you have good spark, the starter fluid spray should give
you some indication of starting. Have someone turn the engine over while
you spray
some of the ether into the intake. Don't go overboard...if it starts now,
look for fuel problems. (Note, fuel should be clean, free of water and
trash. Filter should be changed to be on the safe side.)

For (3), if your timing chain ( or belt, or gear) fails so that your cam and
crankshaft get out of synchronization, then you will not get compression at
the proper time and the engine will not start and run. A simple check is to
take out
all sparkplugs, put your finger over the number one sparkplug hole, and then
rotate the engine carefully by hand until you feel the pressure peak. (Take
out all the spark plugs so that the engine is easier to turn, and so that it
can't possibly start while you are draped into the engine compartment). When
you feel the pressure peaking, look at the pointer on the crankshaft pulley.
It should in the vicinity of the 0 degrees TDC timing mark.

These three tests take a minimum of tools and skill, but can point you in
the right direction, if not find the problem for you.

Good luck

HLS wrote:
> First, I would suggest you do a little troubleshooting, rather than parts
> replacing.
> The latter gets very expensive.
>
> The holy trinity of engine function includes:
> (1) ignition spark, at the proper time
> (2) fuel delivery, at the proper mixture, and
> (3) compression, at the proper point in the cycle
>
> Get those three right, and it almost has to run.
>
> For (1), buy yourself a cheap spark plug tester. To use it, attach it
> between a spark plug cable and ground. Try to start the car while someone
> watches for the condition of the spark. If poor or no spark, then find out
> why. If you do have spark, make sure it is at the proper time in the engine
> cycle. A timing light
> is the best way to determine this, but it isn't the only way.
>
> For (2), assuming you have good spark, the starter fluid spray should give
> you some indication of starting. Have someone turn the engine over while
> you spray
> some of the ether into the intake. Don't go overboard...if it starts now,
> look for fuel problems. (Note, fuel should be clean, free of water and
> trash. Filter should be changed to be on the safe side.)
>
> For (3), if your timing chain ( or belt, or gear) fails so that your cam and
> crankshaft get out of synchronization, then you will not get compression at
> the proper time and the engine will not start and run. A simple check is to
> take out
> all sparkplugs, put your finger over the number one sparkplug hole, and then
> rotate the engine carefully by hand until you feel the pressure peak. (Take
> out all the spark plugs so that the engine is easier to turn, and so that it
> can't possibly start while you are draped into the engine compartment). When
> you feel the pressure peaking, look at the pointer on the crankshaft pulley.
> It should in the vicinity of the 0 degrees TDC timing mark.
>
> These three tests take a minimum of tools and skill, but can point you in
> the right direction, if not find the problem for you.
>
> Good luck

You must be an instructor.
This post should go into the FAQ, verbatium.
This post says exactly what I long to say to folks that are confronted with
their first balky car. It is complete and much better written than I could
have done.

Good Job, HLS!

--Winston

"Winston" > wrote in message
...
> HLS wrote:
>> First, I would suggest you do a little troubleshooting, rather than
>> parts
>> replacing.
>> The latter gets very expensive.
>>
>> The holy trinity of engine function includes:
>> (1) ignition spark, at the proper time
>> (2) fuel delivery, at the proper mixture, and
>> (3) compression, at the proper point in the cycle
>>
>> Get those three right, and it almost has to run.
>>
>> For (1), buy yourself a cheap spark plug tester. To use it, attach
>> it
>> between a spark plug cable and ground. Try to start the car while
>> someone
>> watches for the condition of the spark. If poor or no spark, then
>> find out
>> why. If you do have spark, make sure it is at the proper time in the
>> engine
>> cycle. A timing light
>> is the best way to determine this, but it isn't the only way.
>>
>> For (2), assuming you have good spark, the starter fluid spray should
>> give
>> you some indication of starting. Have someone turn the engine over
>> while
>> you spray
>> some of the ether into the intake. Don't go overboard...if it starts
>> now,
>> look for fuel problems. (Note, fuel should be clean, free of water
>> and
>> trash. Filter should be changed to be on the safe side.)
>>
>> For (3), if your timing chain ( or belt, or gear) fails so that your
>> cam and
>> crankshaft get out of synchronization, then you will not get
>> compression at
>> the proper time and the engine will not start and run. A simple
>> check is to
>> take out
>> all sparkplugs, put your finger over the number one sparkplug hole,
>> and then
>> rotate the engine carefully by hand until you feel the pressure peak.
>> (Take
>> out all the spark plugs so that the engine is easier to turn, and so
>> that it
>> can't possibly start while you are draped into the engine
>> compartment). When
>> you feel the pressure peaking, look at the pointer on the crankshaft
>> pulley.
>> It should in the vicinity of the 0 degrees TDC timing mark.
>>
>> These three tests take a minimum of tools and skill, but can point
>> you in
>> the right direction, if not find the problem for you.
>>
>> Good luck
>
> You must be an instructor.
> This post should go into the FAQ, verbatium.
> This post says exactly what I long to say to folks that are confronted
> with
> their first balky car. It is complete and much better written than I
> could
> have done.
>
> Good Job, HLS!
>
> --Winston
>
Then add a little bit which may be his real problem.

