Death Wobble

I now have several tool boxes divided up by project for just that reason in
addition to the main handtool box.. It does lead to duplication of some
common tools but I would rather have two 19 inch tool boxes than one 26
incher I couldn't lift.

Every time I go the Sears I look at those roll-away tool boxes with
extendable handles but then..... how would I get them in and out of the
Jeep?


"Will Honea" > wrote in message
...
> Well, I bought my 15mm pieces to work on an old VW bug - that I
> remember as I had to buy metric wrenches for the first time. And I
> still use the 36mm required for bugs but I also recall that I didn't
> run into an 18mm for several years after that and I had to get one to
> work on the Japanese 4-banger that Chrysler used in their first
> minivans. I think by now I have complete sets of them in 1/4, 3/8,
> 1/2, impact, open/combos, you name it. Funny how what used to be a
> carry-around tool box has evolved into a roll-around chest I couldn't
> lift on a bet!
>
> On Mon, 9 Oct 2006 20:16:23 UTC RoyJ > wrote:
>
>> The older European standards for socket wrench sets did not include
>> eithe 18 or 15 mm as "standard". Leave it to Ford and others to make
>> sure that none of the bolts they use can be dealt with by a European
>> based set.
>>
>> Will Honea wrote:
>> > Typical selection - 16, 17, 19mm. Go to Sears and buy both an 18mm
>> > wrench and socket. If that's not the size you need now, you'll need
>> > it eventually. Same thing for 15mm - a lot of cheaper sets leave that
>> > one out as well.
>> >
>> > On Mon, 9 Oct 2006 02:22:44 UTC "billy ray" >
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >>We banged on the damper for a while but couldn't get the tapered bolt
>> >>out.
>> >>What kind of puller should we have used if we could find one on Sunday
>> >>afternoon....
>> >>
>> >>The other end requires two 18 mm wrenches We had two 17s and two 19s
>> >>but no
>> >>18s.....
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>"swbell" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >>
>> >>>Tire balance and the steering damper are the causes. I wouldn't think
>> >>>twice
>> >>>about changing the damper, then go to a reputable tire shop. Have
>> >>>them
>> >>>check the tires for out-of-round, and spin balance and rotate.
>> >>>
>> >>>Frequent tire rotation is an absolute must for Jeep owners. I do it
>> >>>every
>> >>>three months, and have them spin balanced too. It's been worth the
>> >>>money.
>> >>>
>> >>>The stock damper is pretty lame. You'll be changing it sooner or
>> >>>later
>> >>>anyway and they don't cost that much.
>> >>>
>> >>>If your dealer didn't know what was wrong, find somewhere else to take
>> >>>it.
>> >>>This is a very common problem.
>> >>>
>> >>>Paul Nelson
>> >>>http://www.kerygma.org/nelson
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>in article , Lloyd
>> >>>Hanning
>> >>>at
>> wrote on 10/8/06 5:35 PM:
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>>I've got an 04 Rubicon and it goes nuts too when I cross RR tracks or
>> >>>>a
>> >>>>weird bump. Seems it only happens when I'm doing 50 - 60. I have to
>> >>>>slow
>> >>>>down to 30 go keep it under control. The wobble stops, then I can
>> >>>>continue.
>> >>>>I've only got 15K on it, and I took it back to the dealer and he said
>> >>>>he
>> >>>>couldn't find anything wrong. I'm thinking about replacing the
>> >>>>steering
>> >>>>damper with a bigger one. Do you think that would help? If so, any
>> >>>>recommendations on what damper to get?
>> >>>>
>> >>>>Thanks
>> >>>>Lloyd
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>"billy ray" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>How common is death wobble on a bone stock 2WD XJ?.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>I have a friend who was trying to describe the XJs recent reaction
>> >>>>>to
>> >>>>>crossing the railroad tracks and all I could make of it was death
>> >>>>>wobble......
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>Am I missing something or what should I be looking at tomorrow?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>What I know:
>> >>>>>'96 XJ Classic 2WD, ~90k miles, 4 liter 3 speed automatic,. Kelly
>> >>>>>Celebrity tires mounted and balanced 2 years ago, not aligned at
>> >>>>>that
>> >>>>>time (old tires had no odd wear), condition of shocks unknown,
>> >>>>>condition
>> >>>>>of suspension unknown. Brakes and rotors new - DW existed before
>> >>>>>the
>> >>>>>brake job)
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>Jeeps seems to be otherwise in good shape the 'dw like' sensation
>> >>>>>only
>> >>>>>mentioned as an afterthought within a different conversation last
>> >>>>>night.
>> >>>>>I don't know if this is the first instance or a recurring problem.
>> >>>>>(I
>> >>>>>suspect it is not a common occurrence on this Jeep as it has never
>> >>>>>been
>> >>>>>mentioned before)
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>I will be looking at this over the weekend. Anything in particular,
>> >>>>>other
>> >>>>>than the above, that I should look for?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>
>
> --
> Will Honea

