Mini-Van Conversions?

I was surfing on the GTRV yahoo group and saw a Dodge Caravan converted
into a full camper with a pop-top. I'm not a mini-van guy, but the
Toyota Sienna is a solid, fuel-efficient, AWD vehicle that I think
could potentially offer enough room for a beautiful camper conversion.
My questions: Does anyone know what it would take to put a pop-top roof
on say a 2004 model with a lofted bed for two (like the old VW
Westfalias)? Assuming you could actually do this, would it completely
void the warranty? I don't see any problem with reconfiguring the
innards - just take out the seats and bolt in whatever cabinets,
appliances, and seating you desire. Has anyone seen anything like this?

One more question is regarding financing a conversion. How do the banks
look at this?


My desire is for a 4x4/AWD "camper" (minimum - refridgerator, pantry
fold down bed, table) that gets great mileage. The GMC Safari has been
known to be converted - in fact the guys at GTRV are willing to build
me one custom. But the GMC Safari doesn't have the strongest reviews.
So I'm trying to use my imagination and be creative. Your thoughts...
Please!

OT: sort of great mileage. The way I look at it is like this ... you
could get yourself an older fully equipped vehicle for say 1/10 the cost of
a new $50,000 vehicle ... and that buys a lotta gas.

"Tyler Durden" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> I was surfing on the GTRV yahoo group and saw a Dodge Caravan converted
> into a full camper with a pop-top. I'm not a mini-van guy, but the
> Toyota Sienna is a solid, fuel-efficient, AWD vehicle that I think
> could potentially offer enough room for a beautiful camper conversion.
> My questions: Does anyone know what it would take to put a pop-top roof
> on say a 2004 model with a lofted bed for two (like the old VW
> Westfalias)? Assuming you could actually do this, would it completely
> void the warranty? I don't see any problem with reconfiguring the
> innards - just take out the seats and bolt in whatever cabinets,
> appliances, and seating you desire. Has anyone seen anything like this?
>
> One more question is regarding financing a conversion. How do the banks
> look at this?
>
>
> My desire is for a 4x4/AWD "camper" (minimum - refridgerator, pantry
> fold down bed, table) that gets great mileage. The GMC Safari has been
> known to be converted - in fact the guys at GTRV are willing to build
> me one custom. But the GMC Safari doesn't have the strongest reviews.
> So I'm trying to use my imagination and be creative. Your thoughts...
> Please!
>

Thanks Bowgus, but part of the issue to me about good mileage is
principle.

If you want a conversion van, I would consider a safari or astro van,
specially if your going to mod the roof. These vehicles are still built on a
frame, built like a truck. not built as a uni-body where the structural
support of the roof is required as part of overall structural integrity.
You can get these vans in awd format so you have some ability to go where
you want, they also have more ground clearance then a caravan or others.
This way you can go more places that require more ground clearance. If you
really want something to go off the beaten path then I would consider a Jeep
YJ, TJ or even the older CJ. You can now buy small tent trailers that have
a raised suspension larger 16'' wheels and are more made to go off in the
bush then the standard common tent trailer.
http://www.starcraftrv.com/starcraft..._rt_series.htm
l

Snow...

"Tyler Durden" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> I was surfing on the GTRV yahoo group and saw a Dodge Caravan converted
> into a full camper with a pop-top. I'm not a mini-van guy, but the
> Toyota Sienna is a solid, fuel-efficient, AWD vehicle that I think
> could potentially offer enough room for a beautiful camper conversion.
> My questions: Does anyone know what it would take to put a pop-top roof
> on say a 2004 model with a lofted bed for two (like the old VW
> Westfalias)? Assuming you could actually do this, would it completely
> void the warranty? I don't see any problem with reconfiguring the
> innards - just take out the seats and bolt in whatever cabinets,
> appliances, and seating you desire. Has anyone seen anything like this?
>
> One more question is regarding financing a conversion. How do the banks
> look at this?
>
>
> My desire is for a 4x4/AWD "camper" (minimum - refridgerator, pantry
> fold down bed, table) that gets great mileage. The GMC Safari has been
> known to be converted - in fact the guys at GTRV are willing to build
> me one custom. But the GMC Safari doesn't have the strongest reviews.
> So I'm trying to use my imagination and be creative. Your thoughts...
> Please!
>


