Tire Questions: Steel-belted vs. not, USA vs. Europe, Car vs. Motorcycle

I am attempting to make home-made bicycle tires, and so I am researching
what types of metals are used. There's not a lot of info available on
that, so I switched to looking at what was used in car tires.

On this page is such a discussion:
http://www.craftkb.com/Uwe/Forum.asp...l-belted-tires
or
http://tinyurl.com/3w68zsq

About 1/3 of the way down, someone named "werty" mentions that unlike
nearly-all US car tires, [most] European car tires do not use steel
belts, and the other posters who responded after don't argue with that
claim. Being a lifelong US resident, I found this rather surprising--I
just assumed that pretty much all car tires everywhere were steel-belted
now, except for vintage/repro tires that were still made as cord
bias-ply, for vintage vehicles that were intended to use those tires.

There's also lots of comparisons between the handling of radial vs.
bias-ply car tires, but not any comparisons of the different handling
characteristics of steel-belted radial vs. textile-belted radial tires
that I could turn up. Anybody know of any online? Most other drivers
wouldn't care, but I'd expect that autocross racers must have looked
into it.



When I began to search for info on textile-belted radial tires, many of
the results I got were for motorcycle tires. I never owned a motorcycle,
so I don't know anything about buying tires for one.... But from
searching for just a bit, it seeps apparent that even in the USA,
motorcycle tires are commonly available both ways, but I could not find
any clear divisions between the uses. That is to say--sport bike tires
aren't typically used on a cruising/touring motorcycle, and touring
tires aren't used on an off-road-only motorcycle. Are the tire
construction methods of each of these three types usually one particular
way? That is [for example] are sportbike tires usually textile-belted,
and touring tires usually steel-belted?



Also I am curious as to if there's any tires out there made totally of
Kevlar/aramid... This article from 1975 notes that Kevlar was the
strongest and highest-temperature fiber to use for tires, but at the
time it was too expensive for regular use.
http://books.google.com/books?id=AQE...page&q&f=false
or
http://tinyurl.com/42ur7a9

The patents on Kevlar have expired and similar aramid fibers are
avaialble from various companies now (Dyneema, Spectra, Vectran, ect).
Aramid fiber isn't exactly cheap, but it is a lot cheaper than it used
to be. Is any tire company using it for the whole casing?




There is currently at least one radial bicycle tire, the Maxxis Radiale.
It is closer to being a "radial" than any other bicycle tire sold right
now, but it's not a true radial construction like car tires use. I read
a few different reviews of it, but none seem to indicate any clear
advantages or disadvantages. ....Are there any?

DougC wrote:
> I am attempting to make home-made bicycle tires, and so I am researching
> what types of metals are used. There's not a lot of info available on
> that, so I switched to looking at what was used in car tires.
>
> On this page is such a discussion:
> http://www.craftkb.com/Uwe/Forum.asp...l-belted-tires
>
> or
> http://tinyurl.com/3w68zsq
>
> About 1/3 of the way down, someone named "werty" mentions that unlike
> nearly-all US car tires, [most] European car tires do not use steel
> belts, and the other posters who responded after don't argue with that
> claim. Being a lifelong US resident, I found this rather surprising--I
> just assumed that pretty much all car tires everywhere were steel-belted
> now, except for vintage/repro tires that were still made as cord
> bias-ply, for vintage vehicles that were intended to use those tires.
>
> There's also lots of comparisons between the handling of radial vs.
> bias-ply car tires, but not any comparisons of the different handling
> characteristics of steel-belted radial vs. textile-belted radial tires
> that I could turn up. Anybody know of any online? Most other drivers
> wouldn't care, but I'd expect that autocross racers must have looked
> into it.
>
>
>
> When I began to search for info on textile-belted radial tires, many of
> the results I got were for motorcycle tires. I never owned a motorcycle,
> so I don't know anything about buying tires for one.... But from
> searching for just a bit, it seeps apparent that even in the USA,
> motorcycle tires are commonly available both ways, but I could not find
> any clear divisions between the uses. That is to say--sport bike tires
> aren't typically used on a cruising/touring motorcycle, and touring
> tires aren't used on an off-road-only motorcycle. Are the tire
> construction methods of each of these three types usually one particular
> way? That is [for example] are sportbike tires usually textile-belted,
> and touring tires usually steel-belted?
>
>
>
> Also I am curious as to if there's any tires out there made totally of
> Kevlar/aramid... This article from 1975 notes that Kevlar was the
> strongest and highest-temperature fiber to use for tires, but at the
> time it was too expensive for regular use.
> http://books.google.com/books?id=AQE...page&q&f=false
>
> or
> http://tinyurl.com/42ur7a9
>
> The patents on Kevlar have expired and similar aramid fibers are
> avaialble from various companies now (Dyneema, Spectra, Vectran, ect).
> Aramid fiber isn't exactly cheap, but it is a lot cheaper than it used
> to be. Is any tire company using it for the whole casing?
>
>
>
>
> There is currently at least one radial bicycle tire, the Maxxis Radiale.
> It is closer to being a "radial" than any other bicycle tire sold right
> now, but it's not a true radial construction like car tires use. I read
> a few different reviews of it, but none seem to indicate any clear
> advantages or disadvantages. ....Are there any?
>