Hi Mike,
You miss a lot of the action by being satisfied with nine inch
wide, thirty twos, the tempt the hand of fait going twelve inches wide.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
http://www.billhughes.com/

Mike Romain wrote:
>
> How can you folks put up with broken Jeeps so early in their lives?
> Losing control on RR tracks is just plain insanity and any vehicle that
> does that should be taken off the road.
>
> A steering damper shock is there to make the steering less twitchy when
> it hits ruts or rocks or has to do a fast maneuver.
>
> For the Jeep to go into a 'death wobble', something must be broke!
>
> You either have a bad tie rod end, a bad ball joint, a bad wheel
> bearing, a bad track bar end, either the bushing or it's ball joint, a
> bad bushing on a control arm or a broken belt in a tire, an out of round
> tire or a really out of balance tire.
>
> To put a 'bigger' steering shock on is only an attempt to mask the
> symptoms of a potentially deadly problem.
>
> Hint: It isn't called 'The Death Wobble' for nothing....
>
> I would be freaking out on the service manager and taking him for a
> drive to show him.
>
> I just figured out that in the 10 years I have owned my CJ7, it has
> never even 'had' a steering damper shock. There is only an empty tube
> there with a rod flopping around inside it.
>
> When I first bought it it was dangerous and unacceptable to drive due to
> the death wobble. I said screw that and 'fixed' it by replacing the
> worn out steering parts like tie rod ends and ball joints. Never even
> thought of changing the steering shock.
>
> My steering is still great....
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

Hi John,
Familiarize yourself with their names:
http://www.billhughes.com/temp/TJalignment.jpg
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O


John in Vegas wrote:
>
> Fixing the death wobble on my JEEP was easy, getting someone to tell me why it
> happened wasnt so easy. It was the link that holds the axle from going side to
> side (forgot what they call it). It was the connection at the axle which was
> loose. If you catch it early enough, it wont make the bolt hole egg shaped. Just
> tighten up the link, if I remember correctly, it takes a big torx.
>
> John in Vegas

i'd check your steering stablizer or front shocks.
does the steering wheel get all goofy when you hit a bump as well?


Lloyd Hanning wrote:
> I've got an 04 Rubicon and it goes nuts too when I cross RR tracks or a
> weird bump. Seems it only happens when I'm doing 50 - 60. I have to slow
> down to 30 go keep it under control. The wobble stops, then I can continue.
> I've only got 15K on it, and I took it back to the dealer and he said he
> couldn't find anything wrong. I'm thinking about replacing the steering
> damper with a bigger one. Do you think that would help? If so, any
> recommendations on what damper to get?
>
> Thanks
> Lloyd
>
>
> "billy ray" > wrote in message
> ...
> > How common is death wobble on a bone stock 2WD XJ?.
> >
> > I have a friend who was trying to describe the XJs recent reaction to
> > crossing the railroad tracks and all I could make of it was death
> > wobble......
> >
> > Am I missing something or what should I be looking at tomorrow?
> >
> > What I know:
> > '96 XJ Classic 2WD, ~90k miles, 4 liter 3 speed automatic,. Kelly
> > Celebrity tires mounted and balanced 2 years ago, not aligned at that
> > time (old tires had no odd wear), condition of shocks unknown, condition
> > of suspension unknown. Brakes and rotors new - DW existed before the
> > brake job)
> >
> > Jeeps seems to be otherwise in good shape the 'dw like' sensation only
> > mentioned as an afterthought within a different conversation last night.
> > I don't know if this is the first instance or a recurring problem. (I
> > suspect it is not a common occurrence on this Jeep as it has never been
> > mentioned before)
> >
> > I will be looking at this over the weekend. Anything in particular, other
> > than the above, that I should look for?
> >

Yep, the dealer said "everything was okay". The stabilizer doesn't look all
that big, so maybe a bigger one will help?
No, the steering wheel doesn't go goofy, just starts to shake/wobble and it
increases if I don't slow down NOW.
The one problem is I can't get the jeep to do it all the time.
I went out Sunday and my buddy and I took my camcorder with us. I rode over
the SAME bumps and RR tracks that a week ago make the jeep go nuts.
But I couldn't make it do it no matter what speed or condition I tried! I
KNOW my jeep had the "death wobble" many times but my buddy thinks I'm nuts.
Now I know what people who get abducted by aliens feel like!

