Honda to sell sub $12,000 hybrid in 07 or 08

http://www.planetark.org/dailynewsst...5270/story.htm

JAPAN: February 23, 2006

TOKYO - Honda Motor Co. plans to sell a low-cost hybrid car, a version
of its popular Fit subcompact, a Japanese daily reported, signalling
the auto maker's long-term commitment to the fuel-sipping powertrain.

Japan's third-biggest auto maker aims to sell the Fit hybrid as early
as next year for around 1.4 million yen ($11,790), or about 200,000
yen more than the gasoline-only version, likely making it the world's
first hybrid to cost less than 2 million yen ($16,840), the leading
Japanese business daily said on Wednesday.
The model could be launched in the business year starting April 2007
and would be sold globally, the paper said.

A spokesman denied Honda had made any decision on whether to hybridise
the Fit, but added it had the technological wherewithal to mount its
hybrid system, which twins an electric motor and a conventional engine
to save fuel, on most of its vehicles.

Chief Executive Takeo Fukui has long said the price premium for a
hybrid over a gasoline-only car needs to fall below 200,000 yen
($1,680) for the powertrain to go mainstream.

With hybrid systems still costing auto makers - and customers -
thousands of dollars, Fukui has said Honda had not made a strategic
decision yet to produce the gasoline-electric vehicles in big volumes,
unlike rival Toyota Motor Corp., which has aggressively promoted their
proliferation.

A decision to offer a hybrid version of the mass-volume Fit - Honda's
best-selling model in Japan and due to debut in the United States soon
- would suggest the auto maker is a step closer to committing to the
powertrain longer-term.

Honda also sells hybrid versions of its two best-selling cars, the
Accord and Civic, at a premium of around 300,000 yen ($2,525). Its
hybrid-only Insight coupe was the first gasoline-electric car to be
sold in the United States.

Honda is developing a smaller motor and battery to reduce the hybrid's
cost and weight, the Nihon Keizai said. It will twin the hybrid unit
with a one-litre engine for the Fit, the paper added.

Toyota also aims to halve the production and selling cost of a hybrid
system. It currently sells many of its hybrid models at a premium of
around 500,000 yen ($4,200).

Honda, Toyota and Ford Motor Co. are so far the world's sole
mass-producers of hybrid passenger cars. Laggards like General Motors
Corp. argue that hybrid systems are most suitable for large vehicles
due to the added weight from the extra components.

Compact cars are also generally fuel-efficient to begin with, and the
extra cost of a hybrid car may be more difficult to justify, depending
on how much can be saved at the pump.

The newspaper said the Fit hybrid would have fuel economy comparable
to that of the Honda Insight and Toyota Prius, which the auto makers
advertise in Japan as getting around 35-36 km to a litre (82-84 miles
per gallon).

The most fuel-efficient gasoline-only Fit, with a 1.3-litre engine and
continuous variable transmission, gets 24 km to a litre (56 miles per
gallon).

(US$1=118.78 yen)

"laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE" > wrote in message
...
>
> http://www.planetark.org/dailynewsst...5270/story.htm
>
> Compact cars are also generally fuel-efficient to begin with, and the
> extra cost of a hybrid car may be more difficult to justify, depending
> on how much can be saved at the pump.
>
> The newspaper said the Fit hybrid would have fuel economy comparable
> to that of the Honda Insight and Toyota Prius, which the auto makers
> advertise in Japan as getting around 35-36 km to a litre (82-84 miles
> per gallon).
>
> The most fuel-efficient gasoline-only Fit, with a 1.3-litre engine and
> continuous variable transmission, gets 24 km to a litre (56 miles per
> gallon).
>
> (US$1=118.78 yen)
>
>

