JIFFY LUBE fu AGAIN

On Tue, 29 Jun 2004, Bob Urz wrote:

> I researched the fluid issue a while back when i was looking at used
> mini vans. That why i was suspicious. I am trying to find specs on
> dextron IIE. Its a synthetic? What synthetics are III+ compatible if
> any?

ATF+3 or ATF+4 are the only acceptable fluids for the '96 Chrysler
automatics. Period. End of story. There is no Dexron fluid that is
"compatible".

> What i want is something on IIE in black and white that says its NOT
> suitable for a Chrysler 604.

Yank the dipstick out of the transmission; it says it right there.

On Tue, 29 Jun 2004, Bob Urz wrote:

> The more i research this, the more confusing it is:

Not really confusing at all.

ATF+3: Yes.
ATF+4: Yes.
Anything else: NO!

> amsoil says its synthetic is ok for Chrysler

And Honda and Audi and Ford and GM and all kinds of other proprietary
fluid formulations that are *different* from one another, not better/worse
than one another. Scamsoil has a long list of lying.

> http://www.valvoline.com/pages/produ....asp?product=6
> valvoline says its product is mercon, dextron, and Chrysler compatible

No, it says it's "Recommended for use in GM, Ford, Mazda, Toyota, Chrysler
and Most Import Vehicles". That does not mean *EVERY* vehicle by those
makers, and does not supersede the requirements for any particular
vehicle. Any CHrysler product built before 1989 can use Dexron fluid, and
the fluid you point to is aimed at higher-mileage vehicles. Use your
damned brain!

> http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lub...Mobil_ATF3.asp
> Mobile list a ATF +III which i thought was the correct stuff

Yes. Very good. Correct.

One of these things is not like the others, one of these things does not
quite belong. C'mon, you know the tune, sing along!

> Chevron says this:
> it wasn't until 1997 that Chrysler owners' manuals no longer listed
> DEXRON as an acceptable replacement.

Chrysler owner's manuals NEVER listed Dexron as an "acceptable
replacement". They said it was OK to use Dexron _to top-up a transmission
low on fluid_ *IF* ATF+ was not available.

> So is dextron IIE ok for a 1996 604?

For about the eleventy-fifth time: NO!

> http://www.quakerstate.com/pages/pro...nventional.asp
> Has specialized fluids for III+

If by this gobbledegook you mean that Quaker State markets an ATF+3 fluid,
you're right.

> Alpar says:All Chrysler four-speed automatic transmissions* are very
> sensitive to the quality of the transmission fluid. Only use the ATF+[3
> or 4] in these transmissions. Do not use Dexron or Mercon.

Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding!


> Its hard to know what is all truth.

Not if you use the brain god gave you -- if so equipped.

This is not rocket science.

DS

On Tue, 29 Jun 2004, Bob Urz wrote:

> The more i research this, the more confusing it is:

Not really confusing at all.

ATF+3: Yes.
ATF+4: Yes.
Anything else: NO!

> amsoil says its synthetic is ok for Chrysler

And Honda and Audi and Ford and GM and all kinds of other proprietary
fluid formulations that are *different* from one another, not better/worse
than one another. Scamsoil has a long list of lying.

> http://www.valvoline.com/pages/produ....asp?product=6
> valvoline says its product is mercon, dextron, and Chrysler compatible

No, it says it's "Recommended for use in GM, Ford, Mazda, Toyota, Chrysler
and Most Import Vehicles". That does not mean *EVERY* vehicle by those
makers, and does not supersede the requirements for any particular
vehicle. Any CHrysler product built before 1989 can use Dexron fluid, and
the fluid you point to is aimed at higher-mileage vehicles. Use your
damned brain!

> http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lub...Mobil_ATF3.asp
> Mobile list a ATF +III which i thought was the correct stuff

Yes. Very good. Correct.

One of these things is not like the others, one of these things does not
quite belong. C'mon, you know the tune, sing along!

> Chevron says this:
> it wasn't until 1997 that Chrysler owners' manuals no longer listed
> DEXRON as an acceptable replacement.

