MFFY du jour...

"Brent P" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, Scott en Aztlán
> wrote:
>
>> That's not what the rules say, Skippy. As long as there is a
>> handicapped person riding in the vehicle, the driver is entitled to
>> parlk there, whether he himself is handicapped or not. This is to
>> accommodate handicapped people who cannot drive themselves at all.
>
> I remember getting a few looks when using a handicaped parking space
> without plates or placards. Just long enough to get my grandfather out of
> the car, where then my mother would take him inside and then I would go
> park the car in the boonies. Reversing the operation to leave. Of course I
> don't know why they were looking, but plate or not, we were using the
> space for it's intended purpose and only for a few minutes at that.

Friend of mine is in a wheelchair, has been for 62 years. Back when he got
his first motor-lift van (before then, I got to load him into his van by
hand), his attendant was parking in the handicap spots but he didn't have
plates or a placard. He would always leave a note for the parking attendant
in lieu of a placard but still got tickets even though the lift was plain to
see. He finally got a placard.

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 01:34:10 GMT, "Skip Elliott Bowman"
> wrote:

>"Big Bill" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 19:26:50 GMT, "Skip Elliott Bowman"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>"Harry K" > wrote in message
egroups.com...
>>>
>>>> In my case you will find my parking in DP slots quite often. Looking
>>>> at me you couldn't tell that anything was wrong. You would be correct,
>>>> there isn't. I park in DP spots because my wife is disabled and I am
>>>> taking her there or picking her up.
>>>
>>>That being the case, Harry, if you're driving your wife there and picking
>>>her up, couldn't you just drop her at the door and then park in a regular
>>>spot? Those spots are for people who are driving themselves and can't
>>>handle long walks.
>>
>> No they aren't. They are for vehicles showing the plate or plackard.
>> If you genuinely think there's abuse happening, you are free to call
>> the police.
>
>I'll rephrase: the plates and placards are for the cars used by the people
>who drive but can't walk a long distance. Unfortunately, others may have
>access to that car and take selfish advantage of the privilege that they
>themselves don't need.

Thanks for the rephrasing. I like that a lot better.
And yes, some do abuse the plates.
>
>>>Not criticizing, just curious and asking. I see people who are
>>>able-bodied
>>>and driving a car with handicap plates or placards, but they don't need
>>>them
>>>themselves; they just think because the placard or plate is there they
>>>have
>>>a right to the spot. I'm not saying you're one of those people, mind you.
>>>That description would fit the OP's post.
>>>
>> Why do you think they are able-bodied? Are you familiar with whatever
>> condition they might have?
>> Or do you just think so?
>
>You made some good points earlier; not being a medical diagnostician, it's
>impossible to tell most times. But if I see someone who is obviously
>healthy, hale, and hearty, carrying a gym bag, and dashing inside, it's a
>safe bet. I'm not saying I'm always right any more than you are. We aren't
>talking about people with non-obvious health issues; we're talking about
>scofflaws.

My point is that it's sometimes very difficult to tell who's got what.
As I elaborated in an earlier post, in my case, you might well get the
idea that the plate isn't warranted, as I can walk pretty well (I do
have a limp that's not always obvious).
Maybe because of my situation, I am pretty 'militant' on saying that
others do not have the knowledge to question the use of those plates.
>
>> Well, you're free to call the police if you do. But be awa if you
>> call too often and display your ignorance while doing so, they might
>> just start ignoring you when you call, or even cite you for false
>> reporting.
>
>So I'd better be sure I'm on solid ground, and it would have to be an
>obvious and egregious offense. No problem.
>
>I'm not in the habit of calling police over every little problem (my dad was
>a cop, my mom was a court reporter, and my grandmother was a PO). I called
>them twice last year; one to report a car fire and the other to report a
>stalled vehicle in the middle of the prairie. What made you think I needed
>a lecture on how to report a crime?
>
Becasue of an often expressed opinion by several here that they would
like to take action when they decide the plates are being abused.
If that's not you, I apologize.

--
Bill Funk
Change "g" to "a"

"Big Bill" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 01:34:10 GMT, "Skip Elliott Bowman"
> > wrote:

> My point is that it's sometimes very difficult to tell who's got what.
> As I elaborated in an earlier post, in my case, you might well get the
> idea that the plate isn't warranted, as I can walk pretty well (I do
> have a limp that's not always obvious).
> Maybe because of my situation, I am pretty 'militant' on saying that
> others do not have the knowledge to question the use of those plates.

