Small block short water pump orientation

I am doing an engine swap for a SBC and the power steering pump
(Saginaw) is in the way. I can mount it on the passenger side, but
that means turning the short water pump upside down. Can the water
pump be mounted upside down? Anything special about doing it that way?

Thanks for the help.

Dave

Dave wrote:
> I am doing an engine swap for a SBC and the power steering pump
> (Saginaw) is in the way. I can mount it on the passenger side, but
> that means turning the short water pump upside down. Can the water
> pump be mounted upside down? Anything special about doing it that way?
>
> Thanks for the help.
>
> Dave
>

1)your lower rad hose inlet will be pointed to the driver side, so you
might have a hard time hooking it up...

2)the heater hose connection that's normally on top would be pretty near
impossible to use if you flipped it over.

Is it not possible to keep the pump on the driver side? There are quite
a few different sets of stock chevy brackets over the years, and as long
as you can get the pulleys lined up, it doesn't really matter where the
pump goes - on my race Camaro I had to make my own (cheesy looking but
effective) bracket because nothing lined up with the pump I had.

Ray

On the pump I have, the heater hose comes out the side, not the top, so
that isn't an issue. The radiator hose will be pointed to the driver
side and I can specify that the radiator have a driver side inlet.

The bigger question is does it make a difference if the pump is upside
down. Any holes to plug?

ray wrote:
> Dave wrote:
> > I am doing an engine swap for a SBC and the power steering pump
> > (Saginaw) is in the way. I can mount it on the passenger side, but
> > that means turning the short water pump upside down. Can the water
> > pump be mounted upside down? Anything special about doing it that way?
> >
> > Thanks for the help.
> >
> > Dave
> >
>
> 1)your lower rad hose inlet will be pointed to the driver side, so you
> might have a hard time hooking it up...
>
> 2)the heater hose connection that's normally on top would be pretty near
> impossible to use if you flipped it over.
>
> Is it not possible to keep the pump on the driver side? There are quite
> a few different sets of stock chevy brackets over the years, and as long
> as you can get the pulleys lined up, it doesn't really matter where the
> pump goes - on my race Camaro I had to make my own (cheesy looking but
> effective) bracket because nothing lined up with the pump I had.
>
> Ray

How long do you want the engine to last?

Normally the channels inside are designed for flow in a certain
direction. Reverse that and you will likely get water boils or air hot
spots and start burning things like valve seals, valves, etc....

The engines that 'are' reverse flow have special bleed circuits to keep
the air out of the heads as far as I know.

I think I would work on the mounts a little more. A few shims here and
there can line up lots of pulleys.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

Dave wrote:
>
> On the pump I have, the heater hose comes out the side, not the top, so
> that isn't an issue. The radiator hose will be pointed to the driver
> side and I can specify that the radiator have a driver side inlet.
>
> The bigger question is does it make a difference if the pump is upside
> down. Any holes to plug?
>
> ray wrote:
> > Dave wrote:
> > > I am doing an engine swap for a SBC and the power steering pump
> > > (Saginaw) is in the way. I can mount it on the passenger side, but
> > > that means turning the short water pump upside down. Can the water
> > > pump be mounted upside down? Anything special about doing it that way?
> > >
> > > Thanks for the help.
> > >
> > > Dave
> > >
> >
> > 1)your lower rad hose inlet will be pointed to the driver side, so you
> > might have a hard time hooking it up...
> >
> > 2)the heater hose connection that's normally on top would be pretty near
> > impossible to use if you flipped it over.
> >
> > Is it not possible to keep the pump on the driver side? There are quite
> > a few different sets of stock chevy brackets over the years, and as long
> > as you can get the pulleys lined up, it doesn't really matter where the
> > pump goes - on my race Camaro I had to make my own (cheesy looking but
> > effective) bracket because nothing lined up with the pump I had.
> >
> > Ray

Mike Romain wrote:
>
> How long do you want the engine to last?
>
> Normally the channels inside are designed for flow in a certain
> direction. Reverse that and you will likely get water boils or air hot
> spots and start burning things like valve seals, valves, etc....
>
> The engines that 'are' reverse flow have special bleed circuits to keep
> the air out of the heads as far as I know.

Turning the pump over isn't going to reverse the flow - the pulley will
still turn the same direction. Even if it did reverse the rotation
direction it wouldn't reverse the flow since this is a centrifugal pump.
although, running it with the rotation backwards will make it pump much
less efficiently.