Chrysler owner's manuals NEVER listed Dexron as an "acceptable
replacement". They said it was OK to use Dexron _to top-up a transmission
low on fluid_ *IF* ATF+ was not available.

> So is dextron IIE ok for a 1996 604?

For about the eleventy-fifth time: NO!

> http://www.quakerstate.com/pages/pro...nventional.asp
> Has specialized fluids for III+

If by this gobbledegook you mean that Quaker State markets an ATF+3 fluid,
you're right.

> Alpar says:All Chrysler four-speed automatic transmissions* are very
> sensitive to the quality of the transmission fluid. Only use the ATF+[3
> or 4] in these transmissions. Do not use Dexron or Mercon.

Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding!


> Its hard to know what is all truth.

Not if you use the brain god gave you -- if so equipped.

This is not rocket science.

DS

"Daniel J. Stern" wrote:

> On Tue, 29 Jun 2004, Bob Urz wrote:
>
> > The more i research this, the more confusing it is:
>
> Not really confusing at all.
>
> ATF+3: Yes.
> ATF+4: Yes.
> Anything else: NO!
>
> > amsoil says its synthetic is ok for Chrysler
>
> And Honda and Audi and Ford and GM and all kinds of other proprietary
> fluid formulations that are *different* from one another, not better/worse
> than one another. Scamsoil has a long list of lying.
>
> > http://www.valvoline.com/pages/produ....asp?product=6
> > valvoline says its product is mercon, dextron, and Chrysler compatible
>
> No, it says it's "Recommended for use in GM, Ford, Mazda, Toyota, Chrysler
> and Most Import Vehicles". That does not mean *EVERY* vehicle by those
> makers, and does not supersede the requirements for any particular
> vehicle. Any CHrysler product built before 1989 can use Dexron fluid, and
> the fluid you point to is aimed at higher-mileage vehicles. Use your
> damned brain!
>
> > http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lub...Mobil_ATF3.asp
> > Mobile list a ATF +III which i thought was the correct stuff
>
> Yes. Very good. Correct.
>
> One of these things is not like the others, one of these things does not
> quite belong. C'mon, you know the tune, sing along!
>
> > Chevron says this:
> > it wasn't until 1997 that Chrysler owners' manuals no longer listed
> > DEXRON as an acceptable replacement.
>
> Chrysler owner's manuals NEVER listed Dexron as an "acceptable
> replacement". They said it was OK to use Dexron _to top-up a transmission
> low on fluid_ *IF* ATF+ was not available.
>
> > So is dextron IIE ok for a 1996 604?
>
> For about the eleventy-fifth time: NO!
>
> > http://www.quakerstate.com/pages/pro...nventional.asp
> > Has specialized fluids for III+
>
> If by this gobbledegook you mean that Quaker State markets an ATF+3 fluid,
> you're right.
>
> > Alpar says:All Chrysler four-speed automatic transmissions* are very
> > sensitive to the quality of the transmission fluid. Only use the ATF+[3
> > or 4] in these transmissions. Do not use Dexron or Mercon.
>
> Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding!
>
> > Its hard to know what is all truth.
>
> Not if you use the brain god gave you -- if so equipped.
>
> This is not rocket science.
>
> DS

Thanks for the response, but there was really no need for the condescending
dufass ****. I don't own this van, but i am trying to help
my buddy that does. A major national company is telling him one thing. That
does not make them right, but if you confront them you better have all your
facts correct. That's what i was trying to do.
Telling them Daniel Stern said there stupid is not going to hold
much weight.......

And not all appears black in white. Take the Valvoline site.
You would say Valvoline is a respectable company?
http://www.valvoline.com/pages/produ...tion=406&aid=1

go to product spec. It says this:

"Recommended for use where the following fluids are specified:

Ford MERCON
GM DEXRON III, DEXRON III-G
GM DEXRON, DEXRON II, DEXRON IIE
Ford M2C138-CJ
Ford M2C166-H
Allison C-4

Valvoline also recommends for use in Chrysler
vehicles (including ATF+3 and ATF+4™)."