Lloyd

"batty505" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> i'd check your steering stablizer or front shocks.
> does the steering wheel get all goofy when you hit a bump as well?
>
>
> Lloyd Hanning wrote:
>> I've got an 04 Rubicon and it goes nuts too when I cross RR tracks or a
>> weird bump. Seems it only happens when I'm doing 50 - 60. I have to slow
>> down to 30 go keep it under control. The wobble stops, then I can
>> continue.
>> I've only got 15K on it, and I took it back to the dealer and he said he
>> couldn't find anything wrong. I'm thinking about replacing the steering
>> damper with a bigger one. Do you think that would help? If so, any
>> recommendations on what damper to get?
>>
>> Thanks
>> Lloyd
>>
>>
>> "billy ray" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > How common is death wobble on a bone stock 2WD XJ?.
>> >
>> > I have a friend who was trying to describe the XJs recent reaction to
>> > crossing the railroad tracks and all I could make of it was death
>> > wobble......
>> >
>> > Am I missing something or what should I be looking at tomorrow?
>> >
>> > What I know:
>> > '96 XJ Classic 2WD, ~90k miles, 4 liter 3 speed automatic,. Kelly
>> > Celebrity tires mounted and balanced 2 years ago, not aligned at that
>> > time (old tires had no odd wear), condition of shocks unknown,
>> > condition
>> > of suspension unknown. Brakes and rotors new - DW existed before the
>> > brake job)
>> >
>> > Jeeps seems to be otherwise in good shape the 'dw like' sensation only
>> > mentioned as an afterthought within a different conversation last
>> > night.
>> > I don't know if this is the first instance or a recurring problem. (I
>> > suspect it is not a common occurrence on this Jeep as it has never been
>> > mentioned before)
>> >
>> > I will be looking at this over the weekend. Anything in particular,
>> > other
>> > than the above, that I should look for?
>> >
>

Lloyd Hanning wrote:
> Yep, the dealer said "everything was okay". The stabilizer doesn't
> look all that big, so maybe a bigger one will help?
> No, the steering wheel doesn't go goofy, just starts to shake/wobble
> and it increases if I don't slow down NOW.
> The one problem is I can't get the jeep to do it all the time.
> I went out Sunday and my buddy and I took my camcorder with us. I
> rode over the SAME bumps and RR tracks that a week ago make the jeep
> go nuts. But I couldn't make it do it no matter what speed or condition I
> tried! I KNOW my jeep had the "death wobble" many times but my buddy
> thinks I'm nuts. Now I know what people who get abducted by aliens
> feel like!

Your buddy was adding weight to the vehicle and that changes how
the suspension reacts. The ZJ wouldn't DW with a passenger either.
You almost need someone to follow you and have their passenger run
the camcorder. (or possibly have them sit directly behind you)

Did the dealer check your wheel balance? That's a big cause of DW.

--
DougW

best part about this place is that you will correct me if/when im wrong. nice diagram.

And remember, real JEEPs have very few JEEP parts on them, and I think those parts are
frame, body and vin tag.

John in Vegas

"L.W.(Bill) Hughes III" wrote:

> Hi John,
> Familiarize yourself with their names:
> http://www.billhughes.com/temp/TJalignment.jpg
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
>
>
> John in Vegas wrote:
> >
> > Fixing the death wobble on my JEEP was easy, getting someone to tell me why it
> > happened wasnt so easy. It was the link that holds the axle from going side to
> > side (forgot what they call it). It was the connection at the axle which was
> > loose. If you catch it early enough, it wont make the bolt hole egg shaped. Just
> > tighten up the link, if I remember correctly, it takes a big torx.
> >
> > John in Vegas

for all you guys saying the stabilizer, let me say this. I don't have one, my
front only shakes because of bent rims, bad tires or something else that is bent
or broke. If you have the "DEATH WOBBLE", fix the problem, not cover it up. It
WILL get progressively worse! As for the shocks, they would only be dampening an
existing problem.

John in Vegas

batty505 wrote:

> i'd check your steering stablizer or front shocks.
> does the steering wheel get all goofy when you hit a bump as well?
>
> Lloyd Hanning wrote:
> > I've got an 04 Rubicon and it goes nuts too when I cross RR tracks or a
> > weird bump. Seems it only happens when I'm doing 50 - 60. I have to slow
> > down to 30 go keep it under control. The wobble stops, then I can continue.
> > I've only got 15K on it, and I took it back to the dealer and he said he
> > couldn't find anything wrong. I'm thinking about replacing the steering
> > damper with a bigger one. Do you think that would help? If so, any
> > recommendations on what damper to get?
> >
> > Thanks
> > Lloyd
> >
> >
> > "billy ray" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > How common is death wobble on a bone stock 2WD XJ?.
> > >
> > > I have a friend who was trying to describe the XJs recent reaction to
> > > crossing the railroad tracks and all I could make of it was death
> > > wobble......
> > >
> > > Am I missing something or what should I be looking at tomorrow?
> > >
> > > What I know:
> > > '96 XJ Classic 2WD, ~90k miles, 4 liter 3 speed automatic,. Kelly
> > > Celebrity tires mounted and balanced 2 years ago, not aligned at that
> > > time (old tires had no odd wear), condition of shocks unknown, condition
> > > of suspension unknown. Brakes and rotors new - DW existed before the
> > > brake job)
> > >
> > > Jeeps seems to be otherwise in good shape the 'dw like' sensation only
> > > mentioned as an afterthought within a different conversation last night.
> > > I don't know if this is the first instance or a recurring problem. (I
> > > suspect it is not a common occurrence on this Jeep as it has never been
> > > mentioned before)
> > >
> > > I will be looking at this over the weekend. Anything in particular, other
> > > than the above, that I should look for?
> > >

