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Ford does it *again* (more fires)



 
 
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  #21  
Old June 19th 05, 07:37 PM
Headlight Oiler
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http://www.boycottford.com/Default.a...&sid=329189314
>
>Daniel J. Stern wrote:
>> http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/06/16/for...les/index.html
>>
>> I'd say it's unbelievable, but it's not. Ford's got a long and, uh,
>> glowing track record of this kind of stupid ****. What's novel about this
>> one is the cause: this time it's not poorly-designed alternators or
>> poorly-designed ignition switches or poorly-designed transmission parking
>> pawls or poorly-designed fan clutches or poorly-designed gas tanks causing
>> Fords to be deathboxes. This time, it's the cruise control deactivation
>> switch that causes parked, unattended, switched-off Fords to
>> self-immolate.
>>
>> Yishk.
>>
>> DS

>
>I guess I haven't run across this specific Ford brake switch but it
>sounds like it measures *brake fluid pressure* -- assuming that the
>report is accurate. If this is true, why don't they use a momentary NO
>switch on the brake pedal (mechanically) like everyone else? And I'm
>not trying to sound smarter than Ford engineers, but seriously, to
>activate the brake lights, signal the ECM of braking, and/or cut cruise
>operation -- I would much rather monitor brake pedal motion. It would
>be fine and dandy to have a pressure transducer AS WELL, for double
>checking purposes. If a transducer were to fail it would pose a low
>current, 5 volt threat to the brake fluid only with the key on verses a
>12 volt 10-20 amp fused circuit hot at all times. What gives?
>
>Toyota MDT in MO

////////
But you are smarter in a way ! They want your car back in there
service bay for repairs. $$$$


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  #22  
Old June 19th 05, 07:49 PM
Headlight Oiler
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http://www.boycottford.com/Default.a...&sid=329189314
>
>
>Comboverfish wrote:
>
>> I guess I haven't run across this specific Ford brake switch but it
>> sounds like it measures *brake fluid pressure* -- assuming that the
>> report is accurate. If this is true, why don't they use a momentary NO
>> switch on the brake pedal (mechanically) like everyone else? And I'm
>> not trying to sound smarter than Ford engineers, but seriously, to
>> activate the brake lights, signal the ECM of braking, and/or cut cruise
>> operation -- I would much rather monitor brake pedal motion. It would
>> be fine and dandy to have a pressure transducer AS WELL, for double
>> checking purposes. If a transducer were to fail it would pose a low
>> current, 5 volt threat to the brake fluid only with the key on verses a
>> 12 volt 10-20 amp fused circuit hot at all times. What gives?
>>
>> Toyota MDT in MO

>
>Actually they do monitor the brake pedal postion to turn off
>the cruise control. The switch in the brake line is a
>redundnat safety feature. It opens if the pressure in the
>line is above 125 psi. The switch is used on most Fords, but
>only certain model trucks seem to be fire prone. For some
>reason, in some vehicles, the power feed to the switch is
>live all the time. In other vehicles it is switched. In all
>cases it is fused (7.5 amp fuse in some/most/all cases?). I
>have no idea why they use a live feed in some vehicles. I
>also don't really understand the failure mechanism. It is
>alledged that only a certain batch of switches is bad. Who
>knows. I have already seen one report where someone was
>caught torching his house and trying to blame it on his
>truck. Until the story broke, there were only a few cases in
>the NHTSA database. After the first stories, the number of
>complaints sky rocketed. Supposedly a sure sign of a problem
>is a cruise control that stops working.
>
>Is brake fluid especially flammable? I thought it was not
>easy to ignite. Shouldn't a 7.5 amp fuse be sufficient to
>prevent a fire in the wiring? Seems like a weird one to me.
>I'd hate to have to explain the live feed to the switch.
>
>Regards,
>
>Ed White

////////////
Was someone bypassing the fuse links ? This is very common.




"Fix it now or pay later"
  #23  
Old June 20th 05, 02:45 AM
Paul
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On Sun, 19 Jun 2005 14:35:10 -0400, Headlight Oiler , said the following
in rec.autos.driving...

