2002 GC Headlight Problem...

Here's a weird one...

Most of the time, but not *all* the time, I only have one headlight!

This all started a few weeeks ago. I thought I had a burnt out bulb on
the driver's side. So when I was at one of those oil change places I
asked them to replace it. When he did (twice) it still did not light.

So I started loooking more closely. When I turn the lights to the
"park" position, the passenger side light is on, and the driver's side
is off. When I turn the lights "on", then the driver's side comes on,
and the passengers side goes off!

So I was going to take it to the shop on Sat, and when I turned the
lights on, they worked just fine. Later that day (after the shop was
closed) we were back to the one-light scenario.

I do so hate electrical problems which are intermittent!

Anyone got any idea what's up here? A switch problem? Relay?

Thanks!

Newman wrote:
> Here's a weird one...
>
> Most of the time, but not *all* the time, I only have one headlight!
>
> This all started a few weeeks ago. I thought I had a burnt out bulb on
> the driver's side. So when I was at one of those oil change places I
> asked them to replace it. When he did (twice) it still did not light.
>
> So I started loooking more closely. When I turn the lights to the
> "park" position, the passenger side light is on, and the driver's side
> is off. When I turn the lights "on", then the driver's side comes on,
> and the passengers side goes off!
>
> So I was going to take it to the shop on Sat, and when I turned the
> lights on, they worked just fine. Later that day (after the shop was
> closed) we were back to the one-light scenario.
>
> I do so hate electrical problems which are intermittent!
>
> Anyone got any idea what's up here? A switch problem? Relay?
>
> Thanks!

The two best approaches I see a
(1) You or someone who can read schematics and do logical
troubleshooting - get the schematics (FSM - *not* an aftermarket manual
- "typical" schematics are worthless) and logically troubleshoot it
based on the symptoms, or
(2) The same person doing a visual check of the grounds and power wiring
involved in those lights, and if they don't find anything, getting out a
multimeter and logically troubleshooting it from the schematics.

Yes - intermittent problems are a PITA - you can't troubleshoot when the
problem is not there. Sometimes you can make the problem occur by
messing with the wiring involved, and, besides that being the time to
troubleshoot, often the area of wiring that you mess with to make the
problem happen will narrow it down a bit - making the troubleshooting by
visual inspection and the multimeter easier.

Also check that all harness and switch connectors are fully mated.
Demate them and check for corrosion. FSM can help with that also - they
have sections that show physical locations of the connectors and the
pinouts of the connectors.

Good luck.

--
Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

On Feb 16, 7:59�am, Newman > wrote:
> Here's a weird one...
>
> Most of the time, but not *all* the time, I only have one headlight!
>
> This all started a few weeeks ago. I thought I had a burnt out bulb on
> the driver's side. So when I was at one of those oil change places I
> asked them to replace it. When he did (twice) it still did not light.
>
> So I started loooking more closely. When I turn the lights to the
> "park" position, the passenger side light is on, and the driver's side
> is off. When I turn the lights "on", then the driver's side comes on,
> and the passengers side goes off!
>
> So I was going to take it to the shop on Sat, and when I turned the
> lights on, they worked just fine. Later that day (after the shop was
> closed) we were back to the one-light scenario.
>
> I do so hate electrical problems which are intermittent!
>
> Anyone got any idea what's up here? A switch problem? Relay?
>
> Thanks!

Newman

Find the ground connection for the headlight and determine if the
connection is good. May be corroded or loose.
Bob AZ

On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 22:57:45 -0800 (PST), Bob AZ >
wrote:

>On Feb 16, 7:59?am, Newman > wrote:
>> Here's a weird one...
>>
>> Most of the time, but not *all* the time, I only have one headlight!
>>
>> This all started a few weeeks ago. I thought I had a burnt out bulb on
>> the driver's side. So when I was at one of those oil change places I
>> asked them to replace it. When he did (twice) it still did not light.
>>
>> So I started loooking more closely. When I turn the lights to the
>> "park" position, the passenger side light is on, and the driver's side
>> is off. When I turn the lights "on", then the driver's side comes on,
>> and the passengers side goes off!
>>
>> So I was going to take it to the shop on Sat, and when I turned the
>> lights on, they worked just fine. Later that day (after the shop was
>> closed) we were back to the one-light scenario.
>>
>> I do so hate electrical problems which are intermittent!
>>
>> Anyone got any idea what's up here? A switch problem? Relay?
>>
>> Thanks!
>
>Newman
>
>Find the ground connection for the headlight and determine if the
>connection is good. May be corroded or loose.
>Bob AZ


Finally got around to taking the car into the shop after the problem
persisted.