ITA sometimes it's hard to tell. I'd say most of the time, maybe 85%. It's
the other 15% that concerns me.

>>> Well, you're free to call the police if you do. But be awa if you
>>> call too often and display your ignorance while doing so, they might
>>> just start ignoring you when you call, or even cite you for false
>>> reporting.
>>
>>So I'd better be sure I'm on solid ground, and it would have to be an
>>obvious and egregious offense. No problem.
>>
>>I'm not in the habit of calling police over every little problem (my dad
>>was
>>a cop, my mom was a court reporter, and my grandmother was a PO). I
>>called
>>them twice last year; one to report a car fire and the other to report a
>>stalled vehicle in the middle of the prairie. What made you think I
>>needed
>>a lecture on how to report a crime?
>>
> Becasue of an often expressed opinion by several here that they would
> like to take action when they decide the plates are being abused.
> If that's not you, I apologize.

I think we're on the same side, here. No apology necessary.

Big Bill wrote:
>
> On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 23:52:18 GMT, Arif Khokar >
> wrote:
>
> >Big Bill wrote:
> >
> >> On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 21:47:50 GMT, Arif Khokar >
> >> wrote:
> >
> >>>>Also no medical knowledge. But don't let that stop you.
> >
> >>>Would the reason you're alluding to have anything to do with
> >>>claudication? If so, a periphral vascular bypass operation should solve
> >>>that problem.
> >
> >> You and Daniel are showing a problem in your attitudes and knowledge.
> >> It's not up to you to make any judgements in the use of handicapped
> >> plates/plackards, or offer medical advice.
> >
> >I'm not offering medical advice. I just tried to come up with a
> >possible medical condition that would support your argument. Since you
> >snapped at me in response, it goes to show that your argument is tenuous
> >at best.
>
> No, it shows that you are trying to justify something you have no
> reason to justify.
> I can speak for Arizona: here, it takes a doctor's description and
> professional opinion that the handicapped plate is warranted.
> While I don't *know* about othert states, I'd bet most if not all have
> something similar; the driver can't just go into the DMV and ask for a
> handicapp plate.

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/vr/vr_info.htm#BM2516 explains who qualifies and
links to a downloadable form.

> When you presume to do as you did (offer a diagnosis, and a procedure
> that would fix it), you're being seen by me as second-guessing the
> system and the doctor and the driver. IMO, that's kind of arrogant.
> That you or anyone else doesn't see and recognize the handicap doesn't
> mean there isn't one.

Arrogance (like greed) is in the mind of the wimpy observer. Each of us
deeply disapproves of those who are seen to be milking the system in
ways that we ourselves cannot do.

> Yes, I *am* sensitive on this; I haver such a plate, and for a good
> reason. And no, on first glance, I don't seem to have a handicap. And,
> for what it's worth, I am damn lucky to be walking at all. I spent
> months in a wheelchair and on crutches. I had, according to two
> different doctors, an over 80% chance of never walking right again.
> That I can is only due to (IMO) God's grace.

Perhaps, but I suspect it's more likely that it's because you worked
your ass off to walk again. Congratulations.

> It's insulting to me and many others when people make the type of
> comments that have been made here, just becasue they aren't privy to
> what's going on.

Why do you take it as an insult if total strangers think you might be
cheating? Why do you even care?

> Sorry if I offend, but that's the way I feel.

Why should we be offended? Damn, doesn't ANYBODY have skin thick enough
to protect their delicate feelings any more?

--
Cheers,
Bev
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooo
"Few skills are so well rewarded as the ability to convince
parasites that they are victims." --Thomas Sowell

"Scott en Aztlán" wrote:
>
> > wrote:

> >And it takes about 10-15 seconds (usually less) for them to exit the car,
> >then the car moves out of the way.
>
> I take it you don't have any handicapped friends or family.
>
> My grandfather, who could still walk back when I used to drive hikm
> around, took 45 - 60 seconds just to get into or out of the car.
> Imagine how much more time it would have taken if he was wheelchair
> bound, with the folded-up wheelchair attached to a bike rack on the
> trunk.

Same for my MIL. While most places have more handicapped parking than
they need, the 5-story building that houses several hundred doctors
(including 6 of hers) has WAYYYY too little handicapped parking and it's
located a few hundred feet from the front door. I'm assured by the
building engineer that their handicapped parking meets all the legal
requirements. No wonder we have such disrespect for the law.

> I love it when morons paint themselves into a corner.

I don't; they start flinging the paint and it gets real ugly real fast.