Sounds like a pretty generic list to me. So tell me, is Valvoline full of
****? Is this really a "generic fluid"?
I am just trying to get to the bottom of all this.

The safe answer is always use a specific 3+ product only. But if my buddy
goes head to head with Jiffy lube, he needs proof.

By the way, they are refunding his money and giving him a future oil change
certificate. So far the van is OK and the check engine light
is out. Future damage, who knows?

I am just looking for the magic bullet that he can tell them that
the dextron IIE is NOT SUITABLE for a total fluid change in
these transmission. And i would like to find out which OEM
supplies Jiffy with there trannie fluid and what its spec really is.

I am also recommending to him to get the fluid
changed back to the 3+.

Bob





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"Daniel J. Stern" wrote:

> On Tue, 29 Jun 2004, Bob Urz wrote:
>
> > The more i research this, the more confusing it is:
>
> Not really confusing at all.
>
> ATF+3: Yes.
> ATF+4: Yes.
> Anything else: NO!
>
> > amsoil says its synthetic is ok for Chrysler
>
> And Honda and Audi and Ford and GM and all kinds of other proprietary
> fluid formulations that are *different* from one another, not better/worse
> than one another. Scamsoil has a long list of lying.
>
> > http://www.valvoline.com/pages/produ....asp?product=6
> > valvoline says its product is mercon, dextron, and Chrysler compatible
>
> No, it says it's "Recommended for use in GM, Ford, Mazda, Toyota, Chrysler
> and Most Import Vehicles". That does not mean *EVERY* vehicle by those
> makers, and does not supersede the requirements for any particular
> vehicle. Any CHrysler product built before 1989 can use Dexron fluid, and
> the fluid you point to is aimed at higher-mileage vehicles. Use your
> damned brain!
>
> > http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lub...Mobil_ATF3.asp
> > Mobile list a ATF +III which i thought was the correct stuff
>
> Yes. Very good. Correct.
>
> One of these things is not like the others, one of these things does not
> quite belong. C'mon, you know the tune, sing along!
>
> > Chevron says this:
> > it wasn't until 1997 that Chrysler owners' manuals no longer listed
> > DEXRON as an acceptable replacement.
>
> Chrysler owner's manuals NEVER listed Dexron as an "acceptable
> replacement". They said it was OK to use Dexron _to top-up a transmission
> low on fluid_ *IF* ATF+ was not available.
>
> > So is dextron IIE ok for a 1996 604?
>
> For about the eleventy-fifth time: NO!
>
> > http://www.quakerstate.com/pages/pro...nventional.asp
> > Has specialized fluids for III+
>
> If by this gobbledegook you mean that Quaker State markets an ATF+3 fluid,
> you're right.
>
> > Alpar says:All Chrysler four-speed automatic transmissions* are very
> > sensitive to the quality of the transmission fluid. Only use the ATF+[3
> > or 4] in these transmissions. Do not use Dexron or Mercon.
>
> Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding!
>
> > Its hard to know what is all truth.
>
> Not if you use the brain god gave you -- if so equipped.
>
> This is not rocket science.
>
> DS

Thanks for the response, but there was really no need for the condescending
dufass ****. I don't own this van, but i am trying to help
my buddy that does. A major national company is telling him one thing. That
does not make them right, but if you confront them you better have all your
facts correct. That's what i was trying to do.
Telling them Daniel Stern said there stupid is not going to hold
much weight.......

And not all appears black in white. Take the Valvoline site.
You would say Valvoline is a respectable company?
http://www.valvoline.com/pages/produ...tion=406&aid=1

go to product spec. It says this:

"Recommended for use where the following fluids are specified:

Ford MERCON
GM DEXRON III, DEXRON III-G
GM DEXRON, DEXRON II, DEXRON IIE
Ford M2C138-CJ
Ford M2C166-H
Allison C-4

Valvoline also recommends for use in Chrysler
vehicles (including ATF+3 and ATF+4™)."

Sounds like a pretty generic list to me. So tell me, is Valvoline full of
****? Is this really a "generic fluid"?
I am just trying to get to the bottom of all this.

