American vs German Quality

"Daniel J. Stern" > wrote in message in.umich.edu>...
> On Tue, 30 Nov 2004, Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
>
> > Perhaps it's not only American vs. *German*, and perhaps not only very
> > recently. Several years back I met a guy from Ford Australia who told me
> > that they had shipped some Fairlanes (Ford Australia kept reusing that
> > name even when the car bore no resemblance to any US-built Fairlane and
> > when the name had long fallen out of use in the US) to Sweden, and the
> > locals had pronounced them far superior to Volvos.
>
> The Australian Ford line contains numerous world-class vehicles, including
> a full range of up-to-date RWD passenger cars and utes with vastly better
> performance, economy, ergonomics, emissions and safety than anything Ford
> sells in the rest of the world. Australia gets a RWD Falcon with 4-litre
> inline Six (normally aspirated, turbo or supercharged), thoroughly modern
> in all respects. North America gets the Five Hundred, a warmed-over
> Taurus.
>
> There ain't no justice.

Warmed over Taurus?? I was having my Taurus serviced and saw a 500 on
the show line. Hmm, says I, that's nothing but a re-badged Taurus.
Dealer asked if I wanted to look at it. I did. It isn't a warmed
over Taurus at all, it has a -lot- more room inside, has one of the
biggest trunks and is (according to him) based on a volvo platform.
Yes, it does bear a resemblance to the Taurus (big strike against) but
I don't think it has any Taurus in it. For sure not in the
engine/drive train components (again according to the salesman).

Harry K

"Daniel J. Stern" > wrote in message in.umich.edu>...
> On Tue, 30 Nov 2004, Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
>
> > Perhaps it's not only American vs. *German*, and perhaps not only very
> > recently. Several years back I met a guy from Ford Australia who told me
> > that they had shipped some Fairlanes (Ford Australia kept reusing that
> > name even when the car bore no resemblance to any US-built Fairlane and
> > when the name had long fallen out of use in the US) to Sweden, and the
> > locals had pronounced them far superior to Volvos.
>
> The Australian Ford line contains numerous world-class vehicles, including
> a full range of up-to-date RWD passenger cars and utes with vastly better
> performance, economy, ergonomics, emissions and safety than anything Ford
> sells in the rest of the world. Australia gets a RWD Falcon with 4-litre
> inline Six (normally aspirated, turbo or supercharged), thoroughly modern
> in all respects. North America gets the Five Hundred, a warmed-over
> Taurus.
>
> There ain't no justice.

Warmed over Taurus?? I was having my Taurus serviced and saw a 500 on
the show line. Hmm, says I, that's nothing but a re-badged Taurus.
Dealer asked if I wanted to look at it. I did. It isn't a warmed
over Taurus at all, it has a -lot- more room inside, has one of the
biggest trunks and is (according to him) based on a volvo platform.
Yes, it does bear a resemblance to the Taurus (big strike against) but
I don't think it has any Taurus in it. For sure not in the
engine/drive train components (again according to the salesman).

Harry K

"Harry K" > wrote in message
om...
> "Daniel J. Stern" > wrote in message
in.umich.edu>...
> > On Tue, 30 Nov 2004, Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
> >
> > > Perhaps it's not only American vs. *German*, and perhaps not only very
> > > recently. Several years back I met a guy from Ford Australia who told
me
> > > that they had shipped some Fairlanes (Ford Australia kept reusing that
> > > name even when the car bore no resemblance to any US-built Fairlane
and
> > > when the name had long fallen out of use in the US) to Sweden, and the
> > > locals had pronounced them far superior to Volvos.
> >
> > The Australian Ford line contains numerous world-class vehicles,
including
> > a full range of up-to-date RWD passenger cars and utes with vastly
better
> > performance, economy, ergonomics, emissions and safety than anything
Ford
> > sells in the rest of the world. Australia gets a RWD Falcon with
4-litre
> > inline Six (normally aspirated, turbo or supercharged), thoroughly
modern
> > in all respects. North America gets the Five Hundred, a warmed-over
> > Taurus.
> >
> > There ain't no justice.
>
> Warmed over Taurus?? I was having my Taurus serviced and saw a 500 on
> the show line. Hmm, says I, that's nothing but a re-badged Taurus.
> Dealer asked if I wanted to look at it. I did. It isn't a warmed
> over Taurus at all, it has a -lot- more room inside, has one of the
> biggest trunks and is (according to him) based on a volvo platform.
> Yes, it does bear a resemblance to the Taurus (big strike against) but
> I don't think it has any Taurus in it. For sure not in the
> engine/drive train components (again according to the salesman).

