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#71
January 12th 05, 11:07 PM
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On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 17:54:14 GMT, "jaybird" > wrote:
>> >> Jaybird, I an curious. Do you think that speeding is rare? > >I was mainly poking fun of Alex's nit-picking over a fraction of an inch of >tire height. If a person is speeding, they're speeding no matter how many >rabbits you can pull out of your hat in front of the judge. > >In my experience speeding in excess is rare. People going about 5 over the >limit is not because that's what people think they can get away with. Hmm - I've never gotten a speeding ticket for less than 17 over the limit. 
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#72
January 12th 05, 11:07 PM
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"Olaf Gustafson" > wrote in message ... > On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 17:54:14 GMT, "jaybird" > wrote: > >>> >>> Jaybird, I an curious. Do you think that speeding is rare? >> >>I was mainly poking fun of Alex's nit-picking over a fraction of an inch >>of >>tire height. If a person is speeding, they're speeding no matter how many >>rabbits you can pull out of your hat in front of the judge. >> >>In my experience speeding in excess is rare. People going about 5 over >>the >>limit is not because that's what people think they can get away with. > > Hmm - I've never gotten a speeding ticket for less than 17 over the > limit. So enlighten us on your point. Are you agreeing, disagreeing, just throwing the info out..........? -- --- jaybird --- I am not the cause of your problems. My actions are the result of your actions. Your life is not my fault.
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#73
January 12th 05, 11:07 PM
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"Olaf Gustafson" > wrote in message ... > On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 17:54:14 GMT, "jaybird" > wrote: > >>> >>> Jaybird, I an curious. Do you think that speeding is rare? >> >>I was mainly poking fun of Alex's nit-picking over a fraction of an inch >>of >>tire height. If a person is speeding, they're speeding no matter how many >>rabbits you can pull out of your hat in front of the judge. >> >>In my experience speeding in excess is rare. People going about 5 over >>the >>limit is not because that's what people think they can get away with. > > Hmm - I've never gotten a speeding ticket for less than 17 over the > limit. So enlighten us on your point. Are you agreeing, disagreeing, just throwing the info out..........? -- --- jaybird --- I am not the cause of your problems. My actions are the result of your actions. Your life is not my fault.
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#75
January 13th 05, 04:14 AM
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In article >, says...
>"Alex Rodriguez" > wrote in message ... >> In article >, says... >> >>>"Bernard Farquart" > wrote in message >>>news:l4UEd.11191$ig7.6580@trnddc04... >>>> "jaybird" > wrote in message >>>> ... >>>>> >>>>> Or you should just quit speeding.  )>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> --- >>>>> jaybird >>>> >>>> >>>> Jaybird, I an curious. Do you think that speeding is rare? >>> >>>I was mainly poking fun of Alex's nit-picking over a fraction of an inch >>>of >>>tire height. If a person is speeding, they're speeding no matter how many >>>rabbits you can pull out of your hat in front of the judge. >>> >>>In my experience speeding in excess is rare. People going about 5 over >>>the >>>limit is not because that's what people think they can get away with. >> >> How about about more than 5mph? I usually see most drivers doing well >> over >> the the limit + 5. This of course is during good conditions. During poor >> conditions drivers will be at, or below, the speed limit. > >You can "what if" it all day long. This is not a 'what if' situation. This is a fact. I see it all the time when I drive on the interstate. >If someone is driving more than 5 over, >then they're doing so at a greater risk but are comfortable with the fact >that they won't be caught or are willing to deal with the consequences if >they do. Does that explain your speeding? >>>> If you do not, why is that? Is it possible that speed limits are >>>> not properly set, or is it that most (close to all) drivers are >>>> miscreant lawbreakers with no regard for public good? >>> >>>I don't think it's either one. >>>I think it's inherent in human nature to push limits. >> >> If you don't push the limit, you will never find the limit. Most drivers >> who do push the limit, will back off when they find that it is a true >> limit, >> not one set up to raise revenue. That the interstate limits are almost >> universally ignored is proof that they are not properly set. When >> properly >> set, by definition 85% of the driver will be obeying the limit. You will >> probably chime in that drivers don't know when they need to slow down. >> Once >> again this is proven wrong all the time. Most drivers will slow down when >> the weather changes for the worse. They will drive under the speed limit >> when the condition are bad. There