The safe answer is always use a specific 3+ product only. But if my buddy
goes head to head with Jiffy lube, he needs proof.

By the way, they are refunding his money and giving him a future oil change
certificate. So far the van is OK and the check engine light
is out. Future damage, who knows?

I am just looking for the magic bullet that he can tell them that
the dextron IIE is NOT SUITABLE for a total fluid change in
these transmission. And i would like to find out which OEM
supplies Jiffy with there trannie fluid and what its spec really is.

I am also recommending to him to get the fluid
changed back to the 3+.

Bob





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On Wed, 30 Jun 2004, BOB URZ wrote:

> Thanks for the response, but there was really no need for the
> condescending dufass ****.

There kinda was. You asked a stupid question and when given the answer
repeatedly, your responses ran to "Gee, I'm ever so much more confused"
and asking your original question again.

For reference the difference between a stupid question and an ignorant
question is one of initiative/laziness. If you could answer your own
question with just a few moments' further thought, it's a stupid question.

> Telling them Daniel Stern said there stupid is not going to hold much
> weight.......

I didn't say *they* were stupid. I said *you* were acting stupid. Assuming
that's what you meant, I agree with you. My statement carries no weight.

The statement in the vehicle owner's manual, the statement on the
vehicle's transmission dipstick, the statement in the vehicle's service
manual, the statement of the vehicle's manufacturer, on the other hand,
*ALL OF WHICH SAY YOU HAVE TO USE ATF+ AND NOT DEXRON*, are plenty
weighty.

> And not all appears black in white.

Does. You just insist on making it much more complex than it really is.

> Take the Valvoline site. You would say Valvoline is a respectable
> company? http://www.valvoline.com/pages/produ...ct_detail.asp?
> product=6&section=406&aid=1

Valvoline is a reputable company which in this case is making an improper
recommendation contrary to the *vehicle maker's* specification.

Let's put our thinking caps on. Concentrate, now! Think hard!

Which is the correct recommendation: The one appearing in every piece of
service literature produced by the company that built the vehicle? Or --
option "B" -- a website put up by the marketing department of an oil
company?

*cue the "Jeopardy" theme song*

> By the way, they are refunding his money and giving him a future oil
> change certificate.

Wow, a free no-charge certificate for another chance for them to screw up
his van! How kind of them!

As Presdidn't Bush says: "Fool me once...shame on...fool me once, shame on
you. Fool me twice...we won't be fooled again".

> I am just looking for the magic bullet that he can tell them that the
> dextron IIE is NOT SUITABLE for a total fluid change in these
> transmission.

You've been told and told and told where to find this information.
The fact you're too lazy to yank the dipstick or open the manual isn't
anyone else's problem.

On Wed, 30 Jun 2004, BOB URZ wrote:

> Thanks for the response, but there was really no need for the
> condescending dufass ****.

There kinda was. You asked a stupid question and when given the answer
repeatedly, your responses ran to "Gee, I'm ever so much more confused"
and asking your original question again.

For reference the difference between a stupid question and an ignorant
question is one of initiative/laziness. If you could answer your own
question with just a few moments' further thought, it's a stupid question.

> Telling them Daniel Stern said there stupid is not going to hold much
> weight.......

I didn't say *they* were stupid. I said *you* were acting stupid. Assuming
that's what you meant, I agree with you. My statement carries no weight.

The statement in the vehicle owner's manual, the statement on the
vehicle's transmission dipstick, the statement in the vehicle's service
manual, the statement of the vehicle's manufacturer, on the other hand,
*ALL OF WHICH SAY YOU HAVE TO USE ATF+ AND NOT DEXRON*, are plenty
weighty.

> And not all appears black in white.

Does. You just insist on making it much more complex than it really is.

> Take the Valvoline site. You would say Valvoline is a respectable
> company? http://www.valvoline.com/pages/produ...ct_detail.asp?
> product=6&section=406&aid=1

Valvoline is a reputable company which in this case is making an improper
recommendation contrary to the *vehicle maker's* specification.