Many modern cars have security systems the will not allow the car to
start after an attempt has been made without the correct key or the
computer has a heart attack

The symptom is -- The starter turns OK but the engine sounds like there
is no spark.
First step is to disconnect the battery and wait a few seconds then
reconnect it and try again.
(This worked for me on an Australian made GM product that just went to
limp mode for no reason then would not start at next try.)

Second step is to get dealer to reset security.
(Saw this happen in a Mitsubishi that owner tried to start with a key
that fitted but did not have the chip in the plastic in the key head.)

I will admit I have no idea what computer or security system the OPs car
has, I am just adding this to the general fault finding process because
it is outside the traditional coil plugs and carburettor problems.
--
John G

Wot's Your Real Problem?

Thanks for the reply but please keep in mind that the car was running
without a problem and then just would not start. I changed the timing
belt about 2000 miles prior to this so the timing and performance were
all there.
I am thinking this is electrical. From the tests that I have done I
have come to the conclusion that I'm not getting spark at the cylinder.
The voltmeter barely moves when I try to crank it over even though I
have a sufficient power supply going into the coil via voltmeter reading.
As I live alone it is hard to look for spark when you have to do it
yourself. That's why I use a voltmeter. My question is, and there aren't
many/any sensors [crank, cam etc] on this engine to go bad. What kind of
module should I be looking for to test that will kill the spark from the
at the distributor before it goes to the cylinder?
I have a bunch of spare parts sitting around here so swapping out one
for another is not an issue. I wrecked one and kept all the parts when I
assembled a metro from a worn out car with the parts from the one I wrecked.
Replacement parts are expensive that's why I want to make sure I have
the right part before I go out and get more.

thanks




HLS wrote:
> First, I would suggest you do a little troubleshooting, rather than parts
> replacing.
> The latter gets very expensive.
>
> The holy trinity of engine function includes:
> (1) ignition spark, at the proper time
> (2) fuel delivery, at the proper mixture, and
> (3) compression, at the proper point in the cycle
>
> Get those three right, and it almost has to run.
>
> For (1), buy yourself a cheap spark plug tester. To use it, attach it
> between a spark plug cable and ground. Try to start the car while someone
> watches for the condition of the spark. If poor or no spark, then find out
> why. If you do have spark, make sure it is at the proper time in the engine
> cycle. A timing light
> is the best way to determine this, but it isn't the only way.
>
> For (2), assuming you have good spark, the starter fluid spray should give
> you some indication of starting. Have someone turn the engine over while
> you spray
> some of the ether into the intake. Don't go overboard...if it starts now,
> look for fuel problems. (Note, fuel should be clean, free of water and
> trash. Filter should be changed to be on the safe side.)
>
> For (3), if your timing chain ( or belt, or gear) fails so that your cam and
> crankshaft get out of synchronization, then you will not get compression at
> the proper time and the engine will not start and run. A simple check is to
> take out
> all sparkplugs, put your finger over the number one sparkplug hole, and then
> rotate the engine carefully by hand until you feel the pressure peak. (Take
> out all the spark plugs so that the engine is easier to turn, and so that it
> can't possibly start while you are draped into the engine compartment). When
> you feel the pressure peaking, look at the pointer on the crankshaft pulley.
> It should in the vicinity of the 0 degrees TDC timing mark.
>
> These three tests take a minimum of tools and skill, but can point you in
> the right direction, if not find the problem for you.
>
> Good luck
>
>
>
>
>

"mbjj" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> Thanks for the reply but please keep in mind that the car was running
> without a problem and then just would not start. I changed the timing
> belt about 2000 miles prior to this so the timing and performance were
> all there.
> I am thinking this is electrical. From the tests that I have done I
> have come to the conclusion that I'm not getting spark at the
> cylinder.
> The voltmeter barely moves when I try to crank it over even though I
> have a sufficient power supply going into the coil via voltmeter
> reading.
> As I live alone it is hard to look for spark when you have to do it
> yourself. That's why I use a voltmeter. My question is, and there
> aren't many/any sensors [crank, cam etc] on this engine to go bad.
> What kind of module should I be looking for to test that will kill the
> spark from the at the distributor before it goes to the cylinder?
> I have a bunch of spare parts sitting around here so swapping out
> one for another is not an issue. I wrecked one and kept all the parts
> when I assembled a metro from a worn out car with the parts from the
> one I wrecked.
> Replacement parts are expensive that's why I want to make sure I
> have the right part before I go out and get more.
>
> thanks
>
You cannot realy test the SPARK voltage with a meter espesially a digitl
meter, you will most likely damage the meter.
The way some service mechs do it is to get a spark plug and connect it
to one of the plug leads and lay it on top of the metal (not the pretty
plastic bits) part of the engine, then you can watch for spark as you
stand at the door and turn the key.
--
John G

Wot's Your Real Problem?

"John G" > wrote in message news:OLrWd.517
> You cannot realy test the SPARK voltage with a meter espesially a digitl
> meter, you will most likely damage the meter.
> The way some service mechs do it is to get a spark plug and connect it
> to one of the plug leads and lay it on top of the metal (not the pretty
> plastic bits) part of the engine, then you can watch for spark as you
> stand at the door and turn the key.
> --
> John G

I agree with John G. A voltmeter is not the best tool here. A spark plug
can
work fine. To remove the need for a helper, you can buy a remote starter
switch for a couple of bucks which will allow you to spin the engine over
from under the hood. This is a good tool to have .