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On 16 Dec 2004 19:50:47 -0800, "Tyler Durden"
> wrote:


>My desire is for a 4x4/AWD "camper" (minimum - refridgerator, pantry
>fold down bed, table) that gets great mileage. The GMC Safari has been
>known to be converted - in fact the guys at GTRV are willing to build
>me one custom. But the GMC Safari doesn't have the strongest reviews.
>So I'm trying to use my imagination and be creative. Your thoughts...
>Please!


Don't be so quick to dismiss the Astro/Safari vans.

While they do have their issues, they are a pretty reliable vehicle.
Engines and drivetrains will easily push past 150K miles and there are
many running around with over 250K miles. (Mine has 160K + miles with
one rearend rebuild, two starters and an alternator.)

The Astro/Safari is a more rugged vehicle if you plan on venturing off
the paved roads and parts are readily available and reasonably priced.

A lift kit is available from www.overlandvans.com to allow 31" tires
and a true 2-spd transfer case can be installed.

Matt
99 V-10 Super Duty, Super Cab 4x4
96 GMC Safari AWD Hi-Top Conversion

On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 09:42:25 -0500, "Snow" >
wrote:

>If you want a conversion van, I would consider a safari or astro van,
>specially if your going to mod the roof. These vehicles are still built on a
>frame, built like a truck. not built as a uni-body where the structural
>support of the roof is required as part of overall structural integrity.
>You can get these vans in awd format so you have some ability to go where
>you want, they also have more ground clearance then a caravan or others.
>This way you can go more places that require more ground clearance.


I agree the Astro/Safari is a better choice than the more car-like
mini-vans, but I wanted to clear up a couple of things.

First, the Astro/Safari is a unibody vehicle. It does have a stout
front subframe, but the rest is unibody construction. That being
said, there are many running aroud with raised fiberglass tops and if
done right, the structural integrety is not affected. (If my
recollections are right, full size GM vans are also unibody as are
full size Dodges. Only Ford still offers a full frame under their
full size van.)

Ground clearance on the Astro/Safari is low and the oil pan and fuel
tank are the first things to scrape. They are higher than the
competition car-like vans, but still poor. As mentioned in another
post, www.overlandvans.com offers a lift kit for these vans to get 31"
tires under them which will do wonders for the ground clearance.

The AWD systems in these vans is amazing. (Well, I'm speaking from
experience with the pre-99 vans which had the viscous clutch units.
The newer ones use an electronic clutch which seems to work fine, but
I haven't personally experienced it.) My van has done amazingly well
in up to 14" of fresh snow. Ground clearance has always been my
obstacle. As mentioned in my other post, a true 2-speed transfer case
is a bolt in and only requires a hole in the floor for the shifter and
some driveshaft modifications.

Matt
99 V-10 Super Duty, Super Cab 4x4
96 GMC Safari AWD Hi-Top Conversion

Really, these beasts are unibody now too. I thought they were still
separate body mounted on the s10/s15 trucks frames. My 92 was a separate
body mounted on full truck frame...I think..

Snow...

