In-the-tank fuel pumps cause death and destruction

Full_Name wrote:

> On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 23:00:03 +0200 (CEST), Nomen Nescio
> > wrote:
>
>
>>Have you all observed that not one automobile has a drain valve installed
>>to the fuel tank?
>><snip>
>
> I've seen many early Japanese cars with such a device (Nissan Maxima,
> Toyota Crown / Cressida etc).
> Question is how often is it used (virtually never) Putting a drain
> on a fuel tank creates a potential leak source and requires greater
> cost and added weight for the vehicle to haul around (ditto for the
> dual fuel pump idea that was below).

Yes, and if you don't use the drain fairly often, it will be so corroded
by the time you need it that it will likely just snap off anyway causing
a situation more dangerous than not having it to start with. Someone
earlier mentioned the comparison to airplane fuel drains. This is a
completely bogus analogy for at least two reasons:

1. The airplane drains are used before EVERY flight (or at least should
be). This keeps them in good working order, at last until the seals get
back and they start to seep, but then you replace the seals.

2. Airplanes aren't exposed to the road salt and other nasty stuff that
the underside of a car sees.


Matt

Full_Name wrote:

> On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 23:00:03 +0200 (CEST), Nomen Nescio
> > wrote:
>
>
>>Have you all observed that not one automobile has a drain valve installed
>>to the fuel tank?
>><snip>
>
> I've seen many early Japanese cars with such a device (Nissan Maxima,
> Toyota Crown / Cressida etc).
> Question is how often is it used (virtually never) Putting a drain
> on a fuel tank creates a potential leak source and requires greater
> cost and added weight for the vehicle to haul around (ditto for the
> dual fuel pump idea that was below).

Yes, and if you don't use the drain fairly often, it will be so corroded
by the time you need it that it will likely just snap off anyway causing
a situation more dangerous than not having it to start with. Someone
earlier mentioned the comparison to airplane fuel drains. This is a
completely bogus analogy for at least two reasons:

1. The airplane drains are used before EVERY flight (or at least should
be). This keeps them in good working order, at last until the seals get
back and they start to seep, but then you replace the seals.

2. Airplanes aren't exposed to the road salt and other nasty stuff that
the underside of a car sees.


Matt

Thomas Moats wrote:

> "Full_Name" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 23:00:03 +0200 (CEST), Nomen Nescio
> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Have you all observed that not one automobile has a drain valve installed
>>>to the fuel tank?
>>><snip>
>
>
> Most diesel tanks do. Most diesel engines also have water separators somewhere
> in the fuel system. There is a physical difference between gasoline and diesel
> fuel as to why.

Actually, their isn't. Water doesn't mix with either.


Matt

Thomas Moats wrote:

> "Full_Name" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 23:00:03 +0200 (CEST), Nomen Nescio
> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Have you all observed that not one automobile has a drain valve installed
>>>to the fuel tank?
>>><snip>
>
>
> Most diesel tanks do. Most diesel engines also have water separators somewhere
> in the fuel system. There is a physical difference between gasoline and diesel
> fuel as to why.

Actually, their isn't. Water doesn't mix with either.


Matt

"Denny" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Thomas Moats" > wrote in message
> ...
> > <snip>
> >> >If you have about a week to wait for the fuel to tranfer........
> >>
> >> No,, about half an hour maximum will empty a 72 liter tank - and
> >> totally unmonitored, so you can do another job while it is being
> >> drained. The schrader valve is removed to remove a significant amount
> >> of restriction from the line.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> ><snip>
> >> >
> >>
> >
> > That is bull.
> >
> >
> Actually, no it's not. It works great as long as you have a working fuel
> pump.
>
> Denny
>
>
If your fuel pump is working why would you would you drain it that way? It is
very time consuming. You will not pull 72 liters or 19 gallons in a half hour.

"Denny" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Thomas Moats" > wrote in message
> ...
> > <snip>
> >> >If you have about a week to wait for the fuel to tranfer........
> >>
> >> No,, about half an hour maximum will empty a 72 liter tank - and
> >> totally unmonitored, so you can do another job while it is being
> >> drained. The schrader valve is removed to remove a significant amount
> >> of restriction from the line.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> ><snip>
> >> >
> >>
> >
> > That is bull.
> >
> >
> Actually, no it's not. It works great as long as you have a working fuel
> pump.
>
> Denny
>
>
If your fuel pump is working why would you would you drain it that way? It is
very time consuming. You will not pull 72 liters or 19 gallons in a half hour.

"maxpower" > wrote in message
...
> When i worked at the dodge dealer, the way i removed the intank fuel pumps
> was not to drop the tank but raise the bed, the tank can be completly full
> and never dropped....remove the 6 15mm. bolts...leave the two back ones in
> but loosen them the ground strap and the three screws attaching the fuel
> neck to the body comes off, lower the truck with a jack stand under the bed
> , the bed goes up while the truck comes down, looks like a dump truck
> dropping a load when it is up
> Glenn Beasley
> Chrysler Tech

Yup, works great with a truck. Now do that on a mini-van. Try that on a
LHS.........

