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#1
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freon
I would like to find r12 substitute for my old a/c system.
Local stores in the LA area pep boys, auto Zone, etc, say I need a license to buy the environmentally safe stuff, yet is available online with no such requirement. Questions: Are there really any restrictions on the e-safe stuff? How do I get this into an old system? All the new cans appear to be the r134 screw on type, rather than the puncture top cans. I don't want to replace my valves because my old type pressure gauges will not work with the newer valves. What I would like is a filler hose with the newer type tap end for the can, and an attachment that can be used to fill my existing system thru the original valves on the compressor. This would enable me to use R134 leak detector, as well as envirosafe, or some such similar product to recharge the system. Any suggestions? Thanks Tony |
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#2
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In article >,
tom > wrote: > I would like to find r12 substitute for my old a/c system. No problem. The EPA supplies a whole list of acceptable alternative refrigerants at; http://www.epa.gov/spdpublc/snap/ref.../macssubs.html > Local stores in the LA area pep boys, auto Zone, etc, say I need a > license to buy the environmentally safe stuff, yet is available online > with no such requirement. Many states have their own licensing requirements, some only require the purchaser to have the "609" certification. Check the laws in your state. > Questions: > Are there really any restrictions on the e-safe stuff? There are restrictions on -any- substance introduced into a mobile (automotive for highway use) air conditioning system. Fill your AC system with Lime flavored Jello, it -still- falls under the EPA rules, no exceptions. > How do I get this into an old system? All the new cans appear to be > the r134 screw on type, rather than the puncture top cans. > I don't want to replace my valves because my old type pressure gauges > will not work with the newer valves. All substitute refrigerants are required to use individually unique service fittings, this helps eliminate cross contamination during recovery and recycling. Had the rules been more diligently followed over the last 15 years, the equipment requirements for the people and businesses who legitimately service automotive AC systems would be a whole lot less and the costs to the consumer a whole lot lower. > What I would like is a filler hose with the newer type tap end for > the can, and an attachment that can be used to fill my existing system > thru the original valves on the compressor. This would enable me to > use R134 leak detector, as well as envirosafe, or some such similar > product to recharge the system. I've never seen a leak detector, R-134a type or any other used to recharge a system. I think it's entirely reasonable to contact the refrigerant manufacturers listed in the EPA SNAP list to see if they have available adaptors to convert your R-12 manifold and gauge set to use with their product. If you live in the United States, be advised, it is illegal to use hydrocarbon based refrigerants such as Envirosafe (ES-12a) in any mobile air conditioning system. > Any suggestions? Please don't contribute to making things worse than they already are. |
#3
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"tom" > wrote in message ... >I would like to find r12 substitute for my old a/c system. > Local stores in the LA area pep boys, auto Zone, etc, say I need a > license to buy the environmentally safe stuff, yet is available online > with no such requirement. > > Questions: > Are there really any restrictions on the e-safe stuff? > > How do I get this into an old system? All the new cans appear to be > the r134 screw on type, rather than the puncture top cans. > I don't want to replace my valves because my old type pressure gauges > will not work with the newer valves. > > What I would like is a filler hose with the newer type tap end for > the can, and an attachment that can be used to fill my existing system > thru the original valves on the compressor. This would enable me to > use R134 leak detector, as well as envirosafe, or some such similar > product to recharge the system. > > Any suggestions? > > Thanks > > > Tony Tony, There is a direct replacement for R12 (Freeze 12)however you still need a license and be auto AC certified to work on the systems (Federal Law). You still need to replace the dryer/accumulator, reclaimed the R12 and draw a 500 micron vacuum to get everything out, you do not have to change the AC compressor. Then the system must be recharged with the correct amount along with manufacturers amount of compressor oil. I am licensed in both automotive and universal I used Freeze 12 on several older R12 systems with good results. R12 is running (if you can find it) at $190.00 per 16oz. A decent price for the job is around $250.00 on the east coast for all parts and labor. -- Coasty SEMPAR PARATUS (ALWAYS READY) Remove The SPOOGE To Reply |
#4
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On Wed, 13 Jul 2005, Coasty wrote:
> There is a direct replacement for R12 (Freeze 12)however you still need a > license and be auto AC certified to work on the systems (Federal Law). Wrong. There is NO SUCH THING as legal "drop in" for R12. Some other refrigerants or refrigerant blends are chemically and physically directly compatible with R12 systems, but legally, Federally, there is NO SUCH THING as a "drop in". Disregarding this law is very shortsighted, for it screws up the supply of recycled R12 for everyone. Every source of information on the topic -- with the possible exception of shady sellers of non-approved refrigerants -- clearly spells this out. EPA, MACS, IMACA, etc. A 15-second Google search will clearly demonstrate it. > R12 is running (if you can find it) at $190.00 per 16oz. Bull****. Telling alarmist lies helps nobody unless you're trying to sell something, in which case it only helps you. R12 is not hard to find, and is running at between $400 and $450 for a 30-pound cylinder, which translates to $13 to $15 per pound...that is around one-fifteenth of the "$190 per 16oz" you claim. Don't believe me? Head over to eBay and see for yourself. |
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On Tue, 12 Jul 2005, tom wrote:
> I would like to find r12 substitute for my old a/c system. Why? Just use R12. Sure, it's more expensive than other compounds, but it is what the system is designed to work with, you don't need that much of it, and it's the least problematic choice for a system meant to take R12. > What I would like is a filler hose with the newer type tap end for > the can, and an attachment that can be used to fill my existing system If you manage to cobble together such a device, you will do a great deal of damage to your A/C system. You will also very likely injure yourself severely. A/C service is dangerous and requires detailed knowledge of exactly what and what *not* to do. |
#6
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On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 09:16:24 -0400, "Coasty"
> wrote: >> >> What I would like is a filler hose with the newer type tap end for >> the can, and an attachment that can be used to fill my existing system >> thru the original valves on the compressor. This would enable me to >> use R134 leak detector, as well as envirosafe, or some such similar >> product to recharge the system. >> >> Any suggestions? >> >> Thanks >> >> >> Tony > >Tony, > >There is a direct replacement for R12 (Freeze 12)however you still need a >license and be auto AC certified to work on the systems (Federal Law). You >still need to replace the dryer/accumulator, reclaimed the R12 and draw a >500 micron vacuum to get everything out, you do not have to change the AC >compressor. Then the system must be recharged with the correct amount along >with manufacturers amount of compressor oil. I am licensed in both >automotive and universal I used Freeze 12 on several older R12 systems with >good results. R12 is running (if you can find it) at $190.00 per 16oz. A >decent price for the job is around $250.00 on the east coast for all parts >and labor. >-- >Coasty AC was not working when I purchased the car. PO was told Evap coil was leaking. I can't get an AC shop to work on it this time of year, as it wil require a labor intensive removal of the dash. The system must be completely empty by now, so I do not feel I will be releasing freon into the atmosphere. I want to determine exactly where the leak(s) are. If it's the coil, I will get it repaired or replaced thru my local ac shop. I'll do thr RR myself, then bring the car back to him to have it properly, amd legally refilled. This is why I want the proper adapter hose to get leak detector into the system. I don't want to start pulling good working parts, only to find out the leak is somewhere else. Thanks again, Tony |
#7
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To correct your ignorance and you may want to click on the link go to the
technical link and read the EPA authorization on a direct replacement. I was not talking about the stuff on EBAY most of it is crap and contains contaminates along with being illegally imported from Mexico where it is still made. If you consider EBAY as your guide buyer beware. http://www.freeze12.com/ I am licensed and certified Universal and Automotive I show you mine if you show mw yours. -- Coasty SEMPAR PARATUS (ALWAYS READY) Remove The SPOOGE To Reply "Daniel J. Stern" > wrote in message .umich.edu... > On Wed, 13 Jul 2005, Coasty wrote: > >> There is a direct replacement for R12 (Freeze 12)however you still need >> a >> license and be auto AC certified to work on the systems (Federal Law). > > Wrong. There is NO SUCH THING as legal "drop in" for R12. > > Some other refrigerants or refrigerant blends are chemically and > physically directly compatible with R12 systems, but legally, Federally, > there is NO SUCH THING as a "drop in". Disregarding this law is very > shortsighted, for it screws up the supply of recycled R12 for everyone. > Every source of information on the topic -- with the possible exception of > shady sellers of non-approved refrigerants -- clearly spells this out. > EPA, MACS, IMACA, etc. A 15-second Google search will clearly demonstrate > it. > >> R12 is running (if you can find it) at $190.00 per 16oz. > > Bull****. > > Telling alarmist lies helps nobody unless you're trying to sell something, > in which case it only helps you. R12 is not hard to find, and is running > at between $400 and $450 for a 30-pound cylinder, which translates to $13 > to $15 per pound...that is around one-fifteenth of the "$190 per 16oz" you > claim. > > Don't believe me? Head over to eBay and see for yourself. > |
#8
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Another link for you.
