'88 Civic starting problem

Matt Ion > wrote in
news:yjHGg.440800$iF6.195632@pd7tw2no:

> Jim Yanik wrote:
>
>> I put a set of Bosch Platinum-2 plugs in my 94 GSR at ~57,000mi,and
>> it starts and runs fine.It's been about 2 months now.
>> The old plugs looked OK.
>>
>> How can new spark plugs be "bunk"?
>> Were those the plugs that were in there when he acquired the car?
>> Maybe old plugs,or gaps boogered? Maybe grease on the insulator?
>
> They were the plugs that were already in the original engine, which
> HAD been running before we took it out. They were nice and clean and
> like I said, "bench-tested" fine. The plugs that came in the
> replacement engine were extremely fouled, which is why we swapped them
> out in the first place.
>

So,the "new" plugs got fouled,too. Not the plugs fault.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

Jim Yanik wrote:
> Grumpy AuContraire > wrote in
> :
>
>
>>
>>Matt Ion wrote:
>>
>>>TeGGeR® wrote:
>>>
>>>>Matt Ion > wrote in
>>>>news:mJaGg.440318$IK3.223342@pd7tw1no:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>TeGGeR® wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
wrote in
oglegroups.com:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Okay, quick update... new fuel pump in, took care of the voltage
>>>>>>>drop problem... now we're getting an ALMOST-start. It cranks, it
>>>>>>>tries to catch, it won't quite take off.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>ECU gives a code 16 ("Fuel Injector System: defective circuit or
>>>>>>>unplugged / defective fuel injector".)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Wanna take a second look at that Main Relay?
>>>>>
>>>>>Already did. All working fine. Came out of another working Civic,
>>>>>in fact.
>>>>>
>>>>>Like I said, the injectors ARE working, they ARE spraying fuel (at
>>>>>least, the main injector is).
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>So you've for sure got spark, for sure the igniton timing is
>>>>correct, and for sure the ECU is driving the injectors correctly
>>>>now?
>>>
>>>Heheheh, funny story...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Does the car start with a shot of ether?
>>>
>>>Wanted to try that, but buddy didn't have any in the shop, and at
>>>that point we didn't have time to go pick some up.
>>>
>>>
>>>>A code 16 sometimes does actually mean a defective injector.
>>>
>>>That's what I figured, but they seemed to bench-test fine.
>>>
>>>Anyway... buddy just called, he got it going: new plugs and a fresh
>>>battery and it fired right up. Apparently the Bosch Platinums that
>>>came in the thing were bunk, despite showing good soild spark when
>>>tested outside the engine(???).
>>>
>>>Would be interesting to see if the ECU is still giving an error code.
>>> I'm wondering if it might have been stored from when the bad fuel
>>>pump was still in; I can see how the pump dragging down the voltage
>>>could affect injector operation, since all three are on the same
>>>circuit off the main relay, and the ECU might read the lack of input
>>>signal from the injectors as a "bad" unit(s). Or it may have even
>>>stored that code from when we tested the injector wiring with them
>>>disconnected? How long does the ECU hold codes?
>>>
>>>So, another mystery solved... once again, I thank you all for your
>>>assistance, especially the masterful TeGGeR
>>
>>
>>
>>So, once again Bosch does it again.
>>
>>JT
>
>
> I put a set of Bosch Platinum-2 plugs in my 94 GSR at ~57,000mi,and it
> starts and runs fine.It's been about 2 months now.
> The old plugs looked OK.

I've been running Platinum 2's in my '87 Accord for over a year now without a
problem of a need for a cleaning - last time I checked them, they still looked
near-new. *shrug*

TeGGeR® wrote:
> hydro101 > wrote in
> :
>
>
>>Hey !
>>you guys are pretty good !
>>:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
>>
>>
>
>
>
> How many thumbs have you got?


Is his address @chernobyl.com?