will be a few people, probably the ones >> acustomed to the poorly set limits, who think the speed limit is the >> recommended speed to drive at under all conditions. Those are the folks >> who >> need more driver training. Unfortunately the system is not set up to get >> them the much needed training. It is set to reward them because they >> follow >> the signs. > >I know that your opinion is different. We've been over this same argument >several times already. We aren't driving for the individual, we're driving >as a society and everyone has to make accomodations for everyone else >they're sharing the road with. No my opinion is not different. Neither is that of traffic engineers who all agree that you need to set speed limits at the 85th% speed. That is for the good of all society. Unfortunately it is not done that way quite often. >>>We see it everyday in everything we do. I've never been >>>opposed to good drivers being allowed to drive at their skill level, but >>>then I'm not the one who makes the laws. Unfortunately we're stuck with a >>>lot of stupid people we have to compete with on the road. >> >> We shouldn't have to dumb down everything to the level of the incompetent >> folks. We should be trying to get the poor drivers more training to get >> their skills up to higher levels. By doing that you benefit all road >> users. >> By dumbing down the laws you are actually making the roads less safe. > >I don't agree that by tightening traffic laws it makes it less safe, but I >do agree that we need more driver training, stricter standards, less >distractions in the vehicle, etc. Dumbing down laws is not tightening traffic laws. Far from it. If anything it is encouraging bad drivers. >>>> Really, I am serious since this is the basis for most of the >>>> interaction between you and the regulars here. >>>> What is your perspective? >>> >>>While I know that it isn't a popular opinion in here, I truly think that >>>speed plays an important factor in vehicle collisions. I also think that >>>people will push limits to the point they think they can get away with it. >> >> When you treat people like children, they will act like children. When >> you >> treat an adult like a child, they will have less respect for you. When >> you say adults will try to do what they think they can get away with, you >> are treating them like children. > >If you don't think that adults push limits, then I can't help you understand >my point any better. I'm sorry, I didn't create the human mind. You'll >have to take that up with someone else. Adults do push limits. If you don't, you will never know your limits. The important part is to know when it is appropriate and when it is not. It is also important to recognize when you are driving beyond your driving skills. This is something that comes with experience. You don't seem to believe that experience counts for anything. >>>It is true that speed, in itself with no other factors present, does not >>>kill. However, there are an infinite number of factors involved while >>>driving a vehicle on our roadways. >> >> A decent driver will take the many factors into account when they decide >> how fast they will drive down the road. People can make the right >> decisions, >> and for the most part they do. That our death rate is as low as it is is >> evidence of that. If the powers that be made more decisions based on >> making roads safer rather than basig their deicisions on how they can make >> more money to spend on pet projects, the death rate would be even lower. > >I don't agree that's the answer to the problem, but then again I don't think >we've ever agreed on this topic. I don't think that'll ever change. You want to treat everyone like children instead of like adults. So, no I will never agree with that. ------------- Alex
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#76
January 13th 05, 05:12 AM
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"jaybird" > wrote in message ... > > "Bernard Farquart" > wrote in message > news:l4UEd.11191$ig7.6580@trnddc04... >> >> "jaybird" > wrote in message >> ... >>> >>> Or you should just quit speeding. )>>> >>> -- >>> --- >>> jaybird >> >> >> Jaybird, I an curious. Do you think that speeding is rare? > > I was mainly poking fun of Alex's nit-picking over a fraction of an inch > of tire height. If a person is speeding, they're speeding no matter how > many rabbits you can pull out of your hat in front of the judge. > > In my experience speeding in excess is rare. People going about 5 over > the limit is not because that's what people think they can get away with. > Or they feel perfectly safe doing so due to years of experience >> >> If you do not, why is that? Is it possible that speed limits are >> not properly set, or is it that most (close to all) drivers are >> miscreant lawbreakers with no regard for public good? > > I don't think it's either one. I think it's inherent in human nature to > push limits. We see it everyday in everything we do. I've never been > opposed to good drivers being allowed to drive at their skill level, but > then I'm not the one who makes the laws. Unfortunately we're stuck with a > lot of stupid people we have to compete with on the road. Thank you