still 91 Civic distributor problems?

Well I have now replaced my main relay with a new one from Napa(I had
previously re-soldered all the points) and I replaced the ignition switch
with OEM Honda part. But I still have a problem.

I can be driving and the thing just cuts out like the power was turned off
to it. Two years ago it died while driving it and I had to have it towed. At
that time I towed it to a mechanic who replaced the distributor with a
Carquest one. Two years before that, I had myself replaced the igniter when
I had starting problems.

What are the chances the distributor is bad again?? I ran the car tonight
and let it idle and sure enough it died after about 10 minutes. So I pulled
off a plug wire and attached a spark plug to it. Cranked, but definitely NO
SPARK at all.

So do I need another distributor? When I checked the coil with a meter it
was within the Haynes book numbers. I could just replace the coil and
igniter, but would I be better to replace the whole unit?

There is no Check Engine light. What are the chances the ECU computer is bad
as opposed to a bad distributor??

thanks in advance,

Gary
91 Civic Hatchback 5spd,1500cc,178kmiles
stranded in Hawaii

"Ropert's Aloha" > wrote

> Well I have now replaced my main relay with a new one from Napa(I had
> previously re-soldered all the points) and I replaced the ignition switch
> with OEM Honda part. But I still have a problem.
> I can be driving and the thing just cuts out like the power was turned off
> to it. Two years ago it died while driving it and I had to have it towed. At
> that time I towed it to a mechanic who replaced the distributor with a
> Carquest one. Two years before that, I had myself replaced the igniter when
> I had starting problems.
> What are the chances the distributor is bad again?? I ran the car tonight
> and let it idle and sure enough it died after about 10 minutes. So I pulled
> off a plug wire and attached a spark plug to it. Cranked, but definitely NO
> SPARK at all.
> So do I need another distributor? When I checked the coil with a meter it
> was within the Haynes book numbers. I could just replace the coil and
> igniter, but would I be better to replace the whole unit?
> What are the chances the ECU computer is bad
> as opposed to a bad distributor?? There is no Check Engine light.
>91 Civic Hatchback 5spd,1500cc,178kmiles stranded in Hawaii. -Gary

Smell any gas on plug? If you smell gas then likely ECU is fine.
So, the problem could be the lack of heat sink grease on the
igniter (probably improperly installed by Carquest) or a hairline
crack on coil. It's probably time for a new distributor, since by
this time I don't believe you mind replacing another expensive
part without a complete diagnose. ECU are reliable but did the
check engine light come on then off normally during the symptoms
or were there any LED code on the ECU box? Is this a DX, a
LX, or an FI?

There's not a whole lot to a distributor that can fail, except the
sensor, ignitor,coil, rotor and cap. Since your distributor is
relatively new, it would be hard to believe a mechanical failure is the
problem.

I'd check the components inside:

Make sure you have 12V on one side of the transformer. Also make sure
you have a decent ground to the ignitor.

Check your ignitor by putting a 12V bulb across the primary of the coil
- crank the engine and see if it flashes. If not, it could be your
ignitor but check the sensor inside the distributor as well (that will
require a scope, though).

If the bulb flashes, disconnect the wire from the ignitor to the coil.
It is the wire that has nothing else attached to it. Attach a temporary
wire to the coil's connector. Leave the other side of this temporary
wire bare. Attach whatever method you prefer to check for spark to the
output of the coil. If you touch that bare side of the wire to ground
you should see a spark (just quickly touch/disconnect, touch/disconnect
-- don't keep it attached to ground as that will do damage to the coil)

If you see a decent spark, the problem must be in the rotor, cap, wires
or plugs.