"Matt Ion" > wrote in message
news:5JRGg.443478$iF6.238924@pd7tw2no...
> Jim Yanik wrote:
>>
>> I put a set of Bosch Platinum-2 plugs in my 94 GSR at ~57,000mi,and it
>> starts and runs fine.It's been about 2 months now.
>> The old plugs looked OK.
>
> I've been running Platinum 2's in my '87 Accord for over a year now
> without a problem of a need for a cleaning - last time I checked them,
> they still looked near-new. *shrug*
>

I used Bosch Platinums in an '84 Nissan 300 ZX I had, and they worked great.
Good thing, too, because plug access was the pits. I tried the same style in
our '85 turbo Volvo (against the recommendations of thre Volvo gurus) and it
worked for a few months before the engine began to misfire. I removed the
plugs and saw there were only holes where there had been center electrodes
before. Huh.

Mike

Jim Yanik wrote:
> Grumpy AuContraire > wrote in
> :
>
>>
>> Matt Ion wrote:
>>> TeGGeR® wrote:
>>>> Matt Ion > wrote in
>>>> news:mJaGg.440318$IK3.223342@pd7tw1no:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> TeGGeR® wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> wrote in
>>>>>> oups.com:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Okay, quick update... new fuel pump in, took care of the voltage
>>>>>>> drop problem... now we're getting an ALMOST-start. It cranks, it
>>>>>>> tries to catch, it won't quite take off.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ECU gives a code 16 ("Fuel Injector System: defective circuit or
>>>>>>> unplugged / defective fuel injector".)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wanna take a second look at that Main Relay?
>>>>> Already did. All working fine. Came out of another working Civic,
>>>>> in fact.
>>>>>
>>>>> Like I said, the injectors ARE working, they ARE spraying fuel (at
>>>>> least, the main injector is).
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So you've for sure got spark, for sure the igniton timing is
>>>> correct, and for sure the ECU is driving the injectors correctly
>>>> now?
>>> Heheheh, funny story...
>>>
>>>> Does the car start with a shot of ether?
>>> Wanted to try that, but buddy didn't have any in the shop, and at
>>> that point we didn't have time to go pick some up.
>>>
>>>> A code 16 sometimes does actually mean a defective injector.
>>> That's what I figured, but they seemed to bench-test fine.
>>>
>>> Anyway... buddy just called, he got it going: new plugs and a fresh
>>> battery and it fired right up. Apparently the Bosch Platinums that
>>> came in the thing were bunk, despite showing good soild spark when
>>> tested outside the engine(???).
>>>
>>> Would be interesting to see if the ECU is still giving an error code.
>>> I'm wondering if it might have been stored from when the bad fuel
>>> pump was still in; I can see how the pump dragging down the voltage
>>> could affect injector operation, since all three are on the same
>>> circuit off the main relay, and the ECU might read the lack of input
>>> signal from the injectors as a "bad" unit(s). Or it may have even
>>> stored that code from when we tested the injector wiring with them
>>> disconnected? How long does the ECU hold codes?
>>>
>>> So, another mystery solved... once again, I thank you all for your
>>> assistance, especially the masterful TeGGeR
>>
>>
>> So, once again Bosch does it again.
>>
>> JT
>
> I put a set of Bosch Platinum-2 plugs in my 94 GSR at ~57,000mi,and it
> starts and runs fine.It's been about 2 months now.
> The old plugs looked OK.
>
> How can new spark plugs be "bunk"?
> Were those the plugs that were in there when he acquired the car?
> Maybe old plugs,or gaps boogered? Maybe grease on the insulator?
>
the problem i've had with bosch, repeatedly, is that one day they work
fine, the next, the car won't start. you spend ages messing about
trying to get the things to work, but they won't. although widely
hated, i've had better luck with champion than bosch, even though
construction quality on bosch appears better.

ngk are by far the best way to go. especially when you consider that
there's no price differential. they continue to fire even, when the
electrodes are melted to little blobs. amazing things. no idea why,
but that seems to be the way it goes.