for a reasonable response, I figured you had it in you. > >> >> Really, I am serious since this is the basis for most of the >> interaction between you and the regulars here. >> What is your perspective? > > While I know that it isn't a popular opinion in here, I truly think that > speed plays an important factor in vehicle collisions. I also think that > people will push limits to the point they think they can get away with it. > It is true that speed, in itself with no other factors present, does not > kill. However, there are an infinite number of factors involved while > driving a vehicle on our roadways. > Speed obviously makes an accident *worse* but the error that causes the accident is not going to be the speed, it is a seperate event. Wouldn't it be cool if we could focus our enforcement toward weeding the "stupid people" off the road? Bernard
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#77
January 13th 05, 05:12 AM
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"jaybird" > wrote in message ... > > "Bernard Farquart" > wrote in message > news:l4UEd.11191$ig7.6580@trnddc04... >> >> "jaybird" > wrote in message >> ... >>> >>> Or you should just quit speeding. )>>> >>> -- >>> --- >>> jaybird >> >> >> Jaybird, I an curious. Do you think that speeding is rare? > > I was mainly poking fun of Alex's nit-picking over a fraction of an inch > of tire height. If a person is speeding, they're speeding no matter how > many rabbits you can pull out of your hat in front of the judge. > > In my experience speeding in excess is rare. People going about 5 over > the limit is not because that's what people think they can get away with. > Or they feel perfectly safe doing so due to years of experience >> >> If you do not, why is that? Is it possible that speed limits are >> not properly set, or is it that most (close to all) drivers are >> miscreant lawbreakers with no regard for public good? > > I don't think it's either one. I think it's inherent in human nature to > push limits. We see it everyday in everything we do. I've never been > opposed to good drivers being allowed to drive at their skill level, but > then I'm not the one who makes the laws. Unfortunately we're stuck with a > lot of stupid people we have to compete with on the road. Thank you for a reasonable response, I figured you had it in you. > >> >> Really, I am serious since this is the basis for most of the >> interaction between you and the regulars here. >> What is your perspective? > > While I know that it isn't a popular opinion in here, I truly think that > speed plays an important factor in vehicle collisions. I also think that > people will push limits to the point they think they can get away with it. > It is true that speed, in itself with no other factors present, does not > kill. However, there are an infinite number of factors involved while > driving a vehicle on our roadways. > Speed obviously makes an accident *worse* but the error that causes the accident is not going to be the speed, it is a seperate event. Wouldn't it be cool if we could focus our enforcement toward weeding the "stupid people" off the road? Bernard
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#78
January 13th 05, 05:24 AM
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"Alex Rodriguez" > wrote in message ... > In article >, says... > >>"Alex Rodriguez" > wrote in message .. . >>> In article >, says... >>> >>>>"Bernard Farquart" > wrote in message >>>>news:l4UEd.11191$ig7.6580@trnddc04... >>>>> "jaybird" > wrote in message >>>>> ... >>>>>> >>>>>> Or you should just quit speeding. )>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> --- >>>>>> jaybird >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Jaybird, I an curious. Do you think that speeding is rare? >>>> >>>>I was mainly poking fun of Alex's nit-picking over a fraction of an inch >>>>of >>>>tire height. If a person is speeding, they're speeding no matter how >>>>many >>>>rabbits you can pull out of your hat in front of the judge. >>>> >>>>In my experience speeding in excess is rare. People going about 5 over >>>>the >>>>limit is not because that's what people think they can get away with. >>> >>> How about about more than 5mph? I usually see most drivers doing well >>> over >>> the the limit + 5. This of course is during good conditions. During >>> poor >>> conditions drivers will be at, or below, the speed limit. >> >>You can "what if" it all day long. > > This is not a 'what if' situation. This is a fact. I see it all the time > when I drive on the interstate. We all see speeding on the interstate. That doesn't change the thread. > >>If someone is driving more than 5 over, >>then they're doing so at a greater risk but are comfortable with the fact >>that they won't be caught or are willing to deal with the consequences if >>they do. > > Does that explain your speeding? My speeding? Which part of my speeding are you talking about, when I'm off duty, which I don't do, or when I'm on duty which I'm exempt from? > >>>>> If you do not, why is that? Is it possible that speed limits are >>>>> not properly set, or is it that most (close to all) drivers are >>>>> miscreant lawbreakers with no regard for public good? >>>> >>>>I