If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#11
|
|||
|
|||
'89 CRX starts then stalls
See the three online OEM parts dealers listed near the top
of http://home.earthlink.net/~honda.lioness/id9.html "samjones" > wrote > Could someone post a partnumber and suggested location to > order a main > relay for my 88 crx. > > > <<< > if the relay has not before been replaced, it's #1 > candidate. happens > to all civics/crx's this vintage. personally, i replace > the relay, > then > resolder the old one and toss it in the trunk as a spare. > hopefully, > it'll stay there unused for another 10+ years. >>>> > |
Ads |
#12
|
|||
|
|||
'89 CRX starts then stalls
"ThomasE" > wrote in
lkaboutautos.com: > Thanks Tegger. Yes, I did take some pictures but they may not be that > helpful as advice. I can send them to you though if you’re interested. Always. Just unmunge my address. I can add them to the Main Relay page. > I wish I had seen your pictures earlier. When I first tried to locate > the main relay based on the honda shop manual, I found some device > that looked like a relay right above the hood latch. The Honda technical drawings, while of excellent quality (which, being involved in technical illustration myself, is one reason I love Honda), still cannot accurately depict locations in 3D. > Thinking that > that was the main relay, I removed it, at which point I saw that it > had only 4 terminals so it did not match the honda manual description. > So then I started looking again and it took me at least 10” to just > see the tip of the relay from underneath the dashboard. > The car has now started 8 times without incident since the resoldering > so I hope that was it. > I hope so too. It's an annoying problem, and one that just about every EFI Honda ever built eventually suffers. -- Tegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ |
#13
|
|||
|
|||
Darn! Problem did not go away
Darn! Still problems
I guess resoldering the relay did not do it. Still exhibiting the same behavior this evening engine starts then after a second it stalls. Finally started on the 4th try. So what else can it be? Does the actual relay go bad often? That is, do the relay contacts fail or is it pretty much the soldering that fails. I think it is very unlikely that my new solder is bad in exactly the same way as the old one. My wife was the one who experienced the malfunction this time so I was not present to hear if at least the fuel pump was getting primed for 2 seconds when the ignition was turned on. I’m reluctant to blame the fuel pump because the fuel pump does obviously start at least for a short while with every starting attempt and that builds enough fuel pressure to get the engine going for a second or so. On the other hand if it is the relay why would it make contact initially and then fail? Perhaps, just perhaps, the ignition signal that tells the relay to close is stronger than the signal it is given by the ECU? That would explain it, ie. the ignition signal is strong enough to make the relay close with a good contact but then the let’s say weaker ECU signal fails to maintain the relay closed (or at least closed with enough pressure for a borderline relay contact to work) ?? I basically see 3 options: 1. Wait for the problem to reappear long enough that I can get a voltmeter hooked up to the fuel pump during the ignition cycle to do a relay vs fuel pump differential diagnosis. 2. Go buy main relay and change it 3. Go buy fuel pump and change it Any ideas? |
#14
|
|||
|
|||
Darn! Problem did not go away
ThomasE wrote:
> Darn! Still problems > > I guess resoldering the relay did not do it. Still exhibiting the same > behavior this evening engine starts then after a second it stalls. Finally > started on the 4th try. > > So what else can it be? > > Does the actual relay go bad often? That is, do the relay contacts fail or > is it pretty much the soldering that fails. I think it is very unlikely > that my new solder is bad in exactly the same way as the old one. My wife > was the one who experienced the malfunction this time so I was not present > to hear if at least the fuel pump was getting primed for 2 seconds when the > ignition was turned on. > > I’m reluctant to blame the fuel pump because the fuel pump does obviously > start at least for a short while with every starting attempt and that > builds enough fuel pressure to get the engine going for a second or so. On > the other hand if it is the relay why would it make contact initially and > then fail? Perhaps, just perhaps, the ignition signal that tells the relay > to close is stronger than the signal it is given by the ECU? That would > explain it, ie. the ignition signal is strong enough to make the relay > close with a good contact but then the let’s say weaker ECU signal fails > to maintain the relay closed (or at least closed with enough pressure for > a borderline relay contact to work) ?? > > I basically see 3 options: > 1. Wait for the problem to reappear long enough that I can get a voltmeter > hooked up to the fuel pump during the ignition cycle to do a relay vs fuel > pump differential diagnosis. > 2. Go buy main relay and change it > 3. Go buy fuel pump and change it > > Any ideas? > do you get a code? in my experience, the relay derived no-start condition is always accompanied by a code 16. |
#15
|
|||
|
|||
Darn! Problem did not go away
No codes now. My wife did not check for codes when it last happened
tonight. But from what I recall the '89 CRX would store a code 16 between starts until the code is cleared right? |
#16
|
|||
|
|||
Darn! Problem did not go away
ThomasE wrote:
> No codes now. My wife did not check for codes when it last happened > tonight. But from what I recall the '89 CRX would store a code 16 between > starts until the code is cleared right? > yes, it'll be there for at least 3 starts. regarding resoldering, i used a 60W hakko soldering iron with a large thermal inertia for mine because some parts of the relay are large, copper and suck heat faster than a normal low wattage electrical iron can pump it in. i'm not suggesting you didn't do a bad job when resoldering yours, but i /do/ suggest that it's hard to do a /good/ job! |
#17
|
|||
|
|||
Darn! Problem did not go away (main relay troubles?)