Hybrids are not the answer. They are more-expensive and more-efficient
soon-to-be-obsolete technology. Their major flaw is that they still burn
gasoline, and a lot of it. There is no way that you are going to see a
hybrid do 82-84MPG. 50-60MPG tops is more realistic. Many years ago,
Suzuki sold a subcompact vehicle in North America (Swift) which cost MUCH
less than any hybrid (even adjusted for today's dollars) and realistically
got mid-50s MPG on the highway. This ultra-efficient vehicle was also sold
by Chevrolet, which dubbed it the "Geo Metro". The closest thing to a fuel
efficient non-hybrid you are likely to find in 2006 in North America would
be a Toyota Scion XA or a Honda Fit. But note that you won't find the 1.3
liter version of the Honda Fit. You will find a 1.5 liter version, though.
I doubt very much that it will get 56MPG, but low to mid 40s is probably
doable. Paying $2000 extra for a car with slightly better fuel economy and
infinitely more numerous maintenance headaches does not seem like such a
good idea.

$2000 extra for a hydrogen car would be reasonable, but not for a gasoline
burning car with electric motors, also. -Dave

On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 18:39:31 GMT, laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
> wrote:

>http://www.planetark.org/dailynewsst...5270/story.htm
>JAPAN: February 23, 2006
>
>TOKYO - Honda Motor Co. plans to sell a low-cost hybrid car, a version
>of its popular Fit subcompact, a Japanese daily reported, signalling
>the auto maker's long-term commitment to the fuel-sipping powertrain.

Zero to fifty in 2.1 hours ?

On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 15:59:32 -0500, "Mike T." >
wrote:

>
>"B1ackwater" > wrote in message
. ..
>> On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 18:39:31 GMT, laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>http://www.planetark.org/dailynewsst...5270/story.htm
>>>JAPAN: February 23, 2006
>>>
>>>TOKYO - Honda Motor Co. plans to sell a low-cost hybrid car, a version
>>>of its popular Fit subcompact, a Japanese daily reported, signalling
>>>the auto maker's long-term commitment to the fuel-sipping powertrain.
>>
>> Zero to fifty in 2.1 hours ?
>>
>
>No, we won't get the fuel-efficient version in North America. If we did,
>the MSRP would be $17 - $18 grand (much higher than the sub $12 grand
>mentioned in the subject). Instead, Honda will sell the 1.5 liter version.
>It won't be a speed demon, but it will be a good short-distance commuter.
>Again, it will probably MSRP for about $17 grand. -Dave

Moped performance at Saturn prices ... I guess *some* people
will buy. There's always a self-superior segment who likes to
rub everyone elses nose in their ecological consciousness.

I'd suggest building cool-looking UNCONVENTIONAL vehicles -
that just happen to get really good mileage.

For example :

http://www.triking-cyclecars.co.uk/i...dcar_small.gif
http://morgan3w.de/temp/homepage051027.jpg

and ESPECIALLY the "Carver" :
http://www.carver-europe.com/home.htm

video :
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/41431/...l_carR/wfd_201

Such things can save you lots of gas AND be incredibly cool
and peppy at the same time.

On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 22:05:22 GMT, (B1ackwater) wrote:

>On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 15:59:32 -0500, "Mike T." >
>wrote:
>
>>
>>"B1ackwater" > wrote in message
.. .
>>> On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 18:39:31 GMT, laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>>http://www.planetark.org/dailynewsst...5270/story.htm
>>>>JAPAN: February 23, 2006
>>>>
>>>>TOKYO - Honda Motor Co. plans to sell a low-cost hybrid car, a version
>>>>of its popular Fit subcompact, a Japanese daily reported, signalling
>>>>the auto maker's long-term commitment to the fuel-sipping powertrain.
>>>
>>> Zero to fifty in 2.1 hours ?
>>>
>>
>>No, we won't get the fuel-efficient version in North America. If we did,
>>the MSRP would be $17 - $18 grand (much higher than the sub $12 grand
>>mentioned in the subject). Instead, Honda will sell the 1.5 liter version.
>>It won't be a speed demon, but it will be a good short-distance commuter.
>>Again, it will probably MSRP for about $17 grand. -Dave
>
> Moped performance at Saturn prices ... I guess *some* people
> will buy. There's always a self-superior segment who likes to
> rub everyone elses nose in their ecological consciousness.