I can't help with most of that except to say that radial
bicycle tires suck. No matter how you slice it, bicycles
don't have four wheels. Two wheel vehicles are a completely
different thing from cars as regards tire design.

Please see also:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tires.html

Here's the closest thing to an all-aramid ti
http://www.panaracer.com/new/lineup/urban/urban_1.html



--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

GOOGLE SHOULD ANSWER if you 'optimize' the search words.
Vectran, for example, is woven polyester.

steel belted motorcycle tires came in several years ago ?

steel keeps the tire round with decreased inflation, increased
reliability to puncture. With roundness comes increased fuel economy
as there's less all types deformation at and around and in the
contact surface areas. Deformation casues friction, release of heat
( degrading the original rubber spec) and thus releasing forward
moment energy. The sum of that should produce a good touring bicycle
tire but at cycle speeds steel isnt necessary, Vectran will do even
over kevlar, working with kevlar I understand may be a PITA.

With reduced inflation, the contact surface finds time to move over
the surface not ride on road top increasing grip and 'feel,' while not
decreasing fuel economy due to ahhhhh deformation.

Kool ! a french idea in manufacture. Also the loom and textiles.

On 7/23/2011 9:28 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> ....
> I can't help with most of that except to say that radial bicycle tires
> suck. No matter how you slice it, bicycles don't have four wheels. Two
> wheel vehicles are a completely different thing from cars as regards
> tire design.
>
> ...

Yea, but that does not follow what many many people say about road-going
motorcycle tires, which are commonly available both ways, and are used
on both modern and vintage motorcycles.

> http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/to...?TOPIC_ID=6102

Even on vintage bikes pre-dating radial tires it is typically observed
that putting radial tires on improves the handling significantly... If
you can find radials that will fit, that is.

On Jul 23, 1:59*pm, DougC > wrote:
> On 7/23/2011 9:28 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>
> > ....
> > I can't help with most of that except to say that radial bicycle tires
> > suck. No matter how you slice it, bicycles don't have four wheels. Two
> > wheel vehicles are a completely different thing from cars as regards
> > tire design.
>
> > ...
>
> Yea, but that does not follow what many many people say about road-going
> motorcycle tires, which are commonly available both ways, and are used
> on both modern and vintage motorcycles.
>
> >http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/to...?TOPIC_ID=6102
>
> Even on vintage bikes pre-dating radial tires it is typically observed
> that putting radial tires on improves the handling significantly... If
> you can find radials that will fit, that is.

as with lubricants, bicyclings slowness, lack of heat, forward motive
force on contact patch, and light weight, move the bicycle platform
away from logical deductions or extrapolations from IC or motorcycle
design. ?

In article >,
DougC > wrote:

> On 7/23/2011 9:28 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> > ....
> > I can't help with most of that except to say that radial bicycle tires
> > suck. No matter how you slice it, bicycles don't have four wheels. Two
> > wheel vehicles are a completely different thing from cars as regards
> > tire design.
> >
> > ...
>
> Yea, but that does not follow what many many people say about road-going
> motorcycle tires, which are commonly available both ways, and are used
> on both modern and vintage motorcycles.
>
> > http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/to...?TOPIC_ID=6102
>
> Even on vintage bikes pre-dating radial tires it is typically observed
> that putting radial tires on improves the handling significantly... If
> you can find radials that will fit, that is.

A pneumatic tire has subtle geometry.
Inflation of the tire changes its shape.
The correct bias ply tire shrinks as it
is inflated making it less likely to blow
off the rim. A radial ply tire does not
behave this way. A radial ply tire must
be constrained otherwise. Typically it
is constrained with a steel belt running
circumferentially beneath the tread.

--
Michael Press

On 7/23/2011 9:28 AM, A. Muzi wrote:
>
> I can't help with most of that except to say that radial bicycle tires
> suck. No matter how you slice it, bicycles don't have four wheels. Two
> wheel vehicles are a completely different thing from cars as regards
> tire design.[...]

However, trikes have 3 wheels.

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731°N, 83.985007°W
I am a vehicular cyclist.