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#1
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identifying antique car
I'm doing some scanning work at my local Historical Society and came
across the following un-dated picture. I'm posting a link, not including it in the post :-) http://www.mv.com/users/davec/car.jpg The picture is taken outside the firestation on the grounds of the firestation. There isn't much to be seen of the car itself and I'm trying to contact the right people at the DMV or state historical to help me track down the license plate. The vehicle is thought to be the first gas powered fire truck in town, but we can't be sure. I'm hoping someone may recognize something on the vehicle to help us track down what it is, or even what year! The logo on the grille, when enlarged, appears to be in cursive, going up from left to right. It looks like it starts with a "B" and ends with either a "k" (Buick perhaps?) or a "t". I do not see a bell in the photo though. Please post or email me with any questions, suggestions or for a link to a bigger photo if needed. Thanks -- -davec ----------------------------------------------------------------- |
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#4
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Dave --- I just ran across your question about the car in the photo. Can you tell me in what state the photo was taken? It is an early car from around 1906 to 1909. The plate looks like it might be from Massachusetts. Early cars were often purchased from local manufactures. This may help in the ID of your photo. Major companies such as Ford or Buick whould ship father afield but regional manufactuer should be condidered. Right now, I am leanding toward a 1906 Buick. Please contact me a >--- George King Dave Chamberlain wrote: >I'm doing some scanning work at my local Historical Society and came >across the following un-dated picture. I'm posting a link, not including >it in the post :-) > http://www.mv.com/users/davec/car.jpg > >The picture is taken outside the firestation on the grounds of the >firestation. There isn't much to be seen of the car itself and I'm >trying to contact the right people at the DMV or state historical >to help me track down the license plate. > >The vehicle is thought to be the first gas powered fire truck in town, >but we can't be sure. I'm hoping someone may recognize something on the >vehicle to help us track down what it is, or even what year! > >The logo on the grille, when enlarged, appears to be in cursive, going >up from left to right. It looks like it starts with a "B" and ends with >either a "k" (Buick perhaps?) or a "t". I do not see a bell in the >photo though. > >Please post or email me with any questions, suggestions or for a link >to a bigger photo if needed. > >Thanks > |
#5
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The picture is taken in New Boston, New Hampshire, which is about 10 miles
west of Manchester (which is about 20 miles North of Massachusetts). The plate (1147) does have "NH" on the bottom of it. I have tried to track it down through that, but it isn't going anyplace other than giving me a nice tour of the different departements that can't help me :-) "George King III" > wrote in message ... > > > Dave --- I just ran across your question about the car in the photo. > Can you tell me in what state the photo was taken? It is an early car > from around 1906 to 1909. The plate looks like it might be from > Massachusetts. Early cars were often purchased from local manufactures. > This may help in the ID of your photo. Major companies such as Ford or > Buick whould ship father afield but regional manufactuer should be > condidered. > > Right now, I am leanding toward a 1906 Buick. > > Please contact me a >--- George King > > > > > > > Dave Chamberlain wrote: > > >I'm doing some scanning work at my local Historical Society and came > >across the following un-dated picture. I'm posting a link, not including > >it in the post :-) > > http://www.mv.com/users/davec/car.jpg > > > >The picture is taken outside the firestation on the grounds of the > >firestation. There isn't much to be seen of the car itself and I'm > >trying to contact the right people at the DMV or state historical > >to help me track down the license plate. > > > >The vehicle is thought to be the first gas powered fire truck in town, > >but we can't be sure. I'm hoping someone may recognize something on the > >vehicle to help us track down what it is, or even what year! > > > >The logo on the grille, when enlarged, appears to be in cursive, going > >up from left to right. It looks like it starts with a "B" and ends with > >either a "k" (Buick perhaps?) or a "t". I do not see a bell in the > >photo though. > > > >Please post or email me with any questions, suggestions or for a link > >to a bigger photo if needed. > > > >Thanks > > > |
#6
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OK Dave --- I have check with the Buick guru and he agrees so here is my
opinion. It appears that the car is a Buick. It was built between 1906 and 1910. The engine in this car was a two cylinder cast iron inline engine with a bore of 4.5 and a stroke of 5 for a total displacement of 159 cubic inches. It developed 22 horsepower at 1200 RPM. The transmission was a two speed planetary and the car had two wheel, mechanical brakes. The Model G was a two seat roadster and the Model F was a four seat touring car. The engine was mounted under and just to the rear of the front seat. Final drive to the wheels was by a chain. Under the hood was a gas tank. You can see the fill cap on top of the hood in your picture. I would suspect that the car in the picture is a Model F touring car. It would be difficult (but not impossible for school kids) to get 24 people in a roadster. In 1906, the Model F weighed 1,850 pounds and cost $1,250. The roadster cost one hundred dollars less. There were 1,207 touring