Engine (3.0L Duratec) is the same as the upgrade engine from the Taurus
lineup. Other than that, not much similar between the cars. It's built on a
Volvo platform IIRC, but Daniel insists that it's the same car.

"Harry K" > wrote in message
om...
> "Daniel J. Stern" > wrote in message
in.umich.edu>...
> > On Tue, 30 Nov 2004, Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
> >
> > > Perhaps it's not only American vs. *German*, and perhaps not only very
> > > recently. Several years back I met a guy from Ford Australia who told
me
> > > that they had shipped some Fairlanes (Ford Australia kept reusing that
> > > name even when the car bore no resemblance to any US-built Fairlane
and
> > > when the name had long fallen out of use in the US) to Sweden, and the
> > > locals had pronounced them far superior to Volvos.
> >
> > The Australian Ford line contains numerous world-class vehicles,
including
> > a full range of up-to-date RWD passenger cars and utes with vastly
better
> > performance, economy, ergonomics, emissions and safety than anything
Ford
> > sells in the rest of the world. Australia gets a RWD Falcon with
4-litre
> > inline Six (normally aspirated, turbo or supercharged), thoroughly
modern
> > in all respects. North America gets the Five Hundred, a warmed-over
> > Taurus.
> >
> > There ain't no justice.
>
> Warmed over Taurus?? I was having my Taurus serviced and saw a 500 on
> the show line. Hmm, says I, that's nothing but a re-badged Taurus.
> Dealer asked if I wanted to look at it. I did. It isn't a warmed
> over Taurus at all, it has a -lot- more room inside, has one of the
> biggest trunks and is (according to him) based on a volvo platform.
> Yes, it does bear a resemblance to the Taurus (big strike against) but
> I don't think it has any Taurus in it. For sure not in the
> engine/drive train components (again according to the salesman).

Engine (3.0L Duratec) is the same as the upgrade engine from the Taurus
lineup. Other than that, not much similar between the cars. It's built on a
Volvo platform IIRC, but Daniel insists that it's the same car.

"KokomoKid" > wrote in message
nk.net...
>
> "Kirk Matheson" > wrote in message
> om...
> > Hans Mücke > wrote in message
> >...
> > > Nomen Nescio wrote:
> > >
> > > > Is there a PROVEABLE difference in Design, Materials, and
Fabrication
> of
> > > > American vs German automobiles?
> > >
> > > It is provable, that it is in people`s minds. Over here, people say
It"s
> > > full of plastic." when they think of american cars. What they forget
...
> a
> > > mercedes is full of plastic too - it only looks different.
> >
> > I used to believe that German autos were much more reliable than their
> > American counterparts. However, after having friends that have owned
> > Mercedes', Audi's, and water-cooled Volkswagons with their various
> > problems, I don't feel that way anymore. The old air-cooled beetles
> > had a reputation for being reliable, most likely due to there very
> > simple design.
> >
> > I don't have any friends that own or have owned BMW's.
> >
> > -Kirk Matheson
>
> I have two VW's. a Dodge minivan, and a Mercury Grand Marquis. I've had
> very little trouble with any of them. There is no reason not to believe
> Consumer Reports' and J.D. Powers' findings that certain makes of Japanese
> cars have the best quality. The thing is, the quality of all cars has
> improved so much over the last 20 years that, with any luck, you can buy
any
> brand, take care of it, and have a reliable car. According to C.R. et.
al.,
> VW is among the worst of brands of cars sold in the U.S., but my Jetta
> diesel wagon has had zero problems in a year and 14K miles.

Car is still young, give it another 100K

"KokomoKid" > wrote in message
nk.net...
>
> "Kirk Matheson" > wrote in message
> om...
> > Hans Mücke > wrote in message
> >...
> > > Nomen Nescio wrote:
> > >
> > > > Is there a PROVEABLE difference in Design, Materials, and
Fabrication
> of
> > > > American vs German automobiles?
> > >
> > > It is provable, that it is in people`s minds. Over here, people say
It"s
> > > full of plastic." when they think of american cars. What they forget
...
> a
> > > mercedes is full of plastic too - it only looks different.
> >
> > I used to believe that German autos were much more reliable than their
> > American counterparts. However, after having friends that have owned
> > Mercedes', Audi's, and water-cooled Volkswagons with their various
> > problems, I don't feel that way anymore. The old air-cooled beetles
> > had a reputation for being reliable, most likely due to there very
> > simple design.
> >
> > I don't have any friends that own or have owned BMW's.
> >
> > -Kirk Matheson
>
> I have two VW's. a Dodge minivan, and a Mercury Grand Marquis. I've had
> very little trouble with any of them. There is no reason not to believe
> Consumer Reports' and J.D. Powers' findings that certain makes of Japanese
> cars have the best quality. The thing is, the quality of all cars has
> improved so much over the last 20 years that, with any luck, you can buy
any
> brand, take care of it, and have a reliable car. According to C.R. et.
al.,
> VW is among the worst of brands of cars sold in the U.S., but my Jetta
> diesel wagon has had zero problems in a year and 14K miles.

