'93 Grand Voyager crank, no start

My father's '93 Grand Voyager (3.0L, auto, 178k kms) decided not to start
today when he really needs it (it has been converted to a wheelchair van for
my brother long ago, a real lifesaver to say the least). She'll crank over
all day but won't catch. I do hear the fuel pump running for a few seconds
when switched to the run position. Being in a dark and rainy driveway rather
late at night I haven't been able to diagnose further. Are there any common
problems with this thing that I should be aware of? I know the tranny is
known to explode at around 180k (hoping it's miles), but it was running fine
last time I used it no more than two weeks ago. The gauge shows just over
1/4 tank of gas. I haven't checked for a spark yet (like I said, it's dark,
wet, late, and bloody cold). Can I check for trouble codes in this thing
like I do on my early-90's GMs or do I need a real scanner, not just a
paperclip? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated, I'd hate to have to
see if I can fold up that wheelchair and stuff it in my lil Jimmy this
weekend. Thanks guys.

"SBlackfoot" > wrote in message
...
> My father's '93 Grand Voyager (3.0L, auto, 178k kms) decided not to start
> today when he really needs it (it has been converted to a wheelchair van
for
> my brother long ago, a real lifesaver to say the least). She'll crank over
> all day but won't catch. I do hear the fuel pump running for a few seconds
> when switched to the run position. Being in a dark and rainy driveway
rather
> late at night I haven't been able to diagnose further. Are there any
common
> problems with this thing that I should be aware of? I know the tranny is
> known to explode at around 180k (hoping it's miles), but it was running
fine
> last time I used it no more than two weeks ago. The gauge shows just over
> 1/4 tank of gas. I haven't checked for a spark yet (like I said, it's
dark,
> wet, late, and bloody cold). Can I check for trouble codes in this thing
> like I do on my early-90's GMs or do I need a real scanner, not just a
> paperclip? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated, I'd hate to have
to
> see if I can fold up that wheelchair and stuff it in my lil Jimmy this
> weekend. Thanks guys.
>

You got to check for spark, find a old spark plug, pull one of the spark
wires
and put it on the plug, then lay the plug on the manifold and crank away.

If you got blue spark then chances are good that the timing belt snapped or
jumped teeth. Sorry if that is the case as changing it out is a PIA you
have to
unbolt stuff and getting the timing back right is a bit tricky. Not the
kind of
project you want to do in a dark, cold driveway.

Codes can be had with the on-off-on-off-on ignition key sequence. But if
the timing belt has broke or slipped, chasing codes is a waste of time. If
the belt has never been replaced, it's probably slipped or broken.

Ted

"SBlackfoot" > wrote in message
...
> My father's '93 Grand Voyager (3.0L, auto, 178k kms) decided not to start
> today when he really needs it (it has been converted to a wheelchair van
for
> my brother long ago, a real lifesaver to say the least). She'll crank over
> all day but won't catch. I do hear the fuel pump running for a few seconds
> when switched to the run position. Being in a dark and rainy driveway
rather
> late at night I haven't been able to diagnose further. Are there any
common
> problems with this thing that I should be aware of? I know the tranny is
> known to explode at around 180k (hoping it's miles), but it was running
fine
> last time I used it no more than two weeks ago. The gauge shows just over
> 1/4 tank of gas. I haven't checked for a spark yet (like I said, it's
dark,
> wet, late, and bloody cold). Can I check for trouble codes in this thing
> like I do on my early-90's GMs or do I need a real scanner, not just a
> paperclip? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated, I'd hate to have
to
> see if I can fold up that wheelchair and stuff it in my lil Jimmy this
> weekend. Thanks guys.
>

You got to check for spark, find a old spark plug, pull one of the spark
wires
and put it on the plug, then lay the plug on the manifold and crank away.

If you got blue spark then chances are good that the timing belt snapped or
jumped teeth. Sorry if that is the case as changing it out is a PIA you
have to
unbolt stuff and getting the timing back right is a bit tricky. Not the
kind of
project you want to do in a dark, cold driveway.

Codes can be had with the on-off-on-off-on ignition key sequence. But if
the timing belt has broke or slipped, chasing codes is a waste of time. If
the belt has never been replaced, it's probably slipped or broken.

