help! 95 XJ - growl at 40+ mph

Wife's 95 XJ - I6, automatic transmission

Previously there was a clicking at low speed and growl at higher speed,
inspection showed that both front axle U-joints were bad..... replaced them
this weekend (big thanks to Mike R. for the 'sacrificial bolt' trick and
Bill Hughes for http://www.4x4wire.com/tech/axle/ujoint/ - in the past I
managed to break 2 vises trying to do the receiver socket and press socket
trick - I don't care what Bill does with farm animals, or his grammatical
skills - he replies frequently and provides good links).

Went for a test drive after changing u-joints - immediately heard a clicking
noise (similar to a bad u-joint sound) - drive shaft joints showed no slop
when shafts are rocked back and forth. Over 40 mph and a growl is heard from
transmission area, shifting into neutral does not effect the noise, shifting
into 4 wheel drive increases the noise. Transmission fluid level is good and
no discoloration.

In 2 wheel drive if pressure is put on the transfer case shift lever, the
sound varies slightly - small vibration can be felt through the shift lever.

??????????

thanks
paul

DOH!!!!
transfer case was VERY low on fluid,,,, apparent leak towards front. Is
there a seal that needs to be replaced? How difficult of a job is it?

thanks again
paul


"paul" > wrote in message
...
> Wife's 95 XJ - I6, automatic transmission
>
> Previously there was a clicking at low speed and growl at higher speed,
> inspection showed that both front axle U-joints were bad..... replaced
> them this weekend (big thanks to Mike R. for the 'sacrificial bolt' trick
> and Bill Hughes for http://www.4x4wire.com/tech/axle/ujoint/ - in the past
> I managed to break 2 vises trying to do the receiver socket and press
> socket trick - I don't care what Bill does with farm animals, or his
> grammatical skills - he replies frequently and provides good links).
>
> Went for a test drive after changing u-joints - immediately heard a
> clicking noise (similar to a bad u-joint sound) - drive shaft joints
> showed no slop when shafts are rocked back and forth. Over 40 mph and a
> growl is heard from transmission area, shifting into neutral does not
> effect the noise, shifting into 4 wheel drive increases the noise.
> Transmission fluid level is good and no discoloration.
>
> In 2 wheel drive if pressure is put on the transfer case shift lever, the
> sound varies slightly - small vibration can be felt through the shift
> lever.
>
> ??????????
>
> thanks
> paul
>

Double DOH and a YIKES!

Drained remaining fluid (less than a quart came out) noticed some very small
metal fines near the drain plug.
Added fluid and went for a test drive -- low speed click is still noticable,
growl is worse and vehicle is jerking when put into full time 4 wheel drive.

This is sounding serious (translate $$$$) any ideas?

thanks
paul

"paul" > wrote in message
...
> DOH!!!!
> transfer case was VERY low on fluid,,,, apparent leak towards front. Is
> there a seal that needs to be replaced? How difficult of a job is it?
>
> thanks again
> paul
>
>
> "paul" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Wife's 95 XJ - I6, automatic transmission
>>
>> Previously there was a clicking at low speed and growl at higher speed,
>> inspection showed that both front axle U-joints were bad..... replaced
>> them this weekend (big thanks to Mike R. for the 'sacrificial bolt' trick
>> and Bill Hughes for http://www.4x4wire.com/tech/axle/ujoint/ - in the
>> past I managed to break 2 vises trying to do the receiver socket and
>> press socket trick - I don't care what Bill does with farm animals, or
>> his grammatical skills - he replies frequently and provides good links).
>>
>> Went for a test drive after changing u-joints - immediately heard a
>> clicking noise (similar to a bad u-joint sound) - drive shaft joints
>> showed no slop when shafts are rocked back and forth. Over 40 mph and a
>> growl is heard from transmission area, shifting into neutral does not
>> effect the noise, shifting into 4 wheel drive increases the noise.
>> Transmission fluid level is good and no discoloration.
>>
>> In 2 wheel drive if pressure is put on the transfer case shift lever, the
>> sound varies slightly - small vibration can be felt through the shift
>> lever.
>>
>> ??????????
>>
>> thanks
>> paul
>>
>
>

Take the transfer case apart and see what is wrong with it. "Apparent leak
towards front" could be front output shaft or less likely input shaft.
Input shaft is inside the housing bolted to the transmission, and less
likely to leak, but you should try to find the exact source before removing
the transfer case. I don't know the exact capacity of the Selec-Trac case,
but Command-Trac is only one to one point five quarts, depending on model.
That means that you "probably" didn't damage the transfer case with low
fluid.

