Noisy brakes on 1996 Chrysler T&C with ABS

--

"KWS" > wrote in message
...
> We bought our 96 T&C new and had a bunch of problems with it in the first
> few years. Reading your post caused me to recall that we also had this
> problem with ours.
>
> If I remember properly, it was some sort of design problem that merited
> either a recall or a TSB. Chrysler fixed ours under warranty. I suggest
you
> do a little research on line and, if you can find a reputable one, discuss
> it with your friendly Chrysler dealer.
>
> Good luck.
>
> Ken
>
>
> "D. Dean" <u20685@uwe> wrote in message news:5e86720017440@uwe...
> > My '96 Town and Country started making noises a couple of years ago when
> > braking. Noise seems to eminate from the rear drums. Particularly in
> warm
> > weather, they make a loud "Whump, Whump, Whump,etc." sound and the
brake
> > pedal pulsates slightly. I've had three different mechanics check it
out
> and
> > they all said the brakes are in good shape and there is nothing wrong
with
> > them. The vehicle only has 42, 000 miles on it and I don't know what to
> do
> > next.
>
>
There were a few TSB's out on this problem, but most of them didn't occur
years later, they were like that from the factory and springs had to be
added. So this vehicle would not have just started doing it. That's why I
recommended to not just put shoes on it, have someone that is familiar with
this vehicle take look at it.

Glenn Beasley
Chrysler Tech

"Ted Mittelstaedt" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Ken Weitzel" > wrote in message
> news:sEx_f.14509$gO.7445@pd7tw3no...
> >
> >
> > D. Dean via CarKB.com wrote:
> > > Ken,
> > > Thanks for letting me know about your brake problem. I'm of the
opinion
> that
> > > it might be wise to replace the rear brakes. The only thing I'm
> wondering is
> > > could it be something wrong in the ABS?
> > >
> > > Don
> >
> > Hi Don...
> >
> > I stand ready to be corrected by the mechanics here, but I
> > suspect that your abs is working fine... proving it every
> > time you've stopped lately
> >
> > Willing to bet you a dollar to a doughnut that you have
> > exactly the same problem I had, with the only difference
> > being that the old Olds had no abs.
> >
> > So - everytime I braked the wheel locked up solid; whereas your
> > abs is preventing lock up. Then the abs releasing the brakes
> > causes the whump sound everytime it applies/releases, and the
> > jiggle you're feeling in the pedal is just normal for the abs.
> >
> > If dollars are a little tight, and/or service is far away,
> > it was pretty easy to change (rebuild) the wheel cylinder.
> > Toughest part of changing it is getting the old fitting off
> > (you need the correct wrenches). Then naturally you have to
> > bleed the brakes. Rebuilding would be even easier, though you'd
> > have to get ahold of a hone.
> >
> > And once more, I'm absolutely convinced that you have to change
> > the pads. Once they're contaminated there just ain't no
> > amount of cleaning and sanding that will save them permanently.
> >
>
>
> You got to be really careful when changing calipers or wheel cylinders on
> a car with ABS. If you allow too much air into the brake lines, and the
air
> gets up into the ABS controller valves, you can NOT bleed them yourself,
it
> must
> be done with a scan tool. (and not a $199 cheapie, either)
>
> I would try having an assistant sitting in the car, loosen the brake line
> just a bit,
> then get all the bolts and such out, then quickly undo the brake line and
> then
> slap the new cylinder in, then quickly tighten the line and then have the
> assistant
> start pressing the petal and get the bleed cycle going. And make sure the
> master cylinder is full, if it sucks air, your screwed.
>
> I've never bothered rebuilding wheel cylinders, the cost of new ones is
> cheap
> enough to just go new.
>
> Ted
>
>
>
Ted, bleeding air or even replacing the calipers or wheel cylinders aren't a
problem. The problem occurs when the hydraulic (ABS) lines or hydraulic
assembly has been opened, that's when it requires the use of the DRB brake
bleed function to be used.

Glenn Beasley
Chrysler Tech

"maxpower" > wrote in message
...
>
>
>
> "Ted Mittelstaedt" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Ken Weitzel" > wrote in message
> > news:sEx_f.14509$gO.7445@pd7tw3no...
> > >
> > >
> > > D. Dean via CarKB.com wrote:
> > > > Ken,
> > > > Thanks for letting me know about your brake problem. I'm of the
> opinion
> > that
> > > > it might be wise to replace the rear brakes. The only thing I'm
> > wondering is
> > > > could it be something wrong in the ABS?
> > > >