Let's put our thinking caps on. Concentrate, now! Think hard!

Which is the correct recommendation: The one appearing in every piece of
service literature produced by the company that built the vehicle? Or --
option "B" -- a website put up by the marketing department of an oil
company?

*cue the "Jeopardy" theme song*

> By the way, they are refunding his money and giving him a future oil
> change certificate.

Wow, a free no-charge certificate for another chance for them to screw up
his van! How kind of them!

As Presdidn't Bush says: "Fool me once...shame on...fool me once, shame on
you. Fool me twice...we won't be fooled again".

> I am just looking for the magic bullet that he can tell them that the
> dextron IIE is NOT SUITABLE for a total fluid change in these
> transmission.

You've been told and told and told where to find this information.
The fact you're too lazy to yank the dipstick or open the manual isn't
anyone else's problem.

In article >,
BOB URZ > wrote:

<snip>

> I am just looking for the magic bullet that he can tell them that
> the dextron IIE is NOT SUITABLE for a total fluid change in
> these transmission.

In addition; checking the fluid recommendation in Mitchell On
Demand for any chassis that comes with the 41TE transaxle shows
very specifically to use ATF+3.
These guys are in business, it is -their- responsibility to have
the proper resources at hand WRT service information.

> And i would like to find out which OEM
> supplies Jiffy with there trannie fluid and what its spec really is.

Odds are that it comes from a local lubricants distributor.

> I am also recommending to him to get the fluid
> changed back to the 3+.

Elsewhere I hope.

In article >,
BOB URZ > wrote:

<snip>

> I am just looking for the magic bullet that he can tell them that
> the dextron IIE is NOT SUITABLE for a total fluid change in
> these transmission.

In addition; checking the fluid recommendation in Mitchell On
Demand for any chassis that comes with the 41TE transaxle shows
very specifically to use ATF+3.
These guys are in business, it is -their- responsibility to have
the proper resources at hand WRT service information.

> And i would like to find out which OEM
> supplies Jiffy with there trannie fluid and what its spec really is.

Odds are that it comes from a local lubricants distributor.

> I am also recommending to him to get the fluid
> changed back to the 3+.

Elsewhere I hope.

Neil Nelson wrote:
> In article >,
> BOB URZ > wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>
>>I am just looking for the magic bullet that he can tell them that
>>the dextron IIE is NOT SUITABLE for a total fluid change in
>>these transmission.
>
>
> In addition; checking the fluid recommendation in Mitchell On
> Demand for any chassis that comes with the 41TE transaxle shows
> very specifically to use ATF+3.
> These guys are in business, it is -their- responsibility to have
> the proper resources at hand WRT service information.
>
>
>>And i would like to find out which OEM
>>supplies Jiffy with there trannie fluid and what its spec really is.
>
>
> Odds are that it comes from a local lubricants distributor.
>
>
>>I am also recommending to him to get the fluid
>>changed back to the 3+.
>
>
> Elsewhere I hope.

Thank neil for the helpful replies. It still confuses me that the
valvoline site has their maxlife Dexron III/Mercon ATF product listed as
replacing all the different fluids including 3+. It seems to me one
product cannot have the same additives for all the applications listed.

http://www.valvoline.com/pages/produ....asp?product=6
click on product specs)
https://www.valvoline-technology.com/data/valv/prodinfo.nsf/0/85256AE300727D2BC1256BB900456C51/$file/Maxlife+ATF.pdf?OpenElement

But they also have a specific 3+ fluid.
http://www.valvoline.com/pages/produ...asp?product=63
(click on product specs)

The reason i am most curious about this "generic fluid" is maybe that's
what jiffy lube is using? Or something similar? I am just trying to
determine if that is even possible. That why so many questions.

Just for the record, i have never taken any of my personal cars to Jiffy
Lube. And i was just trying to understand all the issues involved in
compatibility. That i am guilty of.

Personally, i have never researched fluids to this extent before.
Never too late to learn.

I just wonder if jiffy lube has done this nation wide and there are
thousand of mopar trannies running around with he wrong fluid in them.

Bob




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