> "Thomas Moats" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 22:54:06 -0400, "Al Smith" >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >Wait a minute. Maybe there are shortcuts in some cases - and I have
> only
> > > >done
> > > >it once - but every fuel pump replacement I have heard about
> > > >involves dropping the tank.
> > > >
> > >
> > > None of the intank fuel pumps used on carbureted Toyota vehicles
> > > required removal of the tank to replace. All had screwed on access
> > > covers either in the trunk or floor under the rear seat to access the
> > > fuel sender.fuel pickup/fuel pump.. Many other vehicles were built the
> > > same.
> > >
> > > Many of today's vehicles DO require dropping the tank - and MANY of
> > > those tanks are plastic, not steel.. Many of them have quick
> > > disconnects to disconnect the fuel lines, and if less than 1/4 full
> > > pose a very limitted danger of spillage when removing. They are also
> > > usually relatively simple to drain with a proper fuel transfer pump,
> > > either electrical, air powered, or manual.
> > >
> > > Most fuel injected vehicles can be easily drained from under the hood
> > > by connecting the transfer pump to the service valve on the fuel rail
> > > - without getting ANY fuel or fuel vapours into the shop, and with NO
> > > danger of fire.
> >
> > If you have about a week to wait for the fuel to tranfer........
> >
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> >
>
>

"maxpower" > wrote in message
...
> When i worked at the dodge dealer, the way i removed the intank fuel pumps
> was not to drop the tank but raise the bed, the tank can be completly full
> and never dropped....remove the 6 15mm. bolts...leave the two back ones in
> but loosen them the ground strap and the three screws attaching the fuel
> neck to the body comes off, lower the truck with a jack stand under the bed
> , the bed goes up while the truck comes down, looks like a dump truck
> dropping a load when it is up
> Glenn Beasley
> Chrysler Tech

Yup, works great with a truck. Now do that on a mini-van. Try that on a
LHS.........

> "Thomas Moats" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 22:54:06 -0400, "Al Smith" >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >Wait a minute. Maybe there are shortcuts in some cases - and I have
> only
> > > >done
> > > >it once - but every fuel pump replacement I have heard about
> > > >involves dropping the tank.
> > > >
> > >
> > > None of the intank fuel pumps used on carbureted Toyota vehicles
> > > required removal of the tank to replace. All had screwed on access
> > > covers either in the trunk or floor under the rear seat to access the
> > > fuel sender.fuel pickup/fuel pump.. Many other vehicles were built the
> > > same.
> > >
> > > Many of today's vehicles DO require dropping the tank - and MANY of
> > > those tanks are plastic, not steel.. Many of them have quick
> > > disconnects to disconnect the fuel lines, and if less than 1/4 full
> > > pose a very limitted danger of spillage when removing. They are also
> > > usually relatively simple to drain with a proper fuel transfer pump,
> > > either electrical, air powered, or manual.
> > >
> > > Most fuel injected vehicles can be easily drained from under the hood
> > > by connecting the transfer pump to the service valve on the fuel rail
> > > - without getting ANY fuel or fuel vapours into the shop, and with NO
> > > danger of fire.
> >
> > If you have about a week to wait for the fuel to tranfer........
> >
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> >
>
>

Thomas Moats wrote:

> "Denny" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>"Thomas Moats" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>><snip>
>>>
>>>>>If you have about a week to wait for the fuel to tranfer........
>>>>
>>>>No,, about half an hour maximum will empty a 72 liter tank - and
>>>>totally unmonitored, so you can do another job while it is being
>>>>drained. The schrader valve is removed to remove a significant amount
>>>>of restriction from the line.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>><snip>
>>>>>
>>>That is bull.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Actually, no it's not. It works great as long as you have a working fuel
>>pump.
>>
>>Denny
>>
>>
>
> If your fuel pump is working why would you would you drain it that way? It is
> very time consuming. You will not pull 72 liters or 19 gallons in a half hour.
>
>

I believe the original poster said transfer pump, not the car's fuel
pump. That method would work just fine.


Matt

Thomas Moats wrote:

> "Denny" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>"Thomas Moats" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>><snip>
>>>
>>>>>If you have about a week to wait for the fuel to tranfer........
>>>>
>>>>No,, about half an hour maximum will empty a 72 liter tank - and
>>>>totally unmonitored, so you can do another job while it is being
>>>>drained. The schrader valve is removed to remove a significant amount
>>>>of restriction from the line.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>><snip>
>>>>>
>>>That is bull.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Actually, no it's not. It works great as long as you have a working fuel
>>pump.
>>
>>Denny
>>
>>
>
> If your fuel pump is working why would you would you drain it that way? It is
> very time consuming. You will not pull 72 liters or 19 gallons in a half hour.
>
>

I believe the original poster said transfer pump, not the car's fuel
pump. That method would work just fine.


Matt