There's always the guy who thinks that everyone's in a race. Some
people just need a car to get them and their stuff around, and not for
the penis extension needs you seem to feel people shop for.

> I'd suggest building cool-looking UNCONVENTIONAL vehicles -
> that just happen to get really good mileage.

You mean niche vehicles most people don't want to drive?

> For example :
>
> http://www.triking-cyclecars.co.uk/i...dcar_small.gif

Looks too low to be safe, and can't have much storage space at all.

> http://morgan3w.de/temp/homepage051027.jpg

Might as well get a motorcycle.

> and ESPECIALLY the "Carver" :
> http://www.carver-europe.com/home.htm
>
> video :
> http://www.metacafe.com/watch/41431/...l_carR/wfd_201
>
> Such things can save you lots of gas AND be incredibly cool
> and peppy at the same time.

40 mpg, the Carver web site claims. Just marginally more than my
non-hybrid Honda. It looks like a fun toy, but nothing more.

Dave

In article >, SD Dave wrote:

> There's always the guy who thinks that everyone's in a race. Some
> people just need a car to get them and their stuff around, and not for
> the penis extension needs you seem to feel people shop for.

The problem is a safety one. When I am stuck behind merge impared morons
who think that mergining into 80mph traffic at 35mph or stopping at the
end of an on ramp is a good idea I need horsepower to make a safe
double-merge. The more horsepower the easier it becomes to deal with
situations like this.

I could get by with the torqueless wonder car, but it wasn't comfortable
at all. It was quite scary at times when I had to rely on the competence
of other drivers when some sloth had screwed things up making it
impossible for me to be at the speed I needed to be at when I needed to
be there. There just wasn't enough margin.

If people in this nation (USA) drove properly there wouldn't be a
safety need for horsepower as much as there is. But since they don't,
horsepower and torque are damn good things to have.

On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 18:39:31 GMT, laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
> wrote:

>
>http://www.planetark.org/dailynewsst...5270/story.htm
>
>JAPAN: February 23, 2006
>
>TOKYO - Honda Motor Co. plans to sell a low-cost hybrid car, a version
>of its popular Fit subcompact, a Japanese daily reported, signalling
>the auto maker's long-term commitment to the fuel-sipping powertrain.
>
I'll buy one if it can pull my Bass Boat.


>Japan's third-biggest auto maker aims to sell the Fit hybrid as early
>as next year for around 1.4 million yen ($11,790), or about 200,000
>yen more than the gasoline-only version, likely making it the world's
>first hybrid to cost less than 2 million yen ($16,840), the leading
>Japanese business daily said on Wednesday.
>The model could be launched in the business year starting April 2007
>and would be sold globally, the paper said.
>
>A spokesman denied Honda had made any decision on whether to hybridise
>the Fit, but added it had the technological wherewithal to mount its
>hybrid system, which twins an electric motor and a conventional engine
>to save fuel, on most of its vehicles.
>
>Chief Executive Takeo Fukui has long said the price premium for a
>hybrid over a gasoline-only car needs to fall below 200,000 yen
>($1,680) for the powertrain to go mainstream.
>
>With hybrid systems still costing auto makers - and customers -
>thousands of dollars, Fukui has said Honda had not made a strategic
>decision yet to produce the gasoline-electric vehicles in big volumes,
>unlike rival Toyota Motor Corp., which has aggressively promoted their
>proliferation.
>
>A decision to offer a hybrid version of the mass-volume Fit - Honda's
>best-selling model in Japan and due to debut in the United States soon
>- would suggest the auto maker is a step closer to committing to the
>powertrain longer-term.
>
>Honda also sells hybrid versions of its two best-selling cars, the
>Accord and Civic, at a premium of around 300,000 yen ($2,525). Its
>hybrid-only Insight coupe was the first gasoline-electric car to be
>sold in the United States.
>
>Honda is developing a smaller motor and battery to reduce the hybrid's
>cost and weight, the Nihon Keizai said. It will twin the hybrid unit
>with a one-litre engine for the Fit, the paper added.
>
>Toyota also aims to halve the production and selling cost of a hybrid
>system. It currently sells many of its hybrid models at a premium of
>around 500,000 yen ($4,200).
>
>Honda, Toyota and Ford Motor Co. are so far the world's sole
>mass-producers of hybrid passenger cars. Laggards like General Motors
>Corp. argue that hybrid systems are most suitable for large vehicles
>due to the added weight from the extra components.
>
>Compact cars are also generally fuel-efficient to begin with, and the
>extra cost of a hybrid car may be more difficult to justify, depending
>on how much can be saved at the pump.
>
>The newspaper said the Fit hybrid would have fuel economy comparable
>to that of the Honda Insight and Toyota Prius, which the auto makers
>advertise in Japan as getting around 35-36 km to a litre (82-84 miles
>per gallon).
>
>The most fuel-efficient gasoline-only Fit, with a 1.3-litre engine and
>continuous variable transmission, gets 24 km to a litre (56 miles per
>gallon).
>
>(US$1=118.78 yen)
>