If your problem ends up being the ignitor, take the coil out and
inspect it -- mine had hairline cracks and discoloration where it might
have arced to the case. In my case, the coil took out the ignitor.
Hope you find it soon.
Remco

Ropert's Aloha wrote:
> Well I have now replaced my main relay with a new one from Napa(I had
> previously re-soldered all the points) and I replaced the ignition switch
> with OEM Honda part. But I still have a problem.
>
> I can be driving and the thing just cuts out like the power was turned off
> to it. Two years ago it died while driving it and I had to have it towed. At
> that time I towed it to a mechanic who replaced the distributor with a
> Carquest one. Two years before that, I had myself replaced the igniter when
> I had starting problems.
>
> What are the chances the distributor is bad again?? I ran the car tonight
> and let it idle and sure enough it died after about 10 minutes. So I pulled
> off a plug wire and attached a spark plug to it. Cranked, but definitely NO
> SPARK at all.
>
> So do I need another distributor? When I checked the coil with a meter it
> was within the Haynes book numbers. I could just replace the coil and
> igniter, but would I be better to replace the whole unit?
>
> There is no Check Engine light. What are the chances the ECU computer is bad
> as opposed to a bad distributor??
>
> thanks in advance,
>
> Gary
> 91 Civic Hatchback 5spd,1500cc,178kmiles
> stranded in Hawaii
----------------------


Have you ever had trouble with moisture in your Civic, like flooding /
open window in rainstorm? Maybe a corroded ground lug somewhere? Does it
happen with bumpy roads, or just anytime?

'Curly'

> Have you ever had trouble with moisture in your Civic, like flooding /
> open window in rainstorm? Maybe a corroded ground lug somewhere? Does it
> happen with bumpy roads, or just anytime?

Never had a moisture problem. After searching the net, it seems others have
had that same problem of distributors going bad. The Honda weak point. I'm
just trying to decide if I should just replace the coil and igniter instead
of the whole distributor....................

After it sits, and I assume the coil cools down, it starts right
up...........

> There's not a whole lot to a distributor that can fail, except the
> sensor, ignitor,coil, rotor and cap.

My cap and rotor are almost new. Plug wires(NGK) are only a couple months old.


Since your distributor is relatively new, it would be hard to believe a mechanical failure is the
problem.

That's what I would think. But why do so many mechanics I talk to want to replace the whole thing as opposed to first trying just the coil and igniter? I would think if the body of the distributor is good(bearings etc), why replace that? When I called the Honda dealer out here, they didn't even have the distributor in stock, but definitely had the coil and igniter. In the past I've used Carquest for an igniter and then a whole rebuilt distributor. Yet another mechanic I talked with said he had used Napa before and that distributor failed 6 months later.

I'd check the components inside:

I'm kinda of a dunce at electirc repairs. My elderly neighbor is an electrical engineer and he put a meter on the coil and it checked out around 13,000. But at the time he didn't know much about how to check the igniter. At that time we put a screw driver into one of the spark plug sockets and started the engine. He showed me that it had a really good blue arcing spark with no breaks in it. He said that was a sign the coil was good. So later that day I drove away and then broke down 8 miles later! Yet when it cools off, it gets spark again and cranks right up. Yesterday I idled it in my driveway and it went fine for about 10 minutes and then stopped. At that point I checked for spark and there was none. I also pulled up the carpet and turned the key on to see if there were any codes. Nada, none. I only got an initial blink of the ECU once. I watched for about 45 seconds and nothing else blinked with the ignition on.

I thought the igniter mainly affected the starting of the car. Yet it starts fine when cold, but after warming up, it's just like someone turned the key off.........

Coil, igniter or both?????

Could I replace one item at at time, or could one bad component ruin the other?

thanks for the help

Gary
now walking in Hawaii

Ropert's Aloha wrote:
>
> /> There's not a whole lot to a distributor that can fail, except the
> > sensor, ignitor,coil, rotor and cap. /
>
> My cap and rotor are almost new. Plug wires(NGK) are only a couple
> months old.
>
>
> /Since your distributor is relatively new, it would be hard to believe a
> mechanical failure is the
> problem./
>
> That's what I would think. But why do so many mechanics I talk to want
> to replace the whole thing as opposed to first trying just the coil and
> igniter?

many mechanics today are trained to replace, not repair. big picture,
where labor costs are high and skills are, shall we say, "inconsistent",
it makes a lot of sense. for example, it's technically possible to
maintain sealed bearings rather than replace, but completely uneconomic
to do so once labor costs and inconsistent results are taken into account.