-jim


>
> I think I would work on the mounts a little more. A few shims here and
> there can line up lots of pulleys.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> Dave wrote:
> >
> > On the pump I have, the heater hose comes out the side, not the top, so
> > that isn't an issue. The radiator hose will be pointed to the driver
> > side and I can specify that the radiator have a driver side inlet.
> >
> > The bigger question is does it make a difference if the pump is upside
> > down. Any holes to plug?
> >
> > ray wrote:
> > > Dave wrote:
> > > > I am doing an engine swap for a SBC and the power steering pump
> > > > (Saginaw) is in the way. I can mount it on the passenger side, but
> > > > that means turning the short water pump upside down. Can the water
> > > > pump be mounted upside down? Anything special about doing it that way?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for the help.
> > > >
> > > > Dave
> > > >
> > >
> > > 1)your lower rad hose inlet will be pointed to the driver side, so you
> > > might have a hard time hooking it up...
> > >
> > > 2)the heater hose connection that's normally on top would be pretty near
> > > impossible to use if you flipped it over.
> > >
> > > Is it not possible to keep the pump on the driver side? There are quite
> > > a few different sets of stock chevy brackets over the years, and as long
> > > as you can get the pulleys lined up, it doesn't really matter where the
> > > pump goes - on my race Camaro I had to make my own (cheesy looking but
> > > effective) bracket because nothing lined up with the pump I had.
> > >
> > > Ray

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Mike Romain wrote:
> How long do you want the engine to last?
>
> Normally the channels inside are designed for flow in a certain
> direction. Reverse that and you will likely get water boils or air hot
> spots and start burning things like valve seals, valves, etc....
>
> The engines that 'are' reverse flow have special bleed circuits to keep
> the air out of the heads as far as I know.
>
> I think I would work on the mounts a little more. A few shims here and
> there can line up lots of pulleys.
>

the sbc chevy water pump is symmetrical on the inside short of the
"suction" (lower rad hose) part. There are two holes in the block where
water exits the pump and if you flip the pump over it doesn't look like
it would make a lick of difference.

I still don't think flipping it would work for the OP, because the bolt
hole he's looking for on the bottom for the ps bracket will now be on
the top left, but I can't see any internal problems with the pump
working upside down.


http://static.summitracing.com/globa...-g1662-l_w.jpg
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/waterpumps.html

I was thinking the two armed pump, I didn't think the other pump's bolts
or passages were symmetrical so it could be flipped???

Mike

jim wrote:
>
> Mike Romain wrote:
> >
> > How long do you want the engine to last?
> >
> > Normally the channels inside are designed for flow in a certain
> > direction. Reverse that and you will likely get water boils or air hot
> > spots and start burning things like valve seals, valves, etc....
> >
> > The engines that 'are' reverse flow have special bleed circuits to keep
> > the air out of the heads as far as I know.
>
> Turning the pump over isn't going to reverse the flow - the pulley will
> still turn the same direction. Even if it did reverse the rotation
> direction it wouldn't reverse the flow since this is a centrifugal pump.
> although, running it with the rotation backwards will make it pump much
> less efficiently.
>
> -jim
>
> >
> > I think I would work on the mounts a little more. A few shims here and
> > there can line up lots of pulleys.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> >
> > Dave wrote:
> > >
> > > On the pump I have, the heater hose comes out the side, not the top, so
> > > that isn't an issue. The radiator hose will be pointed to the driver
> > > side and I can specify that the radiator have a driver side inlet.
> > >
> > > The bigger question is does it make a difference if the pump is upside
> > > down. Any holes to plug?
> > >
> > > ray wrote:
> > > > Dave wrote:
> > > > > I am doing an engine swap for a SBC and the power steering pump
> > > > > (Saginaw) is in the way. I can mount it on the passenger side, but
> > > > > that means turning the short water pump upside down. Can the water
> > > > > pump be mounted upside down? Anything special about doing it that way?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks for the help.
> > > > >
> > > > > Dave
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > 1)your lower rad hose inlet will be pointed to the driver side, so you
> > > > might have a hard time hooking it up...
> > > >
> > > > 2)the heater hose connection that's normally on top would be pretty near
> > > > impossible to use if you flipped it over.
> > > >
> > > > Is it not possible to keep the pump on the driver side? There are quite
> > > > a few different sets of stock chevy brackets over the years, and as long
> > > > as you can get the pulleys lined up, it doesn't really matter where the
> > > > pump goes - on my race Camaro I had to make my own (cheesy looking but
> > > > effective) bracket because nothing lined up with the pump I had.
> > > >
> > > > Ray
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
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ray wrote:
>
> Mike Romain wrote:
> > How long do you want the engine to last?
> >
> > Normally the channels inside are designed for flow in a certain
> > direction. Reverse that and you will likely get water boils or air hot
> > spots and start burning things like valve seals, valves, etc....
> >
> > The engines that 'are' reverse flow have special bleed circuits to keep
> > the air out of the heads as far as I know.
> >
> > I think I would work on the mounts a little more. A few shims here and
> > there can line up lots of pulleys.
> >
>
> the sbc chevy water pump is symmetrical on the inside short of the
> "suction" (lower rad hose) part. There are two holes in the block where
> water exits the pump and if you flip the pump over it doesn't look like
> it would make a lick of difference.
>
> I still don't think flipping it would work for the OP, because the bolt
> hole he's looking for on the bottom for the ps bracket will now be on
> the top left, but I can't see any internal problems with the pump
> working upside down.
>
> http://static.summitracing.com/globa...-g1662-l_w.jpg
> http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/waterpumps.html