Do me a favor and check the track bar (thanks bill), it is loose. Same thing
with mine, but if you catch it early enough there wont be too much damage to
the bolt holes.

John in Vegas

Lloyd Hanning wrote:

> Yep, the dealer said "everything was okay". The stabilizer doesn't look all
> that big, so maybe a bigger one will help?
> No, the steering wheel doesn't go goofy, just starts to shake/wobble and it
> increases if I don't slow down NOW.
> The one problem is I can't get the jeep to do it all the time.
> I went out Sunday and my buddy and I took my camcorder with us. I rode over
> the SAME bumps and RR tracks that a week ago make the jeep go nuts.
> But I couldn't make it do it no matter what speed or condition I tried! I
> KNOW my jeep had the "death wobble" many times but my buddy thinks I'm nuts.
> Now I know what people who get abducted by aliens feel like!
>
> Lloyd
>
> "batty505" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> > i'd check your steering stablizer or front shocks.
> > does the steering wheel get all goofy when you hit a bump as well?
> >
> >
> > Lloyd Hanning wrote:
> >> I've got an 04 Rubicon and it goes nuts too when I cross RR tracks or a
> >> weird bump. Seems it only happens when I'm doing 50 - 60. I have to slow
> >> down to 30 go keep it under control. The wobble stops, then I can
> >> continue.
> >> I've only got 15K on it, and I took it back to the dealer and he said he
> >> couldn't find anything wrong. I'm thinking about replacing the steering
> >> damper with a bigger one. Do you think that would help? If so, any
> >> recommendations on what damper to get?
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> Lloyd
> >>
> >>
> >> "billy ray" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> > How common is death wobble on a bone stock 2WD XJ?.
> >> >
> >> > I have a friend who was trying to describe the XJs recent reaction to
> >> > crossing the railroad tracks and all I could make of it was death
> >> > wobble......
> >> >
> >> > Am I missing something or what should I be looking at tomorrow?
> >> >
> >> > What I know:
> >> > '96 XJ Classic 2WD, ~90k miles, 4 liter 3 speed automatic,. Kelly
> >> > Celebrity tires mounted and balanced 2 years ago, not aligned at that
> >> > time (old tires had no odd wear), condition of shocks unknown,
> >> > condition
> >> > of suspension unknown. Brakes and rotors new - DW existed before the
> >> > brake job)
> >> >
> >> > Jeeps seems to be otherwise in good shape the 'dw like' sensation only
> >> > mentioned as an afterthought within a different conversation last
> >> > night.
> >> > I don't know if this is the first instance or a recurring problem. (I
> >> > suspect it is not a common occurrence on this Jeep as it has never been
> >> > mentioned before)
> >> >
> >> > I will be looking at this over the weekend. Anything in particular,
> >> > other
> >> > than the above, that I should look for?
> >> >
> >

Agreed, wifey's 04 TJL has a Mercedes steering box.

"John in Vegas" > wrote in message
...
> best part about this place is that you will correct me if/when im wrong.
> nice diagram.
>
> And remember, real JEEPs have very few JEEP parts on them, and I think
> those parts are
> frame, body and vin tag.
>
> John in Vegas
>
> "L.W.(Bill) Hughes III" wrote:
>
>> Hi John,
>> Familiarize yourself with their names:
>> http://www.billhughes.com/temp/TJalignment.jpg
>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
>>
>>
>> John in Vegas wrote:
>> >
>> > Fixing the death wobble on my JEEP was easy, getting someone to tell me
>> > why it
>> > happened wasnt so easy. It was the link that holds the axle from going
>> > side to
>> > side (forgot what they call it). It was the connection at the axle
>> > which was
>> > loose. If you catch it early enough, it wont make the bolt hole egg
>> > shaped. Just
>> > tighten up the link, if I remember correctly, it takes a big torx.
>> >
>> > John in Vegas
>