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What will it take to go back?



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 24th 05, 03:10 AM
Dave Henrie
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Default What will it take to go back?

If you have paid attention lately, you have probably notice there has
been an enormous ground swell against First-Racing(now called iRacing.)
They have played the bully in restricting previously allowed mods in the
Nr2k3 community. I know of many mod groups that have been working with
Papy for 10 years that have dumped them because of the 'reclaiming of
copyright' legal manuevers.

So soon, we are led to beleive, rFactor will be released. A mod friendly
big advancement from prior ISI sims. I am going to guess that even with
all the improvements from the multiplayer demo, that rF will not quite rise
to the level of previous Papyrus titles when examining online features.

Now my question. Even if rFactor is the 'next great sim', what will it
take for the faithful to go back to iRacing? What feature? What
advancement? What are you looking for in a Next Gen Sim? What will jump
out and MAKE you go running back home?

and Part 2..

What could ISI do to allow you to never want to return to Papy-style
sims? What do they need to complete your racing requirements?


dave henrie
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  #2  
Old July 24th 05, 12:08 PM
Darus
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I will seriously consider both titles and may end up purchasing both. I
am not a "modder" (or hacker, as iRacing has called them), but an end
user of the products that these ppl. create. In this sense, DK & Crew
have done a lot of damage to their reputation. The question is, who are
they targeting with their upcoming project? As is their way, secrecy is
the name of the game. Some say it is the same GPL/NRxxxx crowd (who now
despise them for a large part) and others say it will be hard core,
real life racers who may never have heard of NRxxxx or GPL. Which group
would be larger? Tough call if you ask me. Do real life racers want to
spend more money to buy a top end computer with all the needed goodies
(wheels,pedals,cpu,gfx card, speakers, etc.) on top of maintaining and
racing a real car? Will the Papy faithful (and not so faithful at this
point) be willing to overlook the past misdeeds? Personally, I am not
so foolish to say that I will not look at what iRacing puts out and may
even buy it. I like to sim race, simple as that. If their products
interests me and the reviews from fellow simmers (not magazines or
press releases) are good, then I'll probably jump in.

As for ISI, they need to continue to build on and surpass everything
that Papy did with NR2003. NR2003 is <the> benchmark right now for sim
racing and it's 2.5 yrs. old. There is no other sim racing title right
now that I use more than NR2003. I have RBR, GPL, NSR(ugh), F1C. They
can use whatever form of racing they choose, but it simply needs to be
as good as NR2003 is right now, including the MP and especially the
interface. A solid PC version of a menu system is essential, no
forward/back screens, no awkward calibration systems, no need to spend
hours tweaking a .plr file to activate various options. The previous
generation gfx needs to be overhauled to be more photorealistic.

  #3  
Old July 24th 05, 04:27 PM
Steve Blankenship
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"Dave Henrie" > wrote in message
. 97.136...
> If you have paid attention lately, you have probably notice there has
> been an enormous ground swell against First-Racing(now called iRacing.)
> They have played the bully in restricting previously allowed mods in the
> Nr2k3 community. I know of many mod groups that have been working with
> Papy for 10 years that have dumped them because of the 'reclaiming of
> copyright' legal manuevers.
>
> So soon, we are led to beleive, rFactor will be released. A mod

friendly
> big advancement from prior ISI sims. I am going to guess that even with
> all the improvements from the multiplayer demo, that rF will not quite

rise
> to the level of previous Papyrus titles when examining online features.
>
> Now my question. Even if rFactor is the 'next great sim', what will it
> take for the faithful to go back to iRacing? What feature? What
> advancement? What are you looking for in a Next Gen Sim? What will jump
> out and MAKE you go running back home?
>
> and Part 2..
>
> What could ISI do to allow you to never want to return to Papy-style
> sims? What do they need to complete your racing requirements?
>


Aside from the brouhaha over getting the NR2003 code rights back under wrap,
the future for iRacing/rFactor isn't that much different from the past with
Sierra-Papyrus/EA-ISI. Papy were always rather protective of their product,
while ISI, from SCGT on, were more mod-friendly. I have no issue with
someone protecting the fruits of their labor and investment (& even making a
buck), so the First/iRacing fuss doesn't bother me one whit. I do
sympathize with some of the guys who got caught out during the transition
phase though; DK & Co. could probably have handled that better as for this
group of folks. But in the larger market sense, what our little community
of sim-heads thinks doesn't really matter much.

It's just two groups hitting the market from different angles, trying to
define the niche that will best work for them. And only when they do will
we enjoy the benefits of a long pipeline of first-tier product. And product
is what it comes down to in the end, as ever. Whoever delivers the best
product, or at least the best product at the price level the market's
willing to pay, will dominate. In the past it was Papy. Future will tell.
IMHO, mods are not that big an issue; the biggest question is how pay to
play will be rolled out and whether that model will fly in the face of an
established free-online-racing precedent.