I imagine that there is gear or differential damage or at least something
expensive, but if you stop driving it immediately you may prevent the case
from grenading.

Earle

"paul" > wrote in message
...
> Double DOH and a YIKES!
>
> Drained remaining fluid (less than a quart came out) noticed some very
small
> metal fines near the drain plug.
> Added fluid and went for a test drive -- low speed click is still
noticable,
> growl is worse and vehicle is jerking when put into full time 4 wheel
drive.
>
> This is sounding serious (translate $$$$) any ideas?
>
> thanks
> paul
>
> "paul" > wrote in message
> ...
> > DOH!!!!
> > transfer case was VERY low on fluid,,,, apparent leak towards front. Is
> > there a seal that needs to be replaced? How difficult of a job is it?
> >
> > thanks again
> > paul
> >
> >
> > "paul" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> Wife's 95 XJ - I6, automatic transmission
> >>
> >> Previously there was a clicking at low speed and growl at higher speed,
> >> inspection showed that both front axle U-joints were bad..... replaced
> >> them this weekend (big thanks to Mike R. for the 'sacrificial bolt'
trick
> >> and Bill Hughes for http://www.4x4wire.com/tech/axle/ujoint/ - in the
> >> past I managed to break 2 vises trying to do the receiver socket and
> >> press socket trick - I don't care what Bill does with farm animals, or
> >> his grammatical skills - he replies frequently and provides good
links).
> >>
> >> Went for a test drive after changing u-joints - immediately heard a
> >> clicking noise (similar to a bad u-joint sound) - drive shaft joints
> >> showed no slop when shafts are rocked back and forth. Over 40 mph and a
> >> growl is heard from transmission area, shifting into neutral does not
> >> effect the noise, shifting into 4 wheel drive increases the noise.
> >> Transmission fluid level is good and no discoloration.
> >>
> >> In 2 wheel drive if pressure is put on the transfer case shift lever,
the
> >> sound varies slightly - small vibration can be felt through the shift
> >> lever.
> >>
> >> ??????????
> >>
> >> thanks
> >> paul
> >>
> >
> >
>
>

You have 3 u-joints on the front driveshaft. I would remove that and
try driving it before I messed with the t-case.

Metal filings aren't a good sign though....

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

paul wrote:
>
> Double DOH and a YIKES!
>
> Drained remaining fluid (less than a quart came out) noticed some very small
> metal fines near the drain plug.
> Added fluid and went for a test drive -- low speed click is still noticable,
> growl is worse and vehicle is jerking when put into full time 4 wheel drive.
>
> This is sounding serious (translate $$$$) any ideas?
>
> thanks
> paul
>
> "paul" > wrote in message
> ...
> > DOH!!!!
> > transfer case was VERY low on fluid,,,, apparent leak towards front. Is
> > there a seal that needs to be replaced? How difficult of a job is it?
> >
> > thanks again
> > paul
> >
> >
> > "paul" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> Wife's 95 XJ - I6, automatic transmission
> >>
> >> Previously there was a clicking at low speed and growl at higher speed,
> >> inspection showed that both front axle U-joints were bad..... replaced
> >> them this weekend (big thanks to Mike R. for the 'sacrificial bolt' trick
> >> and Bill Hughes for http://www.4x4wire.com/tech/axle/ujoint/ - in the
> >> past I managed to break 2 vises trying to do the receiver socket and
> >> press socket trick - I don't care what Bill does with farm animals, or
> >> his grammatical skills - he replies frequently and provides good links).
> >>
> >> Went for a test drive after changing u-joints - immediately heard a
> >> clicking noise (similar to a bad u-joint sound) - drive shaft joints
> >> showed no slop when shafts are rocked back and forth. Over 40 mph and a
> >> growl is heard from transmission area, shifting into neutral does not
> >> effect the noise, shifting into 4 wheel drive increases the noise.
> >> Transmission fluid level is good and no discoloration.
> >>
> >> In 2 wheel drive if pressure is put on the transfer case shift lever, the
> >> sound varies slightly - small vibration can be felt through the shift
> >> lever.
> >>
> >> ??????????
> >>
> >> thanks
> >> paul
> >>
> >
> >

Mike,

Does he have three u-joints, or a CV joint and a single cross joint? The CV
joints have a centering gizmo that can make clicks and maybe growls when it
starts to go bad.