Car is still young, give it another 100K

"Daniel J. Stern" > wrote in message
n.umich.edu...
> On Tue, 30 Nov 2004, A.Muewi wrote:
>
> > I am probably one of the few Germans who, after driving several German
> > made cars (Fords, Audi, Smart) and one Honda, bought 3 American cars. I
> > live in a neighborhood where everybody else works at the local Mercedes
> > plant and drives Mercedes. Not me. I don't like car trouble.
>
> You're not the only one.
>
> Take a look here at Peter Wendt's page:
>
> http://members.aol.com/peterwendt/usautogw.htm

Wow, an Spirit was up to a European's standards.

When he mentioned "3.0L V6" and " 4-speed automatic gearbox" I was curious
that it was his favorite car. Then he mentioned the obligatory transmission
failure, which satisfied me.

It's a shame the first one was written off with such little (apparent)
damage.

I also thought it was strange that people would find it odd looking. I've
always found the car very non-offensive looking.

"Daniel J. Stern" > wrote in message
n.umich.edu...
> On Tue, 30 Nov 2004, A.Muewi wrote:
>
> > I am probably one of the few Germans who, after driving several German
> > made cars (Fords, Audi, Smart) and one Honda, bought 3 American cars. I
> > live in a neighborhood where everybody else works at the local Mercedes
> > plant and drives Mercedes. Not me. I don't like car trouble.
>
> You're not the only one.
>
> Take a look here at Peter Wendt's page:
>
> http://members.aol.com/peterwendt/usautogw.htm

Wow, an Spirit was up to a European's standards.

When he mentioned "3.0L V6" and " 4-speed automatic gearbox" I was curious
that it was his favorite car. Then he mentioned the obligatory transmission
failure, which satisfied me.

It's a shame the first one was written off with such little (apparent)
damage.

I also thought it was strange that people would find it odd looking. I've
always found the car very non-offensive looking.

"Kirk Matheson" > wrote in message
> I used to believe that German autos were much more reliable than their
> American counterparts. However, after having friends that have owned
> Mercedes', Audi's, and water-cooled Volkswagons with their various
> problems, I don't feel that way anymore. The old air-cooled beetles
> had a reputation for being reliable, most likely due to there very
> simple design.
>
>
> -Kirk Matheson

Back then VW people had a different idea of reliable. They had the old
air-cooled engines rebuilt every 60,000 miles, maybe a few extra valve jobs
thrown in between. I guess that was considered reasonable because the
overhaul bill was $200. But I agree, everybody considered them reliable,
even though the engine components had no longevity. The simplicity was a big
part of that. If it broke down it was always something very simple. Plus,
one frat boy could push it.

That said, the dribble fuel injection was a big kick in the head for
air-cooled VW's. That just ruined the car's rock-simple reputation. They
were still popular, but the attitude of people buying them was a lot
different. I've never heard anybody say anything good about that change.

So when you look at these realities, no to mention the exhaust-fume
defroster that could kill you, you can see it wasn't that good of a car.

"Kirk Matheson" > wrote in message
> I used to believe that German autos were much more reliable than their
> American counterparts. However, after having friends that have owned
> Mercedes', Audi's, and water-cooled Volkswagons with their various
> problems, I don't feel that way anymore. The old air-cooled beetles
> had a reputation for being reliable, most likely due to there very
> simple design.
>
>
> -Kirk Matheson

Back then VW people had a different idea of reliable. They had the old
air-cooled engines rebuilt every 60,000 miles, maybe a few extra valve jobs
thrown in between. I guess that was considered reasonable because the
overhaul bill was $200. But I agree, everybody considered them reliable,
even though the engine components had no longevity. The simplicity was a big
part of that. If it broke down it was always something very simple. Plus,
one frat boy could push it.

That said, the dribble fuel injection was a big kick in the head for
air-cooled VW's. That just ruined the car's rock-simple reputation. They
were still popular, but the attitude of people buying them was a lot
different. I've never heard anybody say anything good about that change.

So when you look at these realities, no to mention the exhaust-fume
defroster that could kill you, you can see it wasn't that good of a car.