cars built that year compared to only 193 roadsters. This is another reason to lean towards this car being a Model F. Starting in 1907 and running through the end of production in 1910, Buick produced more than 3,000 Model F's each year and only a few hundred of the roadsters. For more details about the Model F take a look at http://www.gmcanada.com/inm/gmcanada...el_f_spec.html In New Hampshire, 1905 was the first year for license plates and 1909 was the first year of driver's licenses. Check the town records for property taxes paid on vehicles as well as listing of licensed drivers. Town annual reports often have this information. Check the local papers for "motor car" articles. Also, many state published directories of license plates for each year. These are highly prized by license plate collectors. You might want to try Gerry Griffin at the New Hampshire License Plate Museum. He is a member of the Antique License Plate Collectors Association. His membership number is 7626. You should be able to date the plate by the color combination of white on dark (most likely green) and fact that the "NH" is below the numbers. Most NH plates have the "NH" above or to the left of the numbers. Also check out a book entitled, "A History of New Hampshire License Plates, 1905-1996 by Stanley A Hamel. The New Hampshire Historical Society has a copy listed under under "Library 629.9 H212" Consider that the lady sitting in the passenger's seat might be the school teacher. Compare her image to that of other pictures of the school classes during this same period. Is that the school building to the right of the fire house? It appears that the picture was taken in late spring or early fall. There are leaves on the trees and dandelions in the grass. The children are wearing long sleeves and some have coats. Take a look at the local paper for an article about the Mr. Smith brining his new car to the school for all the students to see. Please let me know what you find out. --- George King III, Connecticut Antique Engine Restoration Dave wrote: >The picture is taken in New Boston, New Hampshire, which is about 10 miles >west of Manchester (which is about 20 miles North of Massachusetts). > >The plate (1147) does have "NH" on the bottom of it. I have tried to track >it down through that, but it isn't going anyplace other than giving me a >nice tour of the different departments that can't help me :-) > > >"George King III" > wrote in message ... > >> >>Dave --- I just ran across your question about the car in the photo. >> Can you tell me in what state the photo was taken? It is an early car >>from around 1906 to 1909. The plate looks like it might be from >>Massachusetts. Early cars were often purchased from local manufactures. >> This may help in the ID of your photo. Major companies such as Ford or >>Buick whould ship father afield but regional manufactuer should be >>condidered. >> >>Right now, I am leanding toward a 1906 Buick. >> >>Please contact me a >--- George King >> >> >> >> >> >> >>Dave Chamberlain wrote: >> >>>I'm doing some scanning work at my local Historical Society and came >>>across the following un-dated picture. I'm posting a link, not including >>>it in the post :-) >>> http://www.mv.com/users/davec/car.jpg >>> >>>The picture is taken outside the firestation on the grounds of the >>>firestation. There isn't much to be seen of the car itself and I'm >>>trying to contact the right people at the DMV or state historical >>>to help me track down the license plate. >>> >>>The vehicle is thought to be the first gas powered fire truck in town, >>>but we can't be sure. I'm hoping someone may recognize something on the >>>vehicle to help us track down what it is, or even what year! >>> >>>The logo on the grille, when enlarged, appears to be in cursive, going >>>up from left to right. It looks like it starts with a "B" and ends with >>>either a "k" (Buick perhaps?) or a "t". I do not see a bell in the >>>photo though. >>> >>>Please post or email me with any questions, suggestions or for a link >>>to a bigger photo if needed. >>> >>>Thanks >>> > > |
#7
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WOW!
Thanks! I too noticed the grass and the trees and had come up with a fall timeframe. However, after all the studying and blowing up of the picture, I never noticed the woman sitting there. I did notice the man, but not the woman. Amazing what a second pair of eyes can come up with. There isn't a town paper, which makes it harder to come up with articles, to this day the best we have is a monthly paper (and that is only about 3 years old). I may be able to check the tax records, but of course nothing is on computer (that's actually what I'm doing as well as scanning in hundreds of old pictures and trying to get a rough date on them). The buildings you see in the background are the firestation, which in this picture was big enough for horse drawn equipment. There was an extension added to the left side of it and the doors moved to the left side when the town started getting gas-powered equipment. When that became too big the department moved to a building which is behind the photographer. The building to the right is the side of the town hall, although there is a school across the street. The town did have a highschool that was separate from the primary schools, although I honestly don't know which ones were in the area at this time. JR Whipple (owner of the Parker House and Young's hotels) was a resident and New Boston was a vacation stop as it was about 3-4 hour horse/buggy ride from Boston. I'll try contacting the names you gave me below and see what else I can dig up. The picture you pointed me too is very close. Unfortunately the town was really hoping this would be the first gas-powered piece of fire equipment. Thank you for the huge lead. -dave |
#8
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OK Dave, Here's your bonus answer. The owner of the car is Samuel F.