--
"The president and I cannot prevent certain politicians from losing
their memory, or their backbone, but we're not going to sit by and
let them rewrite history." -- Dick Cheney 11/16/2005

"War is God's way of teaching Americans geography" -- Ambrose Bierce

"America is a vast conspiracy to make you happy." -- John Updike

"Long term commitment in relationships is only necessary because it takes
so damn long to raise children. Marriage may well be some kind of trick
to keep the males around beyond sexual satiation." -- Captain Compassion

"Progress is the increasing control of the environment by life.
--Will Durant

Joseph R. Darancette

On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 20:33:33 -0600,
(Brent P) wrote:

>In article >, SD Dave wrote:
>
>> There's always the guy who thinks that everyone's in a race. Some
>> people just need a car to get them and their stuff around, and not for
>> the penis extension needs you seem to feel people shop for.
>
>The problem is a safety one. When I am stuck behind merge impared morons
>who think that mergining into 80mph traffic at 35mph or stopping at the
>end of an on ramp is a good idea I need horsepower to make a safe
>double-merge. The more horsepower the easier it becomes to deal with
>situations like this.
>
>I could get by with the torqueless wonder car, but it wasn't comfortable
>at all. It was quite scary at times when I had to rely on the competence
>of other drivers when some sloth had screwed things up making it
>impossible for me to be at the speed I needed to be at when I needed to
>be there. There just wasn't enough margin.
>
>If people in this nation (USA) drove properly there wouldn't be a
>safety need for horsepower as much as there is. But since they don't,
>horsepower and torque are damn good things to have.

You can drive perfectly safely without tons of horsepower. 106 seems
to be enough, attached to a light enough car.

I rarely can find an interchange that won't allow me to get up to at
least 65 mph before I'm merging with traffic. Hell, at 65 even I
often have to slow down to meet the speed of the truck-filled right
lane.

If you like having a fast car, great, enjoy. I just don't see why
some people bitch endlessly about someone else buying a car that's
fuel efficient.

My point was that to some people, a reasonably safe, cheap to
maintain, reliable, cheap on gas car is something they're willing to
sacrifice a bit of acceleration for.

Dave

SD Dave > wrote:

>On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 22:05:22 GMT, (B1ackwater) wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 15:59:32 -0500, "Mike T." >
>>wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"B1ackwater" > wrote in message
. ..
>>>> On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 18:39:31 GMT, laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>http://www.planetark.org/dailynewsst...5270/story.htm
>>>>>JAPAN: February 23, 2006
>>>>>
>>>>>TOKYO - Honda Motor Co. plans to sell a low-cost hybrid car, a version
>>>>>of its popular Fit subcompact, a Japanese daily reported, signalling
>>>>>the auto maker's long-term commitment to the fuel-sipping powertrain.
>>>>
>>>> Zero to fifty in 2.1 hours ?
>>>>
>>>
>>>No, we won't get the fuel-efficient version in North America. If we did,
>>>the MSRP would be $17 - $18 grand (much higher than the sub $12 grand
>>>mentioned in the subject). Instead, Honda will sell the 1.5 liter version.
>>>It won't be a speed demon, but it will be a good short-distance commuter.
>>>Again, it will probably MSRP for about $17 grand. -Dave
>>
>> Moped performance at Saturn prices ... I guess *some* people
>> will buy. There's always a self-superior segment who likes to
>> rub everyone elses nose in their ecological consciousness.
>
>There's always the guy who thinks that everyone's in a race. Some
>people just need a car to get them and their stuff around, and not for
>the penis extension needs you seem to feel people shop for.