The official diagnosis at my shop was "Front Control Module".

This little gem plugs directly into the IPM block, and costs $441!

This, however, was on a Sat, and the local Chrysler Dealer did not
deliver on Sat.

So I thought I would go over there and pick up the module and install
it myself - after all it is only 4 screws!

When I get to the Dealer, I am then informed that this Front Control
Module has to be PROGRAMMED to work with my car? for another $70 of
course! (WTF!)

Then, fatefully, one of the 5 Star Mechanics happens on the scene and
informs me that this is a 2 part problem. The source of the problem is
actually in the IPM block itself! Seems the connectors that the module
plugs into are crap, and if I do not replace both at the same time,
then the problem will either persist, or will return in a short period
of time!

The price for the IPM??? $400!!!!!

So because of Chryslers poor quality and poor quality control, I am
staring down a $1000 bill for parts! Parts that should NEVER go bad no
less.

It gets BETTER! While this dealership had the FCM, the IPM has been on
back-order for a long time, with no delivery date in sight. Stock
levels... Montreal -35, Toronto -21, Calgary -12, Richmond -5....

You get the picture!

So I scrubbed that and fixed it myself - at least for now.

Based on the information from my shop and from the Chrysler Dealer, I
went home and examined the parts in question.

Then I remembered I have an industrial contact cleaning kit from years
ago called Cramolin. It contains CR-10 Red Cleaner, and CR-20 Blue
Preservative.

So I carefully and methodically clean the contacts with the red cr-10,
and I put some cr-10 into the IPM contact holes that mate with teh
FCM. I then bent the pins slightly downward and carefully reinstalled
and seated the FCM into the IPM.

Headlights have now been working just fine for a couple of days!

So that the very least, I have pushed out a $1000 repair bill, and
possible eliminated it. Time will tell.

Now Chrysler is going to get an earful from me. This is something that
should be covered by an extended/hidden warranty. We are not talking
about a piece of trim here! We are talking about the central hub the
the entire electrical system of the vehicle! And the contacts in
quesiton were the ONLY contacts that were NOT gold plated! Attago
design engineers! Way to save $0.05!!!

Absolutely rediculous, not the mention inexcusable!

Thought you would like to know!

Looks like Cramolin has been replaced:

http://store.caig.com/s.nl/ctype.KB/....591/KB.240/.f

the new stuff is called DeoxIt:

http://store.caig.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.188/.f


I guess I'll need to go get some! It has *got* to be cheaper than the
$1000 parts bill!

On Tue, 27 Apr 2010 09:33:20 -0700, Newman >
wrote:

>On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 22:57:45 -0800 (PST), Bob AZ >
>wrote:
>
>>On Feb 16, 7:59?am, Newman > wrote:
>>> Here's a weird one...
>>>
>>> Most of the time, but not *all* the time, I only have one headlight!
>>>
>>> This all started a few weeeks ago. I thought I had a burnt out bulb on
>>> the driver's side. So when I was at one of those oil change places I
>>> asked them to replace it. When he did (twice) it still did not light.
>>>
>>> So I started loooking more closely. When I turn the lights to the
>>> "park" position, the passenger side light is on, and the driver's side
>>> is off. When I turn the lights "on", then the driver's side comes on,
>>> and the passengers side goes off!
>>>
>>> So I was going to take it to the shop on Sat, and when I turned the
>>> lights on, they worked just fine. Later that day (after the shop was
>>> closed) we were back to the one-light scenario.
>>>
>>> I do so hate electrical problems which are intermittent!
>>>
>>> Anyone got any idea what's up here? A switch problem? Relay?
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>
>>Newman
>>
>>Find the ground connection for the headlight and determine if the
>>connection is good. May be corroded or loose.
>>Bob AZ
>
>
>Finally got around to taking the car into the shop after the problem
>persisted.
>
>The official diagnosis at my shop was "Front Control Module".
>
>This little gem plugs directly into the IPM block, and costs $441!
>
>This, however, was on a Sat, and the local Chrysler Dealer did not
>deliver on Sat.
>
>So I thought I would go over there and pick up the module and install
>it myself - after all it is only 4 screws!
>
>When I get to the Dealer, I am then informed that this Front Control
>Module has to be PROGRAMMED to work with my car? for another $70 of
>course! (WTF!)
>
>Then, fatefully, one of the 5 Star Mechanics happens on the scene and
>informs me that this is a 2 part problem. The source of the problem is
>actually in the IPM block itself! Seems the connectors that the module
>plugs into are crap, and if I do not replace both at the same time,
>then the problem will either persist, or will return in a short period
>of time!
>
>The price for the IPM??? $400!!!!!
>
>So because of Chryslers poor quality and poor quality control, I am
>staring down a $1000 bill for parts! Parts that should NEVER go bad no
>less.
>
>It gets BETTER! While this dealership had the FCM, the IPM has been on
>back-order for a long time, with no delivery date in sight. Stock
>levels... Montreal -35, Toronto -21, Calgary -12, Richmond -5....
>
>You get the picture!
>
>So I scrubbed that and fixed it myself - at least for now.
>
>Based on the information from my shop and from the Chrysler Dealer, I
>went home and examined the parts in question.
>
>Then I remembered I have an industrial contact cleaning kit from years
>ago called Cramolin. It contains CR-10 Red Cleaner, and CR-20 Blue
>Preservative.
>
>So I carefully and methodically clean the contacts with the red cr-10,
>and I put some cr-10 into the IPM contact holes that mate with teh
>FCM. I then bent the pins slightly downward and carefully reinstalled
>and seated the FCM into the IPM.
>
>Headlights have now been working just fine for a couple of days!
>
>So that the very least, I have pushed out a $1000 repair bill, and
>possible eliminated it. Time will tell.
>
>Now Chrysler is going to get an earful from me. This is something that
>should be covered by an extended/hidden warranty. We are not talking
>about a piece of trim here! We are talking about the central hub the
>the entire electrical system of the vehicle! And the contacts in
>quesiton were the ONLY contacts that were NOT gold plated! Attago
>design engineers! Way to save $0.05!!!
>
>Absolutely rediculous, not the mention inexcusable!
>
>Thought you would like to know!
>
>Looks like Cramolin has been replaced:
>
>http://store.caig.com/s.nl/ctype.KB/....591/KB.240/.f
>
>the new stuff is called DeoxIt:
>
>http://store.caig.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.188/.f
>
>
>I guess I'll need to go get some! It has *got* to be cheaper than the
>$1000 parts bill!

Well, here we are on Monthers Day - some 2 wweks later, and hedlights
are still working just fine.

"NewMan" > wrote in message
...
>
> Well, here we are on Monthers Day - some 2 wweks later, and hedlights
> are still working just fine.

On an '01 Ram Sport I ran a length of 14 AWG wire directly from the
appropriate pin on the multifunction switch to the driver's side primary
headlight socket to fix a high beam inop problem. Being a Sport model it
has the quad high beams and that wire made all 4 come on. By jumpering the
relay in the PDC I could make the secondary 2 come on. I downloaded a PDF
of the FSM and its schematics really helped with the fix. It also showed me
how many times that particular circuit goes between 14 and 16 AWG wire.
IIRC it is 16 from the headlight switch to the MF switch, 14 from the high
beam pin to the IPM under the dash, switches back to 16 at the contacts you
mentioned and runs to the PDC where it is spliced to run to the secondary
relay and the 2 primary sockets.