> http:// <url removed>


That site has nothing to do with the alledged safety defects of ford
vehicles that started this thread and everything to do with a bunch of
religious nazis trying to silence anyone who disagrees with them (look at
who is sponsoring the page - the American Family Association).
  #24  
Old June 20th 05, 03:37 AM
Brent P
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In article ch.edu>, Daniel J. Stern wrote:
>
> http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/06/16/for...les/index.html
>
> I'd say it's unbelievable, but it's not. Ford's got a long and, uh,
> glowing track record of this kind of stupid ****. What's novel about this
> one is the cause: this time it's not poorly-designed alternators or
> poorly-designed ignition switches or poorly-designed transmission parking
> pawls or poorly-designed fan clutches or poorly-designed gas tanks causing
> Fords to be deathboxes. This time, it's the cruise control deactivation
> switch that causes parked, unattended, switched-off Fords to
> self-immolate.


This is not a new story and you've ranted on it before as I recall.


  #25  
Old June 20th 05, 01:47 PM
C. E. White
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Nate Nagel wrote:
>
> Daniel J. Stern wrote:
> > On Fri, 17 Jun 2005, Comboverfish wrote:
> >
> >
> >>I guess I haven't run across this specific Ford brake switch but it
> >>sounds like it measures *brake fluid pressure*

> >
> >
> > Yep. The rest of the domestic auto industry figured out it was
> > unnecessarily problematic to detect brake application with a hydraulic
> > pressure switch...in 1961 or so.

>
> Oddly enough every single car I own uses a pressure-type brake light
> switch, at least two of which have hot feeds all the time.


One possible difference is that the brake light switches are
normally open while the offensive Ford Cruise Control switch
is normally closed.

Ed
  #26  
Old June 20th 05, 11:48 PM
James C. Reeves
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I'd bet it's probably more the designer's decision for esthetics to use
single combo marker/front lights over separate fixtures.


  #27  
Old June 21st 05, 01:32 AM
Nate Nagel
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C. E. White wrote:
>
> Nate Nagel wrote:
>
>>Daniel J. Stern wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 17 Jun 2005, Comboverfish wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>I guess I haven't run across this specific Ford brake switch but it
>>>>sounds like it measures *brake fluid pressure*
>>>
>>>
>>>Yep. The rest of the domestic auto industry figured out it was
>>>unnecessarily problematic to detect brake application with a hydraulic
>>>pressure switch...in 1961 or so.

>>
>>Oddly enough every single car I own uses a pressure-type brake light
>>switch, at least two of which have hot feeds all the time.

>
>
> One possible difference is that the brake light switches are
> normally open while the offensive Ford Cruise Control switch
> is normally closed.
>
> Ed


Who in their right mind would use a NC switch on an always-hot circuit?
Doesn't that drain the battery?

nate

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  #28  
Old June 21st 05, 01:43 AM
Daniel J. Stern
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On Mon, 20 Jun 2005, James C. Reeves wrote:

> I'd bet it's probably more the designer's decision for esthetics to use
> single combo marker/front lights over separate fixtures.


Combo/separate is not the question at hand. The question at hand is
separate-flashing vs. separate-nonflashing.
  #29  
Old June 21st 05, 03:07 AM
Brent P
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In article <1119313942.02dd87dc3c843bf3f44c94b68fafb0e0@teran ews>, Nate Nagel wrote:

> Who in their right mind would use a NC switch on an always-hot circuit?
> Doesn't that drain the battery?


Looking at the '97 mustang wiring diagram. It seems to be always hot
because it's fed with the same power source as the switch on the brake
pedal. This switch (the pedal mounted one) also powers the brake lamps.

Thusly, because the brake lamps are an always on circuit, so are both
brake switches. The switch is normally closed.

And I quote:

"Redundant safety device used to deactivate speed control system. Under
increased brake pedal pressure (5-10lbs), switch will _open_ and remove
power power from the amplifier"

This is from the mustang wiring diagram book, 1997, page 31-2.

I am begining to think I should just replace this with a jumper wire. Not
that I use the cruise control, ever. I've had this car since new, I don't
even know if the cruise even works.


 




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