Earle

"Mike Romain" > wrote in message
...
> You have 3 u-joints on the front driveshaft. I would remove that and
> try driving it before I messed with the t-case.
>
> Metal filings aren't a good sign though....
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> paul wrote:
> >
> > Double DOH and a YIKES!
> >
> > Drained remaining fluid (less than a quart came out) noticed some very
small
> > metal fines near the drain plug.
> > Added fluid and went for a test drive -- low speed click is still
noticable,
> > growl is worse and vehicle is jerking when put into full time 4 wheel
drive.
> >
> > This is sounding serious (translate $$$$) any ideas?
> >
> > thanks
> > paul
> >
> > "paul" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > DOH!!!!
> > > transfer case was VERY low on fluid,,,, apparent leak towards front.
Is
> > > there a seal that needs to be replaced? How difficult of a job is it?
> > >
> > > thanks again
> > > paul
> > >
> > >
> > > "paul" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > >> Wife's 95 XJ - I6, automatic transmission
> > >>
> > >> Previously there was a clicking at low speed and growl at higher
speed,
> > >> inspection showed that both front axle U-joints were bad.....
replaced
> > >> them this weekend (big thanks to Mike R. for the 'sacrificial bolt'
trick
> > >> and Bill Hughes for http://www.4x4wire.com/tech/axle/ujoint/ - in the
> > >> past I managed to break 2 vises trying to do the receiver socket and
> > >> press socket trick - I don't care what Bill does with farm animals,
or
> > >> his grammatical skills - he replies frequently and provides good
links).
> > >>
> > >> Went for a test drive after changing u-joints - immediately heard a
> > >> clicking noise (similar to a bad u-joint sound) - drive shaft joints
> > >> showed no slop when shafts are rocked back and forth. Over 40 mph and
a
> > >> growl is heard from transmission area, shifting into neutral does not
> > >> effect the noise, shifting into 4 wheel drive increases the noise.
> > >> Transmission fluid level is good and no discoloration.
> > >>
> > >> In 2 wheel drive if pressure is put on the transfer case shift lever,
the
> > >> sound varies slightly - small vibration can be felt through the shift
> > >> lever.
> > >>
> > >> ??????????
> > >>
> > >> thanks
> > >> paul
> > >>
> > >
> > >

Isn't it just a double cardan joint? That would be 2 U-joints in a
cage.

If the front u-joint(s) are bad, they can wreck the TC yoke seal from
vibration too.

Mike

Earle Horton wrote:
>
> Mike,
>
> Does he have three u-joints, or a CV joint and a single cross joint? The CV
> joints have a centering gizmo that can make clicks and maybe growls when it
> starts to go bad.
>
> Earle
>
> "Mike Romain" > wrote in message
> ...
> > You have 3 u-joints on the front driveshaft. I would remove that and
> > try driving it before I messed with the t-case.
> >
> > Metal filings aren't a good sign though....
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> >
> > paul wrote:
> > >
> > > Double DOH and a YIKES!
> > >
> > > Drained remaining fluid (less than a quart came out) noticed some very
> small
> > > metal fines near the drain plug.
> > > Added fluid and went for a test drive -- low speed click is still
> noticable,
> > > growl is worse and vehicle is jerking when put into full time 4 wheel
> drive.
> > >
> > > This is sounding serious (translate $$$$) any ideas?
> > >
> > > thanks
> > > paul
> > >
> > > "paul" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > DOH!!!!
> > > > transfer case was VERY low on fluid,,,, apparent leak towards front.
> Is
> > > > there a seal that needs to be replaced? How difficult of a job is it?
> > > >
> > > > thanks again
> > > > paul
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "paul" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > >> Wife's 95 XJ - I6, automatic transmission
> > > >>
> > > >> Previously there was a clicking at low speed and growl at higher
> speed,
> > > >> inspection showed that both front axle U-joints were bad.....
> replaced
> > > >> them this weekend (big thanks to Mike R. for the 'sacrificial bolt'
> trick
> > > >> and Bill Hughes for http://www.4x4wire.com/tech/axle/ujoint/ - in the
> > > >> past I managed to break 2 vises trying to do the receiver socket and
> > > >> press socket trick - I don't care what Bill does with farm animals,
> or
> > > >> his grammatical skills - he replies frequently and provides good
> links).
> > > >>
> > > >> Went for a test drive after changing u-joints - immediately heard a
> > > >> clicking noise (similar to a bad u-joint sound) - drive shaft joints
> > > >> showed no slop when shafts are rocked back and forth. Over 40 mph and
> a
> > > >> growl is heard from transmission area, shifting into neutral does not
> > > >> effect the noise, shifting into 4 wheel drive increases the noise.
> > > >> Transmission fluid level is good and no discoloration.
> > > >>
> > > >> In 2 wheel drive if pressure is put on the transfer case shift lever,
> the
> > > >> sound varies slightly - small vibration can be felt through the shift
> > > >> lever.
> > > >>
> > > >> ??????????
> > > >>
> > > >> thanks
> > > >> paul
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >

Some of them have a centering device inside the cage.