--
Cheers, Bev
=============================================
You need only two tools: WD-40 and duct tape.
If it doesn't move and it should, use WD-40.
If it moves and shouldn't, use duct tape.

Skip Elliott Bowman wrote:
>
> "Scott en Aztlán" > wrote:
> >
> > > wrote:
> >
> >>>>That being the case, Harry, if you're driving your wife there and
> >>>>picking
> >>>>her up, couldn't you just drop her at the door and then park in a
> >>>>regular
> >>>>spot? Those spots are for people who are driving themselves and can't
> >>>>handle long walks.
> >>>
> >>> That's not what the rules say, Skippy. As long as there is a
> >>> handicapped person riding in the vehicle, the driver is entitled to
> >>> parlk there, whether he himself is handicapped or not. This is to
> >>> accommodate handicapped people who cannot drive themselves at all.
> >>
> >>How many aliases do you have?
> >
> > You sound confused.
>
> I am. I thought you were Scott, but then when I ask a question of someone
> else you answer as if you were them. It's a case of you are an individual
> using the names Scott, Daniel, Bill, and a few others, or you just like
> speaking for them. I know, it's Usenet, and I enjoy many of your posts
> (under the name Scott) but that doesn't mean that people can't speak for
> themselves.

Welcome to usenet. It's perfectly OK to respond to something that
appears several layers back in a post written by somebody other than the
current poster. Honest.

> > Unlike some around here, I do not nymshift.
>
> Nymshift? I've never heard that term.

Another new word is "sock" as in "sockpuppet," which is the result of
nymshifting.

> >>> Besides, I would much rather have the gimps spend 20 minutes getting
> >>> into/out of their cars in an out-of-the-way parking spot than to block
> >>> the main traffic aisle for 20 minutes because the driver took your
> >>> advice.
> >>
> >>I take it you don't have any handicap friends or family; at least none
> >>with
> >>whom you've shared this view. And I never suggested blocking a traffic
> >>aisle.
> >
> > You said the non-handicapped driver should drop the handicapped
> > passenger off AT THE DOOR and then go park in a regular parking space.
> >
> > I suppose you meant that the driver should pull up onto the sidewalk
> > to discharge his handicapped passenger?
>
> Yes. You embroidered on that point, though--I never once said he should
> just sit there and block a lane for 20 minutes. You made that up. What,
> you've never stopped to drop someone off and blocked a lane (never more than
> 15 seconds) before?

It's really rude to allow traffic to pile up behind you while you help
your elderly/handicapped passenger get to a place of safety where she
can wait for you until you've parked the car. Handicapped parking
places are there to be used by handicapped people with handicapped
placards. Appealing to some higher level of righteousness is just
silly.

> Am I right about you having only able-bodied people in your family/circle of
> friends?

--
Cheers, Bev
=============================================
You need only two tools: WD-40 and duct tape.
If it doesn't move and it should, use WD-40.
If it moves and shouldn't, use duct tape.

It's just pure laziness. Most Americans could use the exercise from
having to park a little further away.

I remember reading a sick bit of news- apparrently they have car doors now
that open and close themselves. Only in America can people be that lazy.

"Harry K" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> John David Galt wrote:
> > Big Bill wrote:
> > > There are many handicaps where the person looks fine, and can even
> do
> > > some physical activities you can't do, yet still has a problem that
> > > makes, for example, walking any distance very hard, and yet offers
> no
> > > problems with using a manual tranmsmission.
> >
> > That I can believe. But climbing into a jacked-up truck? Get real.
> >
> > > In fact, in my own case, you'd probably wonder why I have a
> > > handicapped plate on my vehicle. No matter, I (and others) don't
> need
> > > to report to you, nor do we need to justify our plates to you.
> >
> > No matter, people like him (and me) do have good cause to call the
> cops
> > and let you explain it to them. Because nearly all people who look
> > like they're abusing their handicap plates, ARE.
>
> In my case you will find my parking in DP slots quite often. Looking
> at me you couldn't tell that anything was wrong. You would be correct,
> there isn't. I park in DP spots because my wife is disabled and I am
> taking her there or picking her up. Don't assume that a capable person
> parking in a DP spot doesn't have the right to do so. That said, there
> are too many abuses of the priviledge.
>
This issue appears to be a symptom of the lack of classification for the
disabled placards, at least IMHO.

They should have had like a DP-A for an otherwise "able-bodied" handicap and
DP-B for an otherwise "disabling" handicap.

That way, while it would still nobody's business what a person's handicap
might be, someone with a DP-A placard (if it actually existed) wouldn't be
judged as automatically abusing a DP because they appeared to be walking
just fine.