You underestimate the human spirit. It's more than a 'penis
extention' ... it's pleasure in POWER.

>> I'd suggest building cool-looking UNCONVENTIONAL vehicles -
>> that just happen to get really good mileage.
>
>You mean niche vehicles most people don't want to drive?

Depends on the vehicle, doesn't it ?

>> For example :
>>
>> http://www.triking-cyclecars.co.uk/i...dcar_small.gif
>
>Looks too low to be safe, and can't have much storage space at all.
>
>> http://morgan3w.de/temp/homepage051027.jpg
>
>Might as well get a motorcycle.
>
>> and ESPECIALLY the "Carver" :
>> http://www.carver-europe.com/home.htm
>>
>> video :
>> http://www.metacafe.com/watch/41431/...l_carR/wfd_201
>>
>> Such things can save you lots of gas AND be incredibly cool
>> and peppy at the same time.
>
>40 mpg, the Carver web site claims. Just marginally more than my
>non-hybrid Honda. It looks like a fun toy, but nothing more.

The 'prototype' Carvers use a relatively BIG engine. More
conservative versions - STILL fun - are in the pipeline.

Oh yea, 40 MPG is NOT insignificant ... look at the real-world
mileage of the vehicles most people ARE driving.

SD Dave > wrote:

>On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 20:33:33 -0600,
>(Brent P) wrote:
>
>>In article >, SD Dave wrote:
>>
>>> There's always the guy who thinks that everyone's in a race. Some
>>> people just need a car to get them and their stuff around, and not for
>>> the penis extension needs you seem to feel people shop for.
>>
>>The problem is a safety one. When I am stuck behind merge impared morons
>>who think that mergining into 80mph traffic at 35mph or stopping at the
>>end of an on ramp is a good idea I need horsepower to make a safe
>>double-merge. The more horsepower the easier it becomes to deal with
>>situations like this.
>>
>>I could get by with the torqueless wonder car, but it wasn't comfortable
>>at all. It was quite scary at times when I had to rely on the competence
>>of other drivers when some sloth had screwed things up making it
>>impossible for me to be at the speed I needed to be at when I needed to
>>be there. There just wasn't enough margin.
>>
>>If people in this nation (USA) drove properly there wouldn't be a
>>safety need for horsepower as much as there is. But since they don't,
>>horsepower and torque are damn good things to have.
>
>You can drive perfectly safely without tons of horsepower.

"Safe" ... is for chickens and cattle. We're PEOPLE and we
demand something more exciting.

>106 seems to be enough, attached to a light enough car.

It's OK ...

>I rarely can find an interchange that won't allow me to get up to at
>least 65 mph before I'm merging with traffic. Hell, at 65 even I
>often have to slow down to meet the speed of the truck-filled right
>lane.

Yea, but you'd better have a lot of RESERVE, just in case.

>If you like having a fast car, great, enjoy. I just don't see why
>some people bitch endlessly about someone else buying a car that's
>fuel efficient.

Because they SUCK, that's why. No joy for the spirit.

However, as noted, we CAN have our proverbial cake and
eat it too.

>My point was that to some people, a reasonably safe, cheap to
>maintain, reliable, cheap on gas car is something they're willing to
>sacrifice a bit of acceleration for.

A bit ... but they STILL aren't so castrated that they'll
buy lots of GoreMobiles.