don't think it's either one. >>>>I think it's inherent in human nature to push limits. >>> >>> If you don't push the limit, you will never find the limit. Most >>> drivers >>> who do push the limit, will back off when they find that it is a true >>> limit, >>> not one set up to raise revenue. That the interstate limits are almost >>> universally ignored is proof that they are not properly set. When >>> properly >>> set, by definition 85% of the driver will be obeying the limit. You >>> will >>> probably chime in that drivers don't know when they need to slow down. >>> Once >>> again this is proven wrong all the time. Most drivers will slow down >>> when >>> the weather changes for the worse. They will drive under the speed >>> limit >>> when the condition are bad. There will be a few people, probably the >>> ones >>> acustomed to the poorly set limits, who think the speed limit is the >>> recommended speed to drive at under all conditions. Those are the folks >>> who >>> need more driver training. Unfortunately the system is not set up to >>> get >>> them the much needed training. It is set to reward them because they >>> follow >>> the signs. >> >>I know that your opinion is different. We've been over this same argument >>several times already. We aren't driving for the individual, we're >>driving >>as a society and everyone has to make accomodations for everyone else >>they're sharing the road with. > > No my opinion is not different. Neither is that of traffic engineers who > all > agree that you need to set speed limits at the 85th% speed. That is for > the > good of all society. Unfortunately it is not done that way quite often. Again, it's your opinion. The 85th percentile is not the sole factor for setting speed limits. > >>>>We see it everyday in everything we do. I've never been >>>>opposed to good drivers being allowed to drive at their skill level, but >>>>then I'm not the one who makes the laws. Unfortunately we're stuck with >>>>a >>>>lot of stupid people we have to compete with on the road. >>> >>> We shouldn't have to dumb down everything to the level of the >>> incompetent >>> folks. We should be trying to get the poor drivers more training to get >>> their skills up to higher levels. By doing that you benefit all road >>> users. >>> By dumbing down the laws you are actually making the roads less safe. >> >>I don't agree that by tightening traffic laws it makes it less safe, but I >>do agree that we need more driver training, stricter standards, less >>distractions in the vehicle, etc. > > Dumbing down laws is not tightening traffic laws. Far from it. If > anything > it is encouraging bad drivers. Dumbing down, in effect, tightens traffic law. If everyone drove perfectly then there wouldn't be a need for it. > >>>>> Really, I am serious since this is the basis for most of the >>>>> interaction between you and the regulars here. >>>>> What is your perspective? >>>> >>>>While I know that it isn't a popular opinion in here, I truly think that >>>>speed plays an important factor in vehicle collisions. I also think >>>>that >>>>people will push limits to the point they think they can get away with >>>>it. >>> >>> When you treat people like children, they will act like children. When >>> you >>> treat an adult like a child, they will have less respect for you. When >>> you say adults will try to do what they think they can get away with, >>> you >>> are treating them like children. >> >>If you don't think that adults push limits, then I can't help you >>understand >>my point any better. I'm sorry, I didn't create the human mind. You'll >>have to take that up with someone else. > > Adults do push limits. If you don't, you will never know your limits. > The important part is to know when it is appropriate and when it is not. > It is also important to recognize when you are driving beyond your driving > skills. This is something that comes with experience. You don't seem > to believe that experience counts for anything. Experience counts for a whole lot. Some people don't learn from their experience very well. > >>>>It is true that speed, in itself with no other factors present, does not >>>>kill. However, there are an infinite number of factors involved while >>>>driving a vehicle on our roadways. >>> >>> A decent driver will take the many factors into account when they decide >>> how fast they will drive down the road. People can make the right >>> decisions, >>> and for the most part they do. That our death rate is as low as it is >>> is >>> evidence of that. If the powers that be made more decisions based on >>> making roads safer rather than basig their deicisions on how they can >>> make >>> more money to spend on pet projects, the death rate would be even lower. >> >>I don't agree that's the answer to the problem, but then again I don't >>think >>we've ever agreed on this topic. I don't think that'll ever change. > > You want to treat everyone like children instead of like adults. So, no > I will never agree with that. I had no doubt that you'd ever agree with me. I was just expressing why things are the way they are. -- --- jaybird --- I am not the cause of your problems. My actions are the result of your actions. Your life is not my fault.