Langdell of New Boston. I got this information from Gerald Griffin. Here is his answer to my inquiry: George, The number was first issued in late 1906 to Samuel F. Langdell, of New Boston, for a10 HP Maxwell-Brisco. These were Porcelain license Plates, white numbers on a green background. The plates were "permanent" 1905-1911 although starting in 1910 one had to renew yearly. If the owner bought a new vehicle he could have transfered the plates. If he sold the vehicle and didn't replace it he would have turned the plates in and they may have been issued to someone else. All we can say for certain is that the photo was likely taken between late 1906 and early 1912. My museum is in Mont Vernon, NH. Minus eleven degrees here this morning. Hope the information helps. G From what Jerry says, I would assume that the Buick was Mr. Langdell's second car. Since he registered the Maxwell-Brisco in 1906, it is unlikely that the Buick is from that year but it has to be before 1910. Please let me know if you find any further information. --- gk3 Dave wrote: >WOW! > >Thanks! > >I too noticed the grass and the trees and had come up with a fall timeframe. >However, after all the studying and blowing up of the picture, I never >noticed the woman sitting there. I did notice the man, but not the woman. >Amazing what a second pair of eyes can come up with. > >There isn't a town paper, which makes it harder to come up with articles, to >this day the best we have is a monthly paper (and that is only about 3 years >old). I may be able to check the tax records, but of course nothing is on >computer (that's actually what I'm doing as well as scanning in hundreds of >old pictures and trying to get a rough date on them). > >The buildings you see in the background are the firestation, which in this >picture was big enough for horse drawn equipment. There was an extension >added to the left side of it and the doors moved to the left side when the >town started getting gas-powered equipment. When that became too big the >department moved to a building which is behind the photographer. The >building to the right is the side of the town hall, although there is a >school across the street. The town did have a highschool that was separate >from the primary schools, although I honestly don't know which ones were in >the area at this time. JR Whipple (owner of the Parker House and Young's >hotels) was a resident and New Boston was a vacation stop as it was about >3-4 hour horse/buggy ride from Boston. > >I'll try contacting the names you gave me below and see what else I can dig >up. The picture you pointed me too is very close. Unfortunately the town >was really hoping this would be the first gas-powered piece of fire >equipment. Thank you for the huge lead. > >-dave > > |
#9
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Thank you again!
This is great information, conveniently enough, Mont Vernon borders New Boston on the south. I think I"ll try to contact Mr. Griffin, and I just took the dog for a walk, it is currently -8 (at 10:27am). -dave "George King III" > wrote in message ... > OK Dave, Here's your bonus answer. The owner of the car is Samuel F. > Langdell of New Boston. I got this information from Gerald Griffin. > Here is his answer to my inquiry: > > George, The number was first issued in late 1906 to Samuel F. Langdell, of New Boston, for > a10 HP Maxwell-Brisco. These were Porcelain license Plates, white numbers on a green > background. The plates were "permanent" 1905-1911 although starting in 1910 one had to > renew yearly. If the owner bought a new vehicle he could have transfered the plates. If he > sold the vehicle and didn't replace it he would have turned the plates in and they may > have been issued to someone else. All we can say for certain is that the photo was likely > taken between late 1906 and early 1912. My museum is in Mont Vernon, NH. Minus eleven > degrees here this morning. Hope the information helps. G > > From what Jerry says, I would assume that the Buick was Mr. Langdell's > second car. Since he registered the Maxwell-Brisco in 1906, it is > unlikely that the Buick is from that year but it has to be before 1910. > > Please let me know if you find any further information. --- gk3 > > Dave wrote: > > >WOW! > > > >Thanks! > > > >I too noticed the grass and the trees and had come up with a fall timeframe. > >However, after all the studying and blowing up of the picture, I never > >noticed the woman sitting there. I did notice the man, but not the woman. > >Amazing what a second pair of eyes can come up with. > > > >There isn't a town paper, which makes it harder to come up with articles, to > >this day the best we have is a monthly paper (and that is only about 3 years > >old). I may be able to check the tax records, but of course nothing is on > >computer (that's actually what I'm doing as well as scanning in hundreds of > >old pictures and trying to get a rough date on them). > > > >The buildings you see in the background are the firestation, which in this > >picture was big enough for horse drawn equipment. There was an extension > >added to the left side of it and the doors moved to the left side when the > >town started getting gas-powered equipment. When that became too big the > >department moved to a building which is behind the photographer. The > >building to the right is the side of the town hall, although there is a > >school across the street. The town did have a highschool that was separate > >from the primary schools, although I honestly don't know which ones were in > >the area at this time. JR Whipple (owner of the Parker House and Young's > >hotels) was a resident and New Boston was a vacation stop as it was about > >3-4 hour horse/buggy ride from Boston. > > > >I'll try contacting the names you gave me below and see what else I can dig > >up. The picture you pointed me too is very close. Unfortunately the town > >was really hoping this would be the first gas-powered piece of fire > >equipment. Thank you for the huge lead. > > > >-dave > > > > > |
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