There still is a bypass circuit to deal with isn't there? Lack of that
might require a custom thermostat.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

Mike Romain wrote:
>
> I was thinking the two armed pump, I didn't think the other pump's bolts
> or passages were symmetrical so it could be flipped???
>

I'm not completely sure of the symmetry or whether it can be made to fit
if it's flipped 180° (I wasn't commenting on that question), but if you
can flip it the pulley will still end up rotating the same direction.
And besides regardless of the rotation direction the fluid will still
flow in the same port and out the same ports. You can't change that
without redesigning the pump outer casting. If you try to run it
backwards it will just greatly reduce the amount of flow you get for a
given speed. But anyway, to change the rotation direction you would have
to flip it so the output ports faced the radiator, so I don't think that
is being contemplated.

-jim



> Mike
>
> jim wrote:
> >
> > Mike Romain wrote:
> > >
> > > How long do you want the engine to last?
> > >
> > > Normally the channels inside are designed for flow in a certain
> > > direction. Reverse that and you will likely get water boils or air hot
> > > spots and start burning things like valve seals, valves, etc....
> > >
> > > The engines that 'are' reverse flow have special bleed circuits to keep
> > > the air out of the heads as far as I know.
> >
> > Turning the pump over isn't going to reverse the flow - the pulley will
> > still turn the same direction. Even if it did reverse the rotation
> > direction it wouldn't reverse the flow since this is a centrifugal pump.
> > although, running it with the rotation backwards will make it pump much
> > less efficiently.
> >
> > -jim
> >
> > >
> > > I think I would work on the mounts a little more. A few shims here and
> > > there can line up lots of pulleys.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > > Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> > > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> > >
> > > Dave wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On the pump I have, the heater hose comes out the side, not the top, so
> > > > that isn't an issue. The radiator hose will be pointed to the driver
> > > > side and I can specify that the radiator have a driver side inlet.
> > > >
> > > > The bigger question is does it make a difference if the pump is upside
> > > > down. Any holes to plug?
> > > >
> > > > ray wrote:
> > > > > Dave wrote:
> > > > > > I am doing an engine swap for a SBC and the power steering pump
> > > > > > (Saginaw) is in the way. I can mount it on the passenger side, but
> > > > > > that means turning the short water pump upside down. Can the water
> > > > > > pump be mounted upside down? Anything special about doing it that way?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks for the help.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Dave
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 1)your lower rad hose inlet will be pointed to the driver side, so you
> > > > > might have a hard time hooking it up...
> > > > >
> > > > > 2)the heater hose connection that's normally on top would be pretty near
> > > > > impossible to use if you flipped it over.
> > > > >
> > > > > Is it not possible to keep the pump on the driver side? There are quite
> > > > > a few different sets of stock chevy brackets over the years, and as long
> > > > > as you can get the pulleys lined up, it doesn't really matter where the
> > > > > pump goes - on my race Camaro I had to make my own (cheesy looking but
> > > > > effective) bracket because nothing lined up with the pump I had.
> > > > >
> > > > > Ray
> >
> > ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
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