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#79
January 13th 05, 05:24 AM
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"Alex Rodriguez" > wrote in message ... > In article >, says... > >>"Alex Rodriguez" > wrote in message .. . >>> In article >, says... >>> >>>>"Bernard Farquart" > wrote in message >>>>news:l4UEd.11191$ig7.6580@trnddc04... >>>>> "jaybird" > wrote in message >>>>> ... >>>>>> >>>>>> Or you should just quit speeding. )>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> --- >>>>>> jaybird >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Jaybird, I an curious. Do you think that speeding is rare? >>>> >>>>I was mainly poking fun of Alex's nit-picking over a fraction of an inch >>>>of >>>>tire height. If a person is speeding, they're speeding no matter how >>>>many >>>>rabbits you can pull out of your hat in front of the judge. >>>> >>>>In my experience speeding in excess is rare. People going about 5 over >>>>the >>>>limit is not because that's what people think they can get away with. >>> >>> How about about more than 5mph? I usually see most drivers doing well >>> over >>> the the limit + 5. This of course is during good conditions. During >>> poor >>> conditions drivers will be at, or below, the speed limit. >> >>You can "what if" it all day long. > > This is not a 'what if' situation. This is a fact. I see it all the time > when I drive on the interstate. We all see speeding on the interstate. That doesn't change the thread. > >>If someone is driving more than 5 over, >>then they're doing so at a greater risk but are comfortable with the fact >>that they won't be caught or are willing to deal with the consequences if >>they do. > > Does that explain your speeding? My speeding? Which part of my speeding are you talking about, when I'm off duty, which I don't do, or when I'm on duty which I'm exempt from? > >>>>> If you do not, why is that? Is it possible that speed limits are >>>>> not properly set, or is it that most (close to all) drivers are >>>>> miscreant lawbreakers with no regard for public good? >>>> >>>>I don't think it's either one. >>>>I think it's inherent in human nature to push limits. >>> >>> If you don't push the limit, you will never find the limit. Most >>> drivers >>> who do push the limit, will back off when they find that it is a true >>> limit, >>> not one set up to raise revenue. That the interstate limits are almost >>> universally ignored is proof that they are not properly set. When >>> properly >>> set, by definition 85% of the driver will be obeying the limit. You >>> will >>> probably chime in that drivers don't know when they need to slow down. >>> Once >>> again this is proven wrong all the time. Most drivers will slow down >>> when >>> the weather changes for the worse. They will drive under the speed >>> limit >>> when the condition are bad. There will be a few people, probably the >>> ones >>> acustomed to the poorly set limits, who think the speed limit is the >>> recommended speed to drive at under all conditions. Those are the folks >>> who >>> need more driver training. Unfortunately the system is not set up to >>> get >>> them the much needed training. It is set to reward them because they >>> follow >>> the signs. >> >>I know that your opinion is different. We've been over this same argument >>several times already. We aren't driving for the individual, we're >>driving >>as a society and everyone has to make accomodations for everyone else >>they're sharing the road with. > > No my opinion is not different. Neither is that of traffic engineers who > all > agree that you need to set speed limits at the 85th% speed. That is for > the > good of all society. Unfortunately it is not done that way quite often. Again, it's your opinion. The 85th percentile is not the sole factor for setting speed limits. > >>>>We see it everyday in everything we do. I've never been >>>>opposed to good drivers being allowed to drive at their skill level, but >>>>then I'm not the one who makes the laws. Unfortunately we're stuck with >>>>a >>>>lot of stupid people we have to compete with on the road. >>> >>> We shouldn't have to dumb down everything to the level of the >>> incompetent >>> folks. We should be trying to get the poor drivers more training to get >>> their skills up to higher levels. By doing that you benefit all road >>> users. >>> By dumbing down the laws you are actually making the roads less safe. >> >>I don't agree that by tightening traffic laws it makes it less safe, but I >>do agree that we need more driver training, stricter standards, less >>distractions in the vehicle, etc. > > Dumbing down laws is not tightening traffic laws. Far from it. If > anything > it is encouraging bad drivers. Dumbing down, in effect, tightens traffic law. If everyone drove perfectly then there wouldn't be a need for it. > >>>>> Really, I am serious since this is the basis for most of the >>>>> interaction between you and the regulars here. >>>>> What is your