"Matt Mead" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 09:42:25 -0500, "Snow" >
> wrote:
>
> >If you want a conversion van, I would consider a safari or astro van,
> >specially if your going to mod the roof. These vehicles are still built
on a
> >frame, built like a truck. not built as a uni-body where the structural
> >support of the roof is required as part of overall structural integrity.
> >You can get these vans in awd format so you have some ability to go where
> >you want, they also have more ground clearance then a caravan or others.
> >This way you can go more places that require more ground clearance.
>
>
> I agree the Astro/Safari is a better choice than the more car-like
> mini-vans, but I wanted to clear up a couple of things.
>
> First, the Astro/Safari is a unibody vehicle. It does have a stout
> front subframe, but the rest is unibody construction. That being
> said, there are many running aroud with raised fiberglass tops and if
> done right, the structural integrety is not affected. (If my
> recollections are right, full size GM vans are also unibody as are
> full size Dodges. Only Ford still offers a full frame under their
> full size van.)
>
> Ground clearance on the Astro/Safari is low and the oil pan and fuel
> tank are the first things to scrape. They are higher than the
> competition car-like vans, but still poor. As mentioned in another
> post, www.overlandvans.com offers a lift kit for these vans to get 31"
> tires under them which will do wonders for the ground clearance.
>
> The AWD systems in these vans is amazing. (Well, I'm speaking from
> experience with the pre-99 vans which had the viscous clutch units.
> The newer ones use an electronic clutch which seems to work fine, but
> I haven't personally experienced it.) My van has done amazingly well
> in up to 14" of fresh snow. Ground clearance has always been my
> obstacle. As mentioned in my other post, a true 2-speed transfer case
> is a bolt in and only requires a hole in the floor for the shifter and
> some driveshaft modifications.
>
> Matt
> 99 V-10 Super Duty, Super Cab 4x4
> 96 GMC Safari AWD Hi-Top Conversion


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I've owned 3 Astro Vans. I still own two, one is
an AWD. Some good points have been made, to which
I'd like to add ...
=================================

Matt Mead wrote:

> On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 09:42:25 -0500, "Snow" >
> wrote:
>
>
>>If you want a conversion van, I would consider a safari or astro van,
>>specially if your going to mod the roof. These vehicles are still built on a
>>frame, built like a truck. not built as a uni-body where the structural
>>support of the roof is required as part of overall structural integrity.
>>You can get these vans in awd format so you have some ability to go where
>>you want, they also have more ground clearance then a caravan or others.
>>This way you can go more places that require more ground clearance.
>
>
>
> I agree the Astro/Safari is a better choice than the more car-like
> mini-vans, but I wanted to clear up a couple of things.
>
> First, the Astro/Safari is a unibody vehicle. It does have a stout
> front subframe, but the rest is unibody construction. That being
> said, there are many running aroud with raised fiberglass tops and if
> done right, the structural integrety is not affected. (If my
> recollections are right, full size GM vans are also unibody as are
> full size Dodges. Only Ford still offers a full frame under their
> full size van.)
>
> Ground clearance on the Astro/Safari is low and the oil pan and fuel
> tank are the first things to scrape.
=================================
My '99 AWD has had a couple of 'incidents' while
roaming off road. In the first (in Canyon de
Chelly, AZ) I pinged a small rock in the center
berm that cracked the aluminum oil pan (yep, it's
front and center, the first thing for high center
objects to hit). I was able to get out of the
canyon on my own steam and buy 16 quarts of oil to
make the 100 miles (or so) to Gallup, NM. $800
later, I was on my way again.

I considered getting a skid plate built after
that, but there was no 'stock' item available.
About a hear later on my way to Chaco Canyon, NM
(& going faster than I should have) I went over a
rock that brought me down on a perfectly spaced
subsequent rock. This knocked a golf ball sized
hole in the pan and I had to shut 'er down right
away. After a $180 tow bill and another $600~700
repair, I was able to get under way again.

After getting back home, I searched out a
fabricator who was able to built up a great skid
plate to protect the oil pan and transfer case for
$600. It has mounts welded to the frame that allow
the plate to be unbolted if needed.
=================================
> They are higher than the
> competition car-like vans, but still poor. As mentioned in another
> post, www.overlandvans.com offers a lift kit for these vans to get 31"
> tires under them which will do wonders for the ground clearance.
=================================
I was able to get a 'lift' without a kit. I had a
spring shop re-arch the rear springs (the '99 has
steel springs, but '85 & my '94 have fiberglass
springs) and add a leaf. The shop then adjusted
the torsion bars at the front to level her out
(yes I then had the alignment done). I got about
3"~4" of lift in the process.
=================================
> The AWD systems in these vans is amazing. (Well, I'm speaking from
> experience with the pre-99 vans which had the viscous clutch units.
> The newer ones use an electronic clutch which seems to work fine, but
> I haven't personally experienced it.) My van has done amazingly well
> in up to 14" of fresh snow. Ground clearance has always been my
> obstacle. As mentioned in my other post, a true 2-speed transfer case
> is a bolt in and only requires a hole in the floor for the shifter and
> some driveshaft modifications.
=================================
=================================
>
> Matt
> 99 V-10 Super Duty, Super Cab 4x4
> 96 GMC Safari AWD Hi-Top Conversion
=================================
Matt, I looked at the overlandvans.com web site,
but was unable to find anything on the 2-speed
transfer case. What did I miss?