http://www.epa.gov/Ozone/snap/refrig.../fittlist.html -- Coasty SEMPAR PARATUS (ALWAYS READY) Remove The SPOOGE To Reply "Daniel J. Stern" > wrote in message .umich.edu... > On Wed, 13 Jul 2005, Coasty wrote: > >> There is a direct replacement for R12 (Freeze 12)however you still need >> a >> license and be auto AC certified to work on the systems (Federal Law). > > Wrong. There is NO SUCH THING as legal "drop in" for R12. > > Some other refrigerants or refrigerant blends are chemically and > physically directly compatible with R12 systems, but legally, Federally, > there is NO SUCH THING as a "drop in". Disregarding this law is very > shortsighted, for it screws up the supply of recycled R12 for everyone. > Every source of information on the topic -- with the possible exception of > shady sellers of non-approved refrigerants -- clearly spells this out. > EPA, MACS, IMACA, etc. A 15-second Google search will clearly demonstrate > it. > >> R12 is running (if you can find it) at $190.00 per 16oz. > > Bull****. > > Telling alarmist lies helps nobody unless you're trying to sell something, > in which case it only helps you. R12 is not hard to find, and is running > at between $400 and $450 for a 30-pound cylinder, which translates to $13 > to $15 per pound...that is around one-fifteenth of the "$190 per 16oz" you > claim. > > Don't believe me? Head over to eBay and see for yourself. > |
#9
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More to inform you
http://www.epa.gov/Ozone/snap/refrigerants/buying.html -- Coasty SEMPAR PARATUS (ALWAYS READY) Remove The SPOOGE To Reply "Daniel J. Stern" > wrote in message .umich.edu... > On Wed, 13 Jul 2005, Coasty wrote: > >> There is a direct replacement for R12 (Freeze 12)however you still need >> a >> license and be auto AC certified to work on the systems (Federal Law). > > Wrong. There is NO SUCH THING as legal "drop in" for R12. > > Some other refrigerants or refrigerant blends are chemically and > physically directly compatible with R12 systems, but legally, Federally, > there is NO SUCH THING as a "drop in". Disregarding this law is very > shortsighted, for it screws up the supply of recycled R12 for everyone. > Every source of information on the topic -- with the possible exception of > shady sellers of non-approved refrigerants -- clearly spells this out. > EPA, MACS, IMACA, etc. A 15-second Google search will clearly demonstrate > it. > >> R12 is running (if you can find it) at $190.00 per 16oz. > > Bull****. > > Telling alarmist lies helps nobody unless you're trying to sell something, > in which case it only helps you. R12 is not hard to find, and is running > at between $400 and $450 for a 30-pound cylinder, which translates to $13 > to $15 per pound...that is around one-fifteenth of the "$190 per 16oz" you > claim. > > Don't believe me? Head over to eBay and see for yourself. > |
#10
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Some more reading to help you
http://www.epa.gov/Ozone/snap/refrig.../unaccept.html -- Coasty SEMPAR PARATUS (ALWAYS READY) Remove The SPOOGE To Reply "Daniel J. Stern" > wrote in message .umich.edu... > On Wed, 13 Jul 2005, Coasty wrote: > >> There is a direct replacement for R12 (Freeze 12)however you still need >> a >> license and be auto AC certified to work on the systems (Federal Law). > > Wrong. There is NO SUCH THING as legal "drop in" for R12. > > Some other refrigerants or refrigerant blends are chemically and > physically directly compatible with R12 systems, but legally, Federally, > there is NO SUCH THING as a "drop in". Disregarding this law is very > shortsighted, for it screws up the supply of recycled R12 for everyone. > Every source of information on the topic -- with the possible exception of > shady sellers of non-approved refrigerants -- clearly spells this out. > EPA, MACS, IMACA, etc. A 15-second Google search will clearly demonstrate > it. > >> R12 is running (if you can find it) at $190.00 per 16oz. > > Bull****. > > Telling alarmist lies helps nobody unless you're trying to sell something, > in which case it only helps you. R12 is not hard to find, and is running > at between $400 and $450 for a 30-pound cylinder, which translates to $13 > to $15 per pound...that is around one-fifteenth of the "$190 per 16oz" you > claim. > > Don't believe me? Head over to eBay and see for yourself. > |
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