Earle

"Mike Romain" > wrote in message
...
> Isn't it just a double cardan joint? That would be 2 U-joints in a
> cage.
>
> If the front u-joint(s) are bad, they can wreck the TC yoke seal from
> vibration too.
>
> Mike
>
> Earle Horton wrote:
> >
> > Mike,
> >
> > Does he have three u-joints, or a CV joint and a single cross joint?
The CV
> > joints have a centering gizmo that can make clicks and maybe growls when
it
> > starts to go bad.
> >
> > Earle
> >
> > "Mike Romain" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > You have 3 u-joints on the front driveshaft. I would remove that and
> > > try driving it before I messed with the t-case.
> > >
> > > Metal filings aren't a good sign though....
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > > Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> > > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> > >
> > > paul wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Double DOH and a YIKES!
> > > >
> > > > Drained remaining fluid (less than a quart came out) noticed some
very
> > small
> > > > metal fines near the drain plug.
> > > > Added fluid and went for a test drive -- low speed click is still
> > noticable,
> > > > growl is worse and vehicle is jerking when put into full time 4
wheel
> > drive.
> > > >
> > > > This is sounding serious (translate $$$$) any ideas?
> > > >
> > > > thanks
> > > > paul
> > > >
> > > > "paul" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > > DOH!!!!
> > > > > transfer case was VERY low on fluid,,,, apparent leak towards
front.
> > Is
> > > > > there a seal that needs to be replaced? How difficult of a job is
it?
> > > > >
> > > > > thanks again
> > > > > paul
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "paul" > wrote in message
> > > > > ...
> > > > >> Wife's 95 XJ - I6, automatic transmission
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Previously there was a clicking at low speed and growl at higher
> > speed,
> > > > >> inspection showed that both front axle U-joints were bad.....
> > replaced
> > > > >> them this weekend (big thanks to Mike R. for the 'sacrificial
bolt'
> > trick
> > > > >> and Bill Hughes for http://www.4x4wire.com/tech/axle/ujoint/ - in
the
> > > > >> past I managed to break 2 vises trying to do the receiver socket
and
> > > > >> press socket trick - I don't care what Bill does with farm
animals,
> > or
> > > > >> his grammatical skills - he replies frequently and provides good
> > links).
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Went for a test drive after changing u-joints - immediately heard
a
> > > > >> clicking noise (similar to a bad u-joint sound) - drive shaft
joints
> > > > >> showed no slop when shafts are rocked back and forth. Over 40 mph
and
> > a
> > > > >> growl is heard from transmission area, shifting into neutral does
not
> > > > >> effect the noise, shifting into 4 wheel drive increases the
noise.
> > > > >> Transmission fluid level is good and no discoloration.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> In 2 wheel drive if pressure is put on the transfer case shift
lever,
> > the
> > > > >> sound varies slightly - small vibration can be felt through the
shift
> > > > >> lever.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> ??????????
> > > > >>
> > > > >> thanks
> > > > >> paul
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > >

Yes 3 u-joints on the front drive shaft (2 at transfer case end and 1 at
differential).
I will try disconnecting it and see what happens.
The filings are very small -- sliver like....... crossing fingers.