ThomasE wrote:
> Darn! Still problems > > I guess resoldering the relay did not do it. Still exhibiting the same > behavior this evening engine starts then after a second it stalls. Finally > started on the 4th try. > ----------------------------------- Honda recall a billion Ignition Switches about 8 years after yours went on the road. Might be a clue. Has it ever stalled while it was running, or only while starting? I diagnose a bad MAIN RELAY this way: Turn the switch to II. If you don't hear the fuel pump run for 3 seconds, smack the dash with your fist (or slam the driver's door) and if the relay runs, you know you've got the bad solder joints. Knowing you can smack the dash to make the fuel pump spin will also prevent you from being stranded at the 7-Eleven on a warm day. It's much simpler than filling the car with PARTY ICE to chill the relay (which would work, BTW). If your fuel pump is only running on position III, it's likely the switch, as I suggested a few days ago. Here's the Civic version of the recall: http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/tsb/civic/x02-031e.pdf 'Curly' |
#18
|
|||
|
|||
Darn! Problem did not go away (main relay troubles?)
motsco_ wrote:
> ThomasE wrote: >> Darn! Still problems >> >> I guess resoldering the relay did not do it. Still exhibiting the same >> behavior this evening engine starts then after a second it stalls. >> Finally >> started on the 4th try. > > ----------------------------------- > > Honda recall a billion Ignition Switches about 8 years after yours went > on the road. Might be a clue. > > Has it ever stalled while it was running, or only while starting? > > I diagnose a bad MAIN RELAY this way: Turn the switch to II. If you > don't hear the fuel pump run for 3 seconds, smack the dash with your > fist (or slam the driver's door) and if the relay runs, you know you've > got the bad solder joints. Knowing you can smack the dash to make the > fuel pump spin will also prevent you from being stranded at the 7-Eleven > on a warm day. It's much simpler than filling the car with PARTY ICE to > chill the relay (which would work, BTW). If your fuel pump is only > running on position III, it's likely the switch, as I suggested a few > days ago. > > Here's the Civic version of the recall: > > http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/tsb/civic/x02-031e.pdf > > 'Curly' -------------------------------- This (somewhat related) page about Civic wiring might help with your diagnosis, if your fusebox is at all similar: http://www.geocities.com/ng_randolph...ivic_info.html 'Curly' |
#19
|
|||
|
|||
Darn! Problem did not go away
"ThomasE" > wrote in
lkaboutautos.com: > Darn! Still problems > > I guess resoldering the relay did not do it. Still exhibiting the same > behavior this evening engine starts then after a second it stalls. > Finally started on the 4th try. > > So what else can it be? > > Does the actual relay go bad often? That is, do the relay contacts > fail or is it pretty much the soldering that fails. You raise a good point. I do not know the answer to that question. > I think it is very > unlikely that my new solder is bad in exactly the same way as the old > one. My wife was the one who experienced the malfunction this time so > I was not present to hear if at least the fuel pump was getting primed > for 2 seconds when the ignition was turned on. > You need to use the clicks of the relay to tell if it's bad. When the relay goes bad, one or more of the clicks is always missing, so it's a handy diagnstics tool. This is mentioned quite a number of times in the FAQ pages on the subject. http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/start...html#mainrelay Every single time you (or another driver) start the car, place your hand on the relay to feel the clicks as they happen. If one of the clicks is missing during the instances when the car stalls, the relay is not actually fixed. In your case, I suspect the third click is missing. That's the one which happens the instant you turn the key to "III". This third click can be hard to hear on account of it occurring the instant the starter kicks in. -- Tegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ |
#20
|
|||
|
|||
Resoldering
It so happens that I used the same exact soldering iron (the only one I
got). Probably unlikely that resoldering would leave the relay contacts in the same borderline situation (sometimes working sometimes not). |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Audi 4000 1987 Runs Good but Stalls, Starts, and Stalls | richardci | Audi | 1 | December 9th 06 04:52 PM |
Audi 4000s 1987 Runs Good but Stalls, Starts, and Stalls | richardci | Audi | 5 | December 9th 06 04:49 PM |
Audi 4000s 1987 Runs Good but Stalls, Starts, and Stalls | richardci | Audi | 0 | December 8th 06 11:40 PM |
Audi 4000s 1987 runs good but stalls suddenly, starts again, then stalls again | richardci | Audi | 0 | December 8th 06 11:37 PM |
Audi 4000s 1987 runs good but stalls suddenly, starts again, then stalls again | richardci | Audi | 0 | December 8th 06 11:36 PM |