Ted

> You got to check for spark, find a old spark plug, pull one of the spark
> wires
> and put it on the plug, then lay the plug on the manifold and crank away.
>
> If you got blue spark then chances are good that the timing belt snapped
or
> jumped teeth. Sorry if that is the case as changing it out is a PIA you
> have to
> unbolt stuff and getting the timing back right is a bit tricky. Not the
> kind of
> project you want to do in a dark, cold driveway.
>
> Codes can be had with the on-off-on-off-on ignition key sequence. But if
> the timing belt has broke or slipped, chasing codes is a waste of time.
If
> the belt has never been replaced, it's probably slipped or broken.


Thanks for the suggestions. I came home today to find that my father had
tried it again this morning and it fired right up, puffing a little dark
smoke on startup (presumably from fuel getting dumped in during cranking
last night). It idled well, no check engine light, no apparent problems. We
decided to take my brother to the mall and once we got there it stalled just
before we pulled into the parking spot. No warning of any kind, the engine
just quit. It did fire right back up and made it home with no problems. This
really doesn't give me much confidence in the ol' girl... I'm thinking a set
of plugs and leads couldn't hurt (I'm not sure if they've ever been
replaced) but still. Any comments?

> You got to check for spark, find a old spark plug, pull one of the spark
> wires
> and put it on the plug, then lay the plug on the manifold and crank away.
>
> If you got blue spark then chances are good that the timing belt snapped
or
> jumped teeth. Sorry if that is the case as changing it out is a PIA you
> have to
> unbolt stuff and getting the timing back right is a bit tricky. Not the
> kind of
> project you want to do in a dark, cold driveway.
>
> Codes can be had with the on-off-on-off-on ignition key sequence. But if
> the timing belt has broke or slipped, chasing codes is a waste of time.
If
> the belt has never been replaced, it's probably slipped or broken.


Thanks for the suggestions. I came home today to find that my father had
tried it again this morning and it fired right up, puffing a little dark
smoke on startup (presumably from fuel getting dumped in during cranking
last night). It idled well, no check engine light, no apparent problems. We
decided to take my brother to the mall and once we got there it stalled just
before we pulled into the parking spot. No warning of any kind, the engine
just quit. It did fire right back up and made it home with no problems. This
really doesn't give me much confidence in the ol' girl... I'm thinking a set
of plugs and leads couldn't hurt (I'm not sure if they've ever been
replaced) but still. Any comments?

"SBlackfoot" > wrote in message
...
> > You got to check for spark, find a old spark plug, pull one of the spark
> > wires
> > and put it on the plug, then lay the plug on the manifold and crank
away.
> >
> > If you got blue spark then chances are good that the timing belt snapped
> or
> > jumped teeth. Sorry if that is the case as changing it out is a PIA you
> > have to
> > unbolt stuff and getting the timing back right is a bit tricky. Not the
> > kind of
> > project you want to do in a dark, cold driveway.
> >
> > Codes can be had with the on-off-on-off-on ignition key sequence. But
if
> > the timing belt has broke or slipped, chasing codes is a waste of time.
> If
> > the belt has never been replaced, it's probably slipped or broken.
>
>
> Thanks for the suggestions. I came home today to find that my father had
> tried it again this morning and it fired right up, puffing a little dark
> smoke on startup (presumably from fuel getting dumped in during cranking
> last night). It idled well, no check engine light, no apparent problems.
We
> decided to take my brother to the mall and once we got there it stalled
just
> before we pulled into the parking spot. No warning of any kind, the engine
> just quit. It did fire right back up and made it home with no problems.
This
> really doesn't give me much confidence in the ol' girl... I'm thinking a
set
> of plugs and leads couldn't hurt (I'm not sure if they've ever been
> replaced) but still. Any comments?
>

Hmm well if it started again, it's not a snapped belt. Don't rule out the
timing
belt jumping a tooth though, although that is unlikely unless the belt
tensioner
is bad.

I'm thinking it's more like a crank position sensor or cam sensor. These
are
among the more common causes of intermittent problems like this on a
fuel injected car. It could also be the connectors to the sensors, possibly
compromised by water.