jim beam wrote:
>
> Jim Yanik wrote:
> > Grumpy AuContraire > wrote in
> > :
> >
> >>
> >> Matt Ion wrote:
> >>> TeGGeR® wrote:
> >>>> Matt Ion > wrote in
> >>>> news:mJaGg.440318$IK3.223342@pd7tw1no:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> TeGGeR® wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> wrote in
> >>>>>> oups.com:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Okay, quick update... new fuel pump in, took care of the voltage
> >>>>>>> drop problem... now we're getting an ALMOST-start. It cranks, it
> >>>>>>> tries to catch, it won't quite take off.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> ECU gives a code 16 ("Fuel Injector System: defective circuit or
> >>>>>>> unplugged / defective fuel injector".)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Wanna take a second look at that Main Relay?
> >>>>> Already did. All working fine. Came out of another working Civic,
> >>>>> in fact.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Like I said, the injectors ARE working, they ARE spraying fuel (at
> >>>>> least, the main injector is).
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> So you've for sure got spark, for sure the igniton timing is
> >>>> correct, and for sure the ECU is driving the injectors correctly
> >>>> now?
> >>> Heheheh, funny story...
> >>>
> >>>> Does the car start with a shot of ether?
> >>> Wanted to try that, but buddy didn't have any in the shop, and at
> >>> that point we didn't have time to go pick some up.
> >>>
> >>>> A code 16 sometimes does actually mean a defective injector.
> >>> That's what I figured, but they seemed to bench-test fine.
> >>>
> >>> Anyway... buddy just called, he got it going: new plugs and a fresh
> >>> battery and it fired right up. Apparently the Bosch Platinums that
> >>> came in the thing were bunk, despite showing good soild spark when
> >>> tested outside the engine(???).
> >>>
> >>> Would be interesting to see if the ECU is still giving an error code.
> >>> I'm wondering if it might have been stored from when the bad fuel
> >>> pump was still in; I can see how the pump dragging down the voltage
> >>> could affect injector operation, since all three are on the same
> >>> circuit off the main relay, and the ECU might read the lack of input
> >>> signal from the injectors as a "bad" unit(s). Or it may have even
> >>> stored that code from when we tested the injector wiring with them
> >>> disconnected? How long does the ECU hold codes?
> >>>
> >>> So, another mystery solved... once again, I thank you all for your
> >>> assistance, especially the masterful TeGGeR
> >>
> >>
> >> So, once again Bosch does it again.
> >>
> >> JT
> >
> > I put a set of Bosch Platinum-2 plugs in my 94 GSR at ~57,000mi,and it
> > starts and runs fine.It's been about 2 months now.
> > The old plugs looked OK.
> >
> > How can new spark plugs be "bunk"?
> > Were those the plugs that were in there when he acquired the car?
> > Maybe old plugs,or gaps boogered? Maybe grease on the insulator?
> >
> the problem i've had with bosch, repeatedly, is that one day they work
> fine, the next, the car won't start. you spend ages messing about
> trying to get the things to work, but they won't. although widely
> hated, i've had better luck with champion than bosch, even though
> construction quality on bosch appears better.
>
> ngk are by far the best way to go. especially when you consider that
> there's no price differential. they continue to fire even, when the
> electrodes are melted to little blobs. amazing things. no idea why,
> but that seems to be the way it goes.


Agreed.

I've found that once Bosch plugs get wet, forgetaboutit...

When I owned my first car, a 1940 Chevy back way back, Champions would
begin to break down after 5K miles especially when going up hills.
Family mechanic warned against Champions so switched to AC and no more problems.

Champions (and probably Bosch) are good to fill the sparkplug holes for
storage so that the mud dawbahs don't build nests...

JT

"Grumpy AuContraire" > wrote in message
...

> When I owned my first car, a 1940 Chevy back way back, Champions would
> begin to break down after 5K miles especially when going up hills.

That was my experience in the '70s - misfire under load after a few months.
I stopped using Champions and haven't seen fit to give them another chance.

Mike

Michael Pardee wrote:
>
> "Grumpy AuContraire" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > When I owned my first car, a 1940 Chevy back way back, Champions would
> > begin to break down after 5K miles especially when going up hills.
>
> That was my experience in the '70s - misfire under load after a few months.
> I stopped using Champions and haven't seen fit to give them another chance.
>
> Mike



Bravo!

JT