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salt sandwich what can I do ?



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 5th 05, 09:01 PM
Steve
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Default salt sandwich what can I do ?

Just where do I stand legally with this situation ? What remedies are there
?

Car to my surprise fails MOT with rust in sills in few places, requires 3
patches one side and two the other, plus front nearside corner of passenger
floor tray. One area I can put my fingers up into the sill under rear
nearside door. Sills on this car always been black, (design), unlike rest of
gold paint scheme, and not bubbling.

The only signs of rust are these areas facing down, and the welding chap has
to lift the carpets to do the repair he says, so I asked him to make the
most of the opportunity and get the guy doing the job to flood the sills
with the yellowy Finnigans waxoyl, this then should inhibit the rust from
the inside. He says there were only these areas of rust and the car was good
for its age, good cars are Mazda 323 fastbacks mechanically anyway, and
treated correctly there are a few years left yet. I love the car and its
looks. I know it has a few years left yet at the least, I also see nothing
4 door wise and with boot space it has, with the sporty sleek looks of that
car, pop up headlights etc, 4 doors and sleek loks rare at moment, need 4
doors as garage narrow. Hate the average looking saloon car so wish to stay
with the car as long as poss.

I had the misfortune three weeks ago to drive up the M5 motorway and saw
salt dust floating about, eventually met up with the salter, got past (not
nice !) then joined the M6, and behold another salting lorry, got past then
came back later down both roads. Only one day of rain since so much of this
powder still there I guess.

Whilst discussing my welding job, I said that after I have had a chance to
pressure wash the rest of the underside and wheel arches free of that salt,
scrubbed with a brush etc and dried it out thoroughly, I would want these
areas I cleaned wire brushed down with an angle grinder and wire brush
attached (read that somewhere !) then Finnigans Underbody Black rust
inhibitor and sealant (apparently very good) applied thoroughly to all these
now cleaned exterior under surfaces, crevices etc. That should buy me some
time, guy reckons three years or more. I want to have that washing and
wirebrushing done later on and I shall book it in after a few weeks.

When I collect car and inspect it on the MOT ramp later, I see that I have
one metal plate welded across and then up the outside surface of my sill,
visible when looking at the car !!!!. Such a visible repair should have been
ok'd with me, and edges panel beaten in, plate welded flush and filler used,
I would have ok'd that if phoned, even if it meant another days wait, I
would not want plates visible on my bodywork !!!! Not a selling point when
the time comes anyway !

Furthermore, no carpets have been touched, the few pieces of gravel are
still there as I left it, no screw heads touched on the trim. Wheel arches
and most of the underside is sprayed with black underseal and flakes of rust
under the car can be flicked away with a fingernail, part coated in black
stuff. Even the engine area was squirted as I ended up having to clean it
off my pop up headlights. He said when collecting me that the guy that did
it also has done the wheel arches , but did he wash them clean first I
shockingly asked, yes I am told. Arches get so grotty this may be so, but
cleaned as thorough as I would have, considering all that salt, I doubt it,
best done at owners pace, not against the clock. Certainly the underside
sees debris that would have been gone if washed, even the remains of the
pheasant I hit ! Furthermore there is rust visible uncoated right next to
the panel welded on, that area was of prime concern and hasnt been finished
correctly.

They have set my car on a different course of rot than my plans would have
done, they have altered its future, SANDWICHED SALT ONTO IT... and wrecked
my timescale plans. Where do I stand with this lot legally ? Current
financial plans dont allow for trying to buy a car, if I have to, The loss
of those plans will cause me further financial loss elsewhere and wreck
three months planning, there is a big knock on effect looming now not of my
making. They have done something I didnt want doing, and not done something
I wanted doing. I also need to have that exterior metal plate (in fact the
edge of the second one is also visible) made flush and paintwork made good.
The runs and sags on my sill made neat or underseal removed, filler added
and painted gloss black again....more expense.

What should I do, I have yet to pay them. I have yet to mention all this !

Steve


Ads
  #2  
Old April 5th 05, 09:11 PM
John S.
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Default

What's the question.....