Ted

"SBlackfoot" > wrote in message
...
> > You got to check for spark, find a old spark plug, pull one of the spark
> > wires
> > and put it on the plug, then lay the plug on the manifold and crank
away.
> >
> > If you got blue spark then chances are good that the timing belt snapped
> or
> > jumped teeth. Sorry if that is the case as changing it out is a PIA you
> > have to
> > unbolt stuff and getting the timing back right is a bit tricky. Not the
> > kind of
> > project you want to do in a dark, cold driveway.
> >
> > Codes can be had with the on-off-on-off-on ignition key sequence. But
if
> > the timing belt has broke or slipped, chasing codes is a waste of time.
> If
> > the belt has never been replaced, it's probably slipped or broken.
>
>
> Thanks for the suggestions. I came home today to find that my father had
> tried it again this morning and it fired right up, puffing a little dark
> smoke on startup (presumably from fuel getting dumped in during cranking
> last night). It idled well, no check engine light, no apparent problems.
We
> decided to take my brother to the mall and once we got there it stalled
just
> before we pulled into the parking spot. No warning of any kind, the engine
> just quit. It did fire right back up and made it home with no problems.
This
> really doesn't give me much confidence in the ol' girl... I'm thinking a
set
> of plugs and leads couldn't hurt (I'm not sure if they've ever been
> replaced) but still. Any comments?
>

Hmm well if it started again, it's not a snapped belt. Don't rule out the
timing
belt jumping a tooth though, although that is unlikely unless the belt
tensioner
is bad.

I'm thinking it's more like a crank position sensor or cam sensor. These
are
among the more common causes of intermittent problems like this on a
fuel injected car. It could also be the connectors to the sensors, possibly
compromised by water.

Ted

> Hmm well if it started again, it's not a snapped belt. Don't rule out the
> timing
> belt jumping a tooth though, although that is unlikely unless the belt
> tensioner
> is bad.
>
> I'm thinking it's more like a crank position sensor or cam sensor. These
> are
> among the more common causes of intermittent problems like this on a
> fuel injected car. It could also be the connectors to the sensors,
possibly
> compromised by water.


I can't see the timing belt having jumped, it ran decently when I had to
take it into Toronto the other night. It felt like it was bogging down upon
decelleration but that was likely just me looking for something wrong.

I'm not the least bit familair with the Mitsubishi engine. How would I check
the crank position sensor or the cam sensor? I wasn't aware that it had
either. At this point I figure I'll have to wait until it acts up again and
troubleshoot from there.

> Hmm well if it started again, it's not a snapped belt. Don't rule out the
> timing
> belt jumping a tooth though, although that is unlikely unless the belt
> tensioner
> is bad.
>
> I'm thinking it's more like a crank position sensor or cam sensor. These
> are
> among the more common causes of intermittent problems like this on a
> fuel injected car. It could also be the connectors to the sensors,
possibly
> compromised by water.


I can't see the timing belt having jumped, it ran decently when I had to
take it into Toronto the other night. It felt like it was bogging down upon
decelleration but that was likely just me looking for something wrong.

I'm not the least bit familair with the Mitsubishi engine. How would I check
the crank position sensor or the cam sensor? I wasn't aware that it had
either. At this point I figure I'll have to wait until it acts up again and
troubleshoot from there.

Replaced both. They're not that expensive.



SBlackfoot wrote:

>>Hmm well if it started again, it's not a snapped belt. Don't rule out the
>>timing
>>belt jumping a tooth though, although that is unlikely unless the belt
>>tensioner
>>is bad.
>>
>>I'm thinking it's more like a crank position sensor or cam sensor. These
>>are
>>among the more common causes of intermittent problems like this on a
>>fuel injected car. It could also be the connectors to the sensors,
>
> possibly
>
>>compromised by water.
>
>
>
> I can't see the timing belt having jumped, it ran decently when I had to
> take it into Toronto the other night. It felt like it was bogging down upon
> decelleration but that was likely just me looking for something wrong.
>
> I'm not the least bit familair with the Mitsubishi engine. How would I check
> the crank position sensor or the cam sensor? I wasn't aware that it had
> either. At this point I figure I'll have to wait until it acts up again and
> troubleshoot from there.
>
>