thanks
paul

"Mike Romain" > wrote in message
...
> You have 3 u-joints on the front driveshaft. I would remove that and
> try driving it before I messed with the t-case.
>
> Metal filings aren't a good sign though....
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> paul wrote:
>>
>> Double DOH and a YIKES!
>>
>> Drained remaining fluid (less than a quart came out) noticed some very
>> small
>> metal fines near the drain plug.
>> Added fluid and went for a test drive -- low speed click is still
>> noticable,
>> growl is worse and vehicle is jerking when put into full time 4 wheel
>> drive.
>>
>> This is sounding serious (translate $$$$) any ideas?
>>
>> thanks
>> paul
>>
>> "paul" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > DOH!!!!
>> > transfer case was VERY low on fluid,,,, apparent leak towards front. Is
>> > there a seal that needs to be replaced? How difficult of a job is it?
>> >
>> > thanks again
>> > paul
>> >
>> >
>> > "paul" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> >> Wife's 95 XJ - I6, automatic transmission
>> >>
>> >> Previously there was a clicking at low speed and growl at higher
>> >> speed,
>> >> inspection showed that both front axle U-joints were bad..... replaced
>> >> them this weekend (big thanks to Mike R. for the 'sacrificial bolt'
>> >> trick
>> >> and Bill Hughes for http://www.4x4wire.com/tech/axle/ujoint/ - in the
>> >> past I managed to break 2 vises trying to do the receiver socket and
>> >> press socket trick - I don't care what Bill does with farm animals, or
>> >> his grammatical skills - he replies frequently and provides good
>> >> links).
>> >>
>> >> Went for a test drive after changing u-joints - immediately heard a
>> >> clicking noise (similar to a bad u-joint sound) - drive shaft joints
>> >> showed no slop when shafts are rocked back and forth. Over 40 mph and
>> >> a
>> >> growl is heard from transmission area, shifting into neutral does not
>> >> effect the noise, shifting into 4 wheel drive increases the noise.
>> >> Transmission fluid level is good and no discoloration.
>> >>
>> >> In 2 wheel drive if pressure is put on the transfer case shift lever,
>> >> the
>> >> sound varies slightly - small vibration can be felt through the shift
>> >> lever.
>> >>
>> >> ??????????
>> >>
>> >> thanks
>> >> paul
>> >>
>> >
>> >

OK,
I removed the front drive shaft and the sounds was gone!!!!
BUT
if I put the transfer case into 4 wheel drive the sound returns....... so
I'm thinking that something to do with the front output???

For what it's worth, last winter when shifting into 4 wheel full time (this
is a Select-Trac NP242J) the shifting sequence goes thru 4 wheel part time
first and sometimes would want to 'hang' in part time, requiring a bit of a
yanking motion to engage full time 4 WD.

any more thoughts????

thank YOU
paul


"paul" > wrote in message
...
> Yes 3 u-joints on the front drive shaft (2 at transfer case end and 1 at
> differential).
> I will try disconnecting it and see what happens.
> The filings are very small -- sliver like....... crossing fingers.
>
> thanks
> paul
>
> "Mike Romain" > wrote in message
> ...
>> You have 3 u-joints on the front driveshaft. I would remove that and
>> try driving it before I messed with the t-case.
>>
>> Metal filings aren't a good sign though....
>>
>> Mike
>> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>>
>> paul wrote:
>>>
>>> Double DOH and a YIKES!
>>>
>>> Drained remaining fluid (less than a quart came out) noticed some very
>>> small
>>> metal fines near the drain plug.
>>> Added fluid and went for a test drive -- low speed click is still
>>> noticable,
>>> growl is worse and vehicle is jerking when put into full time 4 wheel
>>> drive.
>>>
>>> This is sounding serious (translate $$$$) any ideas?
>>>
>>> thanks
>>> paul
>>>
>>> "paul" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>> > DOH!!!!
>>> > transfer case was VERY low on fluid,,,, apparent leak towards front.
>>> > Is
>>> > there a seal that needs to be replaced? How difficult of a job is it?
>>> >
>>> > thanks again
>>> > paul
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > "paul" > wrote in message
>>> > ...
>>> >> Wife's 95 XJ - I6, automatic transmission
>>> >>
>>> >> Previously there was a clicking at low speed and growl at higher
>>> >> speed,
>>> >> inspection showed that both front axle U-joints were bad.....
>>> >> replaced
>>> >> them this weekend (big thanks to Mike R. for the 'sacrificial bolt'
>>> >> trick
>>> >> and Bill Hughes for http://www.4x4wire.com/tech/axle/ujoint/ - in the
>>> >> past I managed to break 2 vises trying to do the receiver socket and
>>> >> press socket trick - I don't care what Bill does with farm animals,
>>> >> or
>>> >> his grammatical skills - he replies frequently and provides good
>>> >> links).
>>> >>
>>> >> Went for a test drive after changing u-joints - immediately heard a
>>> >> clicking noise (similar to a bad u-joint sound) - drive shaft joints
>>> >> showed no slop when shafts are rocked back and forth. Over 40 mph and
>>> >> a
>>> >> growl is heard from transmission area, shifting into neutral does not
>>> >> effect the noise, shifting into 4 wheel drive increases the noise.
>>> >> Transmission fluid level is good and no discoloration.
>>> >>
>>> >> In 2 wheel drive if pressure is put on the transfer case shift lever,
>>> >> the
>>> >> sound varies slightly - small vibration can be felt through the shift
>>> >> lever.
>>> >>
>>> >> ??????????
>>> >>
>>> >> thanks
>>> >> paul
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>
>