  #3  
Old April 6th 05, 02:06 AM
HLS
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Default

Indeed , what is the question?
If you bought this piece of **** with no guarantees, then you are likely
hung for the consequences.

UK MOT laws sometimes go too far, BUT law is law.




>



  #4  
Old April 6th 05, 04:04 AM
William R. Watt
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Default


"Steve" ) writes:
> Just where do I stand legally with this situation ? What remedies are there
>?


......

> The only signs of rust are these areas facing down, and the welding chap has
> to lift the carpets to do the repair he says, so I asked him to make the
> most of the opportunity and get the guy doing the job to flood the sills


......

>
> When I collect car and inspect it on the MOT ramp later, I see that I have
> one metal plate welded across and then up the outside surface of my sill,
> visible when looking at the car !!!!. Such a visible repair should have been
> ok'd with me, and edges panel beaten in, plate welded flush and filler used,
> I would have ok'd that if phoned, even if it meant another days wait, I
> would not want plates visible on my bodywork !!!! Not a selling point when
> the time comes anyway !


.....

> What should I do, I have yet to pay them. I have yet to mention all this !


You don't say if the car passed MOT. That seems to be the main issue. If
it passed you should be pleased. Otherwise if you have a copy of your work
order listing the work you wanted done then you can go over it with the
body shop and check that it was done. Legally, if it isn't in writing then
it wasn't said.

Generally I'd compare the cost of repairs to keep a car running one year
to one year's deprectiation plus any sales tax and increase in insurance
on a replacement.




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  #5  
Old April 6th 05, 09:53 PM
Steve
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Default

What is the question, I thought asking ...where do I stand legally on this
was it ! ? Do I have to pay them for work I didnt want done, and for not
doing work I wanted done. They have also possibly shortened the lifespan of
my car (if salt between metal and underbody sealant can do harm?....(can it
?)....and caused me financial difficulties where there were none. Devalued
car with plates welded to outside when I would have had them countersunk and
filled and painted if told this was what would happen. Its now good for a
few years yet they said, but try selling it with that done I say !

Just to clarify to those that didnt read it carefully,
I own the car, its been excellent, I love the car, it has many years left
mechanically if I can stop any more rust failing MOT, first time its ever
had anything to fail, only sills and just a few places at that on them so
far, and hoping if job was done right to inhibit for a few yrs yet, using
internal total waxoyl of sills and external Finnigans underseal, or is
product crap ?. But they didnt even lift the carpets which is what was said
would be done. I no doubt have fresh metal and welds untreated, sils inside
still able to rust. They did not put in writing what was to be done, but
when you call into a place 15 mins before needing to be taken and dropped
off at the office, does anyone dare delay things and say I want the
discussed work in writing before you start ?, in an ideal world perhaps but
there are going to be thousands tomorrow not even thinking of asking that.
They have a look at it and say what needs doing, we all then go with this,
certainly unless the place looks dodgy, but then I would drive off if it did
! Neighbours get their car serviced by the same company there, that helped
make me trust them, but it was my choice, other places were definitely back
street setups ! Take car for a service and ask for this or that to be
looked at, you dont say, now can you write that down which I have asked for,
you just hop in the courtesy car or minibus and go. When two guys point to
the areas and read the MOT form and say thats carpet up, thats carpet up, a
few times, you expect carpet up. When you say ' I want Waxoyl sprayed
inside the sills when carpet up, you should get it ! ....but yes they
could have sprayed car pink, I have no written proof I didnt ask for it to
be sprayed pink. I said dont underseal it yet, I want to thoroughly wash it
and wire brush it first, so why then go against my wishes and spray
underseal on all that salt, sealing it in, and not even wash or wire brush
it first.

It passed the MOT but at what cost, an external plate when I would have said
no to it, I would have gone to another unit dealing with respraying and
bodywork if this was known to me, even if it meant car off road a few days
until they could book me in if necessary. MOT pass yes but the undersealant
beyond those patches was not necessary and I said dont do it yet, so they
ignored this and just sealed in salt when this could foreshorten its
lifespan now, something I simply cannot have happen.