"Skip Elliott Bowman" > wrote in
ink.net:

> "Jim Yanik" .> wrote in message
> .. .
>> "Skip Elliott Bowman" > wrote in
>> ink.net:
>>
>>> "Scott en Aztlán" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 19:26:50 GMT, "Skip Elliott Bowman"
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>"Harry K" > wrote in message
glegroups.com...
>>>>>
>>>>>> In my case you will find my parking in DP slots quite often.
>>>>>> Looking at me you couldn't tell that anything was wrong. You
>>>>>> would be correct, there isn't. I park in DP spots because my
>>>>>> wife is disabled and I am taking her there or picking her up.
>>>>>
>>>>>That being the case, Harry, if you're driving your wife there and
>>>>>picking her up, couldn't you just drop her at the door and then
>>>>>park in a regular spot? Those spots are for people who are driving
>>>>>themselves and can't handle long walks.
>>>>
>>>> That's not what the rules say, Skippy. As long as there is a
>>>> handicapped person riding in the vehicle, the driver is entitled to
>>>> parlk there, whether he himself is handicapped or not. This is to
>>>> accommodate handicapped people who cannot drive themselves at all.
>>>
>>> How many aliases do you have?
>>>
>>>> Besides, I would much rather have the gimps spend 20 minutes
>>>> getting into/out of their cars in an out-of-the-way parking spot
>>>> than to block the main traffic aisle for 20 minutes because the
>>>> driver took your advice.
>>>
>>> I take it you don't have any handicap friends or family; at least
>>> none with whom you've shared this view. And I never suggested
>>> blocking a traffic aisle. Designated parking spots don't block any
>>> aisles. You just made that part up.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> If you are "dropping her off *at the door*",then you would be in the
>> fire lane,the road that runs in front of the businesses,and certainly
>> blocking it (blocking the aisle) while you load/unload people.
>
> And it takes about 10-15 seconds (usually less) for them to exit the
> car, then the car moves out of the way.

In YOUR case,others will take much longer.Some elderly or handicapped can
take quite a long time getting out and stabilized and the vehicle back in
motion.

> That's a lot different from
> what Scott (or whatever his name really is) was alleging I wrote.
>
>> Your words;"That being the case, Harry, if you're driving your wife
>> there and picking her up, couldn't you just drop her at the door and
>> then park in a regular spot? "
>
> Exactly. Thank you.
>
>
>



--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

"Skip Elliott Bowman" > wrote in
link.net:

> "Scott en Aztlán" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 01:26:16 GMT, "Skip Elliott Bowman"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>That being the case, Harry, if you're driving your wife there and
>>>>>>>picking her up, couldn't you just drop her at the door and then
>>>>>>>park in a regular spot? Those spots are for people who are
>>>>>>>driving themselves and can't handle long walks.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Besides, I would much rather have the gimps spend 20 minutes
>>>>>> getting into/out of their cars in an out-of-the-way parking spot
>>>>>> than to block the main traffic aisle for 20 minutes because the
>>>>>> driver took your advice.
>>>>>
>>>>> I take it you don't have any handicap friends or family; at least
>>>>> none with whom you've shared this view. And I never suggested
>>>>> blocking a traffic aisle. Designated parking spots don't block
>>>>> any aisles. You just made that part up.
>>>>
>>>> If you are "dropping her off *at the door*",then you would be in
>>>> the fire
>>>> lane,the road that runs in front of the businesses,and certainly
>>>> blocking
>>>> it (blocking the aisle) while you load/unload people.
>>>
>>>And it takes about 10-15 seconds (usually less) for them to exit the
>>>car, then the car moves out of the way.
>>
>> I take it you don't have any handicapped friends or family.
>>
>> My grandfather, who could still walk back when I used to drive hikm
>> around, took 45 - 60 seconds just to get into or out of the car.
>> Imagine how much more time it would have taken if he was wheelchair
>> bound, with the folded-up wheelchair attached to a bike rack on the
>> trunk.
>
> Sorry to hear about your grandfather. But that illustrates my
> point--would you drop him at the door and then park, or park wherever
> (handicap spot or not) and make him walk all that ways?

I can see the local Wal-Mart,with dozens of handicapped all clogging the
fire lane next to (or as close as they can get)the entrance;none of them
"just hopping in/out and the vehicle moving on in a few seconds".

You seem to have picked the most idealistic situation for an example.
Life is not like that.

(think 'worst-case';what you have to design for.)

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net