As to your questions about what's looked for in a racing sim; for me it's
realism in physics, graphics and sound; depth, polish and reliability in
game design, interface and function; quality multiplayer and replay
capability. There are other sims out that do bits and pieces well, but no
one has yet put the total package together as well as Papy did. All any sim
developer has to do to succeed is DELIVER. Simple. Just not easy.

SB


  #4  
Old July 24th 05, 05:15 PM
Tony Rickard
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Default

Steve Blankenship wrote:

> Aside from the brouhaha over getting the NR2003 code rights back under wrap,
> the future for iRacing/rFactor isn't that much different from the past with
> Sierra-Papyrus/EA-ISI. Papy were always rather protective of their product,
> while ISI, from SCGT on, were more mod-friendly. I have no issue with
> someone protecting the fruits of their labor and investment (& even making a
> buck), so the First/iRacing fuss doesn't bother me one whit. I do
> sympathize with some of the guys who got caught out during the transition
> phase though; DK & Co. could probably have handled that better as for this
> group of folks. But in the larger market sense, what our little community
> of sim-heads thinks doesn't really matter much.
>
> It's just two groups hitting the market from different angles, trying to
> define the niche that will best work for them. And only when they do will
> we enjoy the benefits of a long pipeline of first-tier product. And product
> is what it comes down to in the end, as ever. Whoever delivers the best
> product, or at least the best product at the price level the market's
> willing to pay, will dominate. In the past it was Papy. Future will tell.
> IMHO, mods are not that big an issue; the biggest question is how pay to
> play will be rolled out and whether that model will fly in the face of an
> established free-online-racing precedent.
>
> As to your questions about what's looked for in a racing sim; for me it's
> realism in physics, graphics and sound; depth, polish and reliability in
> game design, interface and function; quality multiplayer and replay
> capability. There are other sims out that do bits and pieces well, but no
> one has yet put the total package together as well as Papy did. All any sim
> developer has to do to succeed is DELIVER. Simple. Just not easy.


What he said! I agree entirely.

Cheers
Tony
  #5  
Old July 26th 05, 03:24 PM
Byron Forbes
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Default


"Steve Blankenship" > wrote in message
...
> All any sim
> developer has to do to succeed is DELIVER. Simple. Just not easy.
>


If the coders can sell the idea of quality product to the money people
(so far Papyrus are the only outfit to succeed) then we get a good product.
Probably more a matter of insisting on this rather than trying to sell it.

Some ****wit in a suit, who knows **** all about anything, takes a quick
peek and thinks "oh man, that's ready for the shelves for sure", and then on
the shelves the alpha **** goes. No doubt some of the coders get money
anxious along the way too.


  #6  
Old July 29th 05, 12:44 AM
btgoss
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Default

Well I really don't think that it is going to take much to win back our
hearts and minds (although I wish that was not the case.)
If iRacing can produce a game that is an advancement over NR2K3, then
most people will eventually buy into it, or be left on the side. I wish
this wasn't going to happen, since this whole mess with the modders has
really cast a dark shadow across anything that iRacing might produce.
But we are consumers, and we accept a certain amount of grief as part
of life. I mean how many people swore never to return to baseball
(American obviously) after the last strike, and now they are back.
Watch how fast people who swore off NHL hockey come back, we are a
fickle lot, and it is embarassing.
But strength of convictions will only take a consumer so far, and that
is the real shame of this iRacing thing, they have known that from the
beginning, and we never saw it coming.

  #7  
Old July 29th 05, 02:46 PM
Byron Forbes
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Posts: n/a
Default


"btgoss" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Well I really don't think that it is going to take much to win back our
> hearts and minds (although I wish that was not the case.)
> If iRacing can produce a game that is an advancement over NR2K3, then
> most people will eventually buy into it, or be left on the side. I wish
> this wasn't going to happen, since this whole mess with the modders has
> really cast a dark shadow across anything that iRacing might produce.
> But we are consumers, and we accept a certain amount of grief as part
> of life. I mean how many people swore never to return to baseball
> (American obviously) after the last strike, and now they are back.
> Watch how fast people who swore off NHL hockey come back, we are a
> fickle lot, and it is embarassing.
> But strength of convictions will only take a consumer so far, and that
> is the real shame of this iRacing thing, they have known that from the
> beginning, and we never saw it coming.
>


I just hope that iRacing are so confident that their new stuff will be
so irresistible that the **** they're going on with presently won't matter.
I wonder when we will actually hear something about the release date of
something rather than the next chapter in the modder war saga?

<sitting still, staring blankly at the monotor, twiddling thumbs>


  #8  
Old August 2nd 05, 08:54 PM
jason moyer
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Default

Dave Henrie wrote:
> A mod friendly
> big advancement from prior ISI sims.


Isn't that what GTR was? Er, I mean F1 Challenge...no, F1 2002...wait,
no, F1 2001...or was it F1 2000CS...damn it I can't remember...

 




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