--
-- Jack --
=================================
Everything you see is temporary.
=================================
Clean Up Return Address To Reply
=================================
Poway, California (San Diego Co.)
N 32° 57' W 117° 04'
At 508' Elevation
=================================

Jack,

It being your third Astro and all, I assume you would reccomend them?
Consumer Reports doesn't exactly rave about them. They mention brakes,
fuel lines, and foot room as major detractors. I can overlook all of
these i'm pretty sure, but I'd like to be put at ease from guys like
you and Matt who seem to like them. I'm almost sold on building my
camper on this chassis. BTW, for those of you who found this string
because you were looking for a 4x4/AWD camper as well, the two places
I've found that do the conversions on the Astro/Safari a
www.gtrv.com in BC, and Safari Condo out of Quebec
http://www.safaricondo.com/menueng.html. Mike at GTRV is really
personable and will work with you one on one. The Safari Condo guys
seem a little more established and offer 4 different camper conversions
of the Safari/Astro, but I think they're a little more expensive.

Now, assuming I go this route (like I say, I'm almost sold), do any of
you guys have suggestions on how to get the best fuel efficiency out of
the Safari/Astro AWD? My thoughts so far a K&N air filter, touring
tires, and possibly an open exhaust system. Any word on a turbocharger?
Any other ideas? The point being that I will use the van primarily for
long road-trips, but insist on having the AWD for snow and the
occasional battered trail to the beach/woods.
Thanks for all the help!

Jonathan

Actually the new GM full size vans are built on a frame. Dodge no longer
builds full sized vans. You can get the Mercedes Sprinter but all of
them I have driven are noisy and rough riding.

--
Steve Williams
Near Cooperstown NY

"God grant us the serenity to accept the things we cannot change,
courage to change the things we can,and wisdom to know the difference."
"Matt Mead" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 09:42:25 -0500, "Snow" >
> wrote:
>
> >If you want a conversion van, I would consider a safari or astro van,
> >specially if your going to mod the roof. These vehicles are still
built on a
> >frame, built like a truck. not built as a uni-body where the
structural
> >support of the roof is required as part of overall structural
integrity.
> >You can get these vans in awd format so you have some ability to go
where
> >you want, they also have more ground clearance then a caravan or
others.
> >This way you can go more places that require more ground clearance.
>
>
> I agree the Astro/Safari is a better choice than the more car-like
> mini-vans, but I wanted to clear up a couple of things.
>
> First, the Astro/Safari is a unibody vehicle. It does have a stout
> front subframe, but the rest is unibody construction. That being
> said, there are many running aroud with raised fiberglass tops and if
> done right, the structural integrety is not affected. (If my
> recollections are right, full size GM vans are also unibody as are
> full size Dodges. Only Ford still offers a full frame under their
> full size van.)
>
> Ground clearance on the Astro/Safari is low and the oil pan and fuel
> tank are the first things to scrape. They are higher than the
> competition car-like vans, but still poor. As mentioned in another
> post, www.overlandvans.com offers a lift kit for these vans to get 31"
> tires under them which will do wonders for the ground clearance.
>
> The AWD systems in these vans is amazing. (Well, I'm speaking from
> experience with the pre-99 vans which had the viscous clutch units.
> The newer ones use an electronic clutch which seems to work fine, but
> I haven't personally experienced it.) My van has done amazingly well
> in up to 14" of fresh snow. Ground clearance has always been my
> obstacle. As mentioned in my other post, a true 2-speed transfer case
> is a bolt in and only requires a hole in the floor for the shifter and
> some driveshaft modifications.
>
> Matt
> 99 V-10 Super Duty, Super Cab 4x4
> 96 GMC Safari AWD Hi-Top Conversion




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