This Is Ridiculous!!! Isn't It???

On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 11:02:55 -0400, "ThaDriver"
> wrote:

>What's ridiculous is that after building cars for so many decades, chevy
>STILL can't make the plugs accessable to change!!!!
>Too many engineers & computers, not enough mechanics designing cars these
>days!
>My 2 cents...
>~ Paul
==========================
Paul you are DEAD wrong.... The DESIGNERS are at fault....

When a car comes off the drawing boards in the styling studios the
engineers are then given the task of "fitting" everything inside the
Space available......

My neighbor retired a few years ago (Factory Truck Rep for GM) and we
have had this discussuion on and off for the last 30 years...as a
group "engineers" are practical people..but they are out ranked by
designers who work for GOD... or the current Harley Earle ..

A "sweet design" from an engineering standpoint just may just not make
it on the showroom floor...

Designers create Engineers just do what thay have to do...
and the mechanics just bust their knuckles ...we just pay...

Bob G.


I

>Paul you are DEAD wrong.... The DESIGNERS are at fault....
Bob G.
*******
Yeah of course that's right (& actually more like what I meant :-). The
engineers have to make everything fit under the body, & make all the doors
open & the wheels go round & round. And they have to do that within
critical parameters & government mandates. But some it still falls on
their shoulders for making things like the spark plugs (of *all* things)
inaccesable.
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Giggle Cream - it makes dessert *funny*!

>Paul you are DEAD wrong.... The DESIGNERS are at fault....
Bob G.
*******
Yeah of course that's right (& actually more like what I meant :-). The
engineers have to make everything fit under the body, & make all the doors
open & the wheels go round & round. And they have to do that within
critical parameters & government mandates. But some it still falls on
their shoulders for making things like the spark plugs (of *all* things)
inaccesable.
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Giggle Cream - it makes dessert *funny*!

started a controversy when he said... :

> the "BOOK" is called the flat rate "GUIDE" and it is just that, a
> guide. Flat rate for the wires is 2 hours, and 1.6 hours for the
> plugs. most shops will cut you a break on the time because you already
> have the wires off of the plugs to change them. Most shops will not
> give you a break on you doing half of the job. The labor times above
> come from Mitchell and Shop Key. We would have charged you
> approximately 3.3 hours for the job, or 226.05 at our labor rate. this
> does not include any diagnostic charge, which would have been 1 hour .
> so it does look like they did give you a break, but they did not cut
> the labor rate in 1/2

That doesn't add up either, I was charged $425. According to you: $226 +
1 hour diagnostic($89) doesn't come up to $425.

Thanks for the input,
--
Robotron Tom *remove nospam to email*
See the Flashback Arcade at: http:// www.arcadeguy.net

Standing for right when it is unpopular is a true test of moral
character.
-M. Smith

started a controversy when he said... :

> the "BOOK" is called the flat rate "GUIDE" and it is just that, a
> guide. Flat rate for the wires is 2 hours, and 1.6 hours for the
> plugs. most shops will cut you a break on the time because you already
> have the wires off of the plugs to change them. Most shops will not
> give you a break on you doing half of the job. The labor times above
> come from Mitchell and Shop Key. We would have charged you
> approximately 3.3 hours for the job, or 226.05 at our labor rate. this
> does not include any diagnostic charge, which would have been 1 hour .
> so it does look like they did give you a break, but they did not cut
> the labor rate in 1/2

That doesn't add up either, I was charged $425. According to you: $226 +
1 hour diagnostic($89) doesn't come up to $425.

Thanks for the input,
--
Robotron Tom *remove nospam to email*
See the Flashback Arcade at: http:// www.arcadeguy.net

Standing for right when it is unpopular is a true test of moral
character.
-M. Smith

our diagnostic charge is not $89, it is 68.50. so 3.3 hours for the
work still is 226.05 + one hour for diagnostic at 68.50 an hour.
I am just telling you what we would have charged. your drive out here
at my shop would have been $294.55, that is 226.05 +68.50.

On 29 Sep 2004 00:20:43 GMT, Robotron Tom > wrote:

> started a controversy when he said... :
>
>> the "BOOK" is called the flat rate "GUIDE" and it is just that, a
>> guide. Flat rate for the wires is 2 hours, and 1.6 hours for the
>> plugs. most shops will cut you a break on the time because you already
>> have the wires off of the plugs to change them. Most shops will not
>> give you a break on you doing half of the job. The labor times above
>> come from Mitchell and Shop Key. We would have charged you
>> approximately 3.3 hours for the job, or 226.05 at our labor rate. this
>> does not include any diagnostic charge, which would have been 1 hour .
>> so it does look like they did give you a break, but they did not cut
>> the labor rate in 1/2
>
>That doesn't add up either, I was charged $425. According to you: $226 +
>1 hour diagnostic($89) doesn't come up to $425.
>
>Thanks for the input,

our diagnostic charge is not $89, it is 68.50. so 3.3 hours for the
work still is 226.05 + one hour for diagnostic at 68.50 an hour.
I am just telling you what we would have charged. your drive out here
at my shop would have been $294.55, that is 226.05 +68.50.