I garage the car, I must keep the car as long as poss, just any other car is
not suitable, narrow garage means need 4 doors in order to be able to open
door and exit car. Must garage car, load up with valuable items at times the
night before a journey. Wing mirror must fold back. Took ages finding this
feature, and 4 doors and sleek design. Like sporty looks of car, pop up
headlights, low profile, sleek yet practical, most cars at moment are
unsporty and boring, all much of a muchness !....yawn !

So what now, withhold payment, get them to clean the unwanted and un asked
for underspray back off to allow me to do the correct treatment ?
Or must I pay them ?
Steve

"William R. Watt" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Steve" ) writes:
> > Just where do I stand legally with this situation ? What remedies are

there
> >?

>
> .....
>
> > The only signs of rust are these areas facing down, and the welding chap

has
> > to lift the carpets to do the repair he says, so I asked him to make the
> > most of the opportunity and get the guy doing the job to flood the sills

>
> .....
>
> >
> > When I collect car and inspect it on the MOT ramp later, I see that I

have
> > one metal plate welded across and then up the outside surface of my

sill,
> > visible when looking at the car !!!!. Such a visible repair should have

been
> > ok'd with me, and edges panel beaten in, plate welded flush and filler

used,
> > I would have ok'd that if phoned, even if it meant another days wait, I
> > would not want plates visible on my bodywork !!!! Not a selling point

when
> > the time comes anyway !

>
> ....
>
> > What should I do, I have yet to pay them. I have yet to mention all this

!
>
> You don't say if the car passed MOT. That seems to be the main issue. If
> it passed you should be pleased. Otherwise if you have a copy of your work
> order listing the work you wanted done then you can go over it with the
> body shop and check that it was done. Legally, if it isn't in writing then
> it wasn't said.
>
> Generally I'd compare the cost of repairs to keep a car running one year
> to one year's deprectiation plus any sales tax and increase in insurance
> on a replacement.
>
>
>
>
> --
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------

----
> William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community

network
> homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm
> warning: non-FreeNet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned



  #6  
Old April 6th 05, 11:20 PM
John S.
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Posts: n/a
Default

The questions were completely missed because of the very long story.
To be perfectly honest, sonice you are asking where you "stand legally"
in this situation, you should consult counsel. I take it there is a
considerable amount of money involved and that you are considering some
sort of action. I am concerned about this statement "They did not put
in writing what was to be done". You may have limited your options by
not insisting a complete description of the work be in writing. Again,
seek legal counsel.

  #7  
Old April 7th 05, 03:14 PM
Mark Levitski
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Default

I would write to President Bush about this issue and what could happen to
global overpopulation if this udnerseal is not e-injected


  #8  
Old April 7th 05, 05:24 PM
Corky Scott
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Default

On Wed, 06 Apr 2005 20:53:33 GMT, "Steve"
> wrote:

>So what now, withhold payment, get them to clean the unwanted and un asked
>for underspray back off to allow me to do the correct treatment ?
>Or must I pay them ?
>Steve


They let you take the car without payment?

I live in northern NE which is solidly in the salt belt. In fact it
may lead the nation in salt use so we see LOTS of it every winter on
the roads and I've owned many vehicals over the years and attempted to
repair many vehicals over the years that were afflicted with salt
corrosion.

My take: once the corrsion has begun and repairs must be made to get
the vehical to pass inspection, the car is doomed. Modern cars have
much much much better salt protection than those of the 70's and even
80's. The factory undercoatings and the type of plastic shielding
used in the wheel wells keeps the corrsion away for a much longer time
now, but all these measures don't prevent it forever, and the salt
spray affect much more than just the body: Shocks, brakes, brakelines,
springs and various tubes and bolts on the engine are also affected.

You can always tell a car that gets driven in an area where salt is
used, the aluminum corrosion is a dead giveaway.

In northern NE and in the other salt states, engines and transmissions
generally outlast the body. In California and the southern states
where salt is not used, it's the opposite, you replace engines and
transmissions but keep the body, or can if you want because the body
remains sound.

Corky Scott
 




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