> I would think if the body of the distributor is good(bearings
> etc), why replace that? When I called the Honda dealer out here, they
> didn't even have the distributor in stock, but definitely had the coil
> and igniter. In the past I've used Carquest for an igniter and then a
> whole rebuilt distributor. Yet another mechanic I talked with said he
> had used Napa before and that distributor failed 6 months later.

that's the trouble with remanufactured parts - so often they're inferior
quality. if you have a honda distributor, and can use a screwdriver,
consider replacing components yourself. coil, ignitor, main relay are
the big 3 candidates, and not necessarily in that order.

>
> / I'd check the components inside:/
>
> I'm kinda of a dunce at electirc repairs. My elderly neighbor is an
> electrical engineer and he put a meter on the coil and it checked out
> around 13,000. But at the time he didn't know much about how to check
> the igniter. At that time we put a screw driver into one of the spark
> plug sockets and started the engine. He showed me that it had a really
> good blue arcing spark with no breaks in it. He said that was a sign the
> coil was good. So later that day I drove away and then broke down 8
> miles later! Yet when it cools off, it gets spark again and cranks right
> up. Yesterday I idled it in my driveway and it went fine for about 10
> minutes and then stopped. At that point I checked for spark and there
> was none. I also pulled up the carpet and turned the key on to see if
> there were any codes. Nada, none. I only got an initial blink of the ECU
> once. I watched for about 45 seconds and nothing else blinked with the
> ignition on.
>
> I thought the igniter mainly affected the starting of the car. Yet it
> starts fine when cold, but after warming up, it's just like someone
> turned the key off.........
>
> Coil, igniter or both?????

try main relay first. tegger's got the scoop on the faq's. and read
graham w's igniter diagnosis page too - a cracked distributor cap can
cause similar symptoms, and be tricky to diagnose.

>
> Could I replace one item at at time, or could one bad component ruin the
> other?

yes. no.

>
> thanks for the help
>
> Gary
> now walking in Hawaii
>

"Remco" > wrote

> If the bulb flashes, disconnect the wire from the ignitor to the coil.
> It is the wire that has nothing else attached to it. Attach a temporary
> wire to the coil's connector. Leave the other side of this temporary
> wire bare. Attach whatever method you prefer to check for spark to the
> output of the coil. If you touch that bare side of the wire to ground
> you should see a spark (just quickly touch/disconnect, touch/disconnect
> -- don't keep it attached to ground as that will do damage to the coil)
> If you see a decent spark, the problem must be in the rotor, cap, wires
> or plugs.

After reading this I began recalling a 92 Civic that stalls in traffic
then starts after 20 min. Then stalls again after 20 min, no spark.
Turned out to be a melting rotor, as you mentioned. If the OP
decides to either replace the coil or igniter, then the bulb test is
essential. If the check engine light comes on normally and no
stored codes, which he says so, then likely the sensor inside
the distributor is received by the computer.

(Regarding your statement about grounding out the coil. If
the bulb flashes, maybe, simply crank the motor? ;-)

> Check your ignitor by putting a 12V bulb across the primary of the coil
> - crank the engine and see if it flashes. If not, it could be your
> ignitor but check the sensor inside the distributor as well (that will
> require a scope, though).

Check the signals at the ECU. It will show a blip on a sensitive
DMM, set to AC... not accurate but good enough.

"Ropert's Aloha" > wrote

> I'm just trying to decide if I should just replace the coil and igniter

I use freeze sprays to check dead semiconductors. Might work here.