On 29 Sep 2004 00:20:43 GMT, Robotron Tom > wrote:

> started a controversy when he said... :
>
>> the "BOOK" is called the flat rate "GUIDE" and it is just that, a
>> guide. Flat rate for the wires is 2 hours, and 1.6 hours for the
>> plugs. most shops will cut you a break on the time because you already
>> have the wires off of the plugs to change them. Most shops will not
>> give you a break on you doing half of the job. The labor times above
>> come from Mitchell and Shop Key. We would have charged you
>> approximately 3.3 hours for the job, or 226.05 at our labor rate. this
>> does not include any diagnostic charge, which would have been 1 hour .
>> so it does look like they did give you a break, but they did not cut
>> the labor rate in 1/2
>
>That doesn't add up either, I was charged $425. According to you: $226 +
>1 hour diagnostic($89) doesn't come up to $425.
>
>Thanks for the input,

Here's a reason I refuse to take my car to a repair shop. These guys are all
lower than pond slime with that damned "book". I'd gladly pay hourly rate
for the actual time worked on. Also, at $90/hour I know they're maybe paying
the guy doing the work , maybe, $20/hout. They have $70/hour in overhead.
Right...rip off city.

But take a look at the "book". Different times depending on if it is
warranty or non-warranty.

-GeorgeC 92 LT-1 Red/Red Awstin, TX

"Robotron Tom" > wrote in message
...
> I had a miss throughout the RPM range and MPG dropped. I started by
> replacing the coil: no change. I purchased new OEM plug wires and Bosch
> Platinum +4 plugs and started installing them. Huge pain to do, I must
> admit. I got the 4 pass side wires on and new plugs in #2 and #4
> cylinders: no change. Dropped it at the nearby dealership this morning
> and they found #1 plug was dead. They installed the remaining parts(4
> wires and 6 plugs) for me and car runs great now.
>
> The bill: $425!!!!
> Did I get a hosing on this one?
>
> The mechanic was telling me he cut the labor in half because I had
> already done most of one side. So...how did I get charged for 3 hours
> labor for a tune-up if he cut the labor in half? A tune-up on a 93
> Corvette is 6 hours??? There was a 1 hour charge for diagnostic($89), so
> that made it 4 hours total labor.
>
> Should I complain or just be happy it runs right again?
>
> Thanks,
> --
> Robotron Tom *remove nospam to email*
> See the Flashback Arcade at: http:// www.arcadeguy.net
>
> Standing for right when it is unpopular is a true test of moral
> character.
> -M. Smith

Here's a reason I refuse to take my car to a repair shop. These guys are all
lower than pond slime with that damned "book". I'd gladly pay hourly rate
for the actual time worked on. Also, at $90/hour I know they're maybe paying
the guy doing the work , maybe, $20/hout. They have $70/hour in overhead.
Right...rip off city.

But take a look at the "book". Different times depending on if it is
warranty or non-warranty.

-GeorgeC 92 LT-1 Red/Red Awstin, TX

"Robotron Tom" > wrote in message
...
> I had a miss throughout the RPM range and MPG dropped. I started by
> replacing the coil: no change. I purchased new OEM plug wires and Bosch
> Platinum +4 plugs and started installing them. Huge pain to do, I must
> admit. I got the 4 pass side wires on and new plugs in #2 and #4
> cylinders: no change. Dropped it at the nearby dealership this morning
> and they found #1 plug was dead. They installed the remaining parts(4
> wires and 6 plugs) for me and car runs great now.
>
> The bill: $425!!!!
> Did I get a hosing on this one?
>
> The mechanic was telling me he cut the labor in half because I had
> already done most of one side. So...how did I get charged for 3 hours
> labor for a tune-up if he cut the labor in half? A tune-up on a 93
> Corvette is 6 hours??? There was a 1 hour charge for diagnostic($89), so
> that made it 4 hours total labor.
>
> Should I complain or just be happy it runs right again?
>
> Thanks,
> --
> Robotron Tom *remove nospam to email*
> See the Flashback Arcade at: http:// www.arcadeguy.net
>
> Standing for right when it is unpopular is a true test of moral
> character.
> -M. Smith

'nuther thought.

If you attack plugs/wires patiently on an LT-1 it is messy, your arm needs a
universal halfway between elbow and wrist, but after taking off the front
tires, and plastic "wheel well" and start at it with teh proper tools it was
a 5 hour job for me (I fly a desk and spreadsheets normally). A good chunk
of that time was spend finding the right tool, adapter, universal, try this
try that, etc. Maybe an hour burned that way, So, 4 hours for a rookie. The
dealer should be better than that.

From a reference on this:
Tune-up 3.5 hours, skill level "B" (whatever that means)