perspective? >>>> >>>>While I know that it isn't a popular opinion in here, I truly think that >>>>speed plays an important factor in vehicle collisions. I also think >>>>that >>>>people will push limits to the point they think they can get away with >>>>it. >>> >>> When you treat people like children, they will act like children. When >>> you >>> treat an adult like a child, they will have less respect for you. When >>> you say adults will try to do what they think they can get away with, >>> you >>> are treating them like children. >> >>If you don't think that adults push limits, then I can't help you >>understand >>my point any better. I'm sorry, I didn't create the human mind. You'll >>have to take that up with someone else. > > Adults do push limits. If you don't, you will never know your limits. > The important part is to know when it is appropriate and when it is not. > It is also important to recognize when you are driving beyond your driving > skills. This is something that comes with experience. You don't seem > to believe that experience counts for anything. Experience counts for a whole lot. Some people don't learn from their experience very well. > >>>>It is true that speed, in itself with no other factors present, does not >>>>kill. However, there are an infinite number of factors involved while >>>>driving a vehicle on our roadways. >>> >>> A decent driver will take the many factors into account when they decide >>> how fast they will drive down the road. People can make the right >>> decisions, >>> and for the most part they do. That our death rate is as low as it is >>> is >>> evidence of that. If the powers that be made more decisions based on >>> making roads safer rather than basig their deicisions on how they can >>> make >>> more money to spend on pet projects, the death rate would be even lower. >> >>I don't agree that's the answer to the problem, but then again I don't >>think >>we've ever agreed on this topic. I don't think that'll ever change. > > You want to treat everyone like children instead of like adults. So, no > I will never agree with that. I had no doubt that you'd ever agree with me. I was just expressing why things are the way they are. -- --- jaybird --- I am not the cause of your problems. My actions are the result of your actions. Your life is not my fault.
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#80
January 13th 05, 05:26 AM
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"Bernard Farquart" > wrote in message news:9rnFd.12985$F97.3694@trnddc06... > > "jaybird" > wrote in message > ... >> >> "Bernard Farquart" > wrote in message >> news:l4UEd.11191$ig7.6580@trnddc04... >>> >>> "jaybird" > wrote in message >>> ... >>>> >>>> Or you should just quit speeding. )>>>> >>>> -- >>>> --- >>>> jaybird >>> >>> >>> Jaybird, I an curious. Do you think that speeding is rare? >> >> I was mainly poking fun of Alex's nit-picking over a fraction of an inch >> of tire height. If a person is speeding, they're speeding no matter how >> many rabbits you can pull out of your hat in front of the judge. >> >> In my experience speeding in excess is rare. People going about 5 over >> the limit is not because that's what people think they can get away with. >> > > Or they feel perfectly safe doing so due to years of experience > > >>> >>> If you do not, why is that? Is it possible that speed limits are >>> not properly set, or is it that most (close to all) drivers are >>> miscreant lawbreakers with no regard for public good? >> >> I don't think it's either one. I think it's inherent in human nature to >> push limits. We see it everyday in everything we do. I've never been >> opposed to good drivers being allowed to drive at their skill level, but >> then I'm not the one who makes the laws. Unfortunately we're stuck with >> a lot of stupid people we have to compete with on the road. > > Thank you for a reasonable response, I figured you had it in you. It's always been there. > >> >>> >>> Really, I am serious since this is the basis for most of the >>> interaction between you and the regulars here. >>> What is your perspective? >> >> While I know that it isn't a popular opinion in here, I truly think that >> speed plays an important factor in vehicle collisions. I also think that >> people will push limits to the point they think they can get away with >> it. It is true that speed, in itself with no other factors present, does >> not kill. However, there are an infinite number of factors involved >> while driving a vehicle on our roadways. >> > > Speed obviously makes an accident *worse* but the error that causes the > accident is not going to be the speed, it is a seperate event. > > Wouldn't it be cool if we could focus our enforcement toward > weeding the "stupid people" off the road? It would be very cool. I'd be all for it. -- --- jaybird --- I am not the cause of your problems. My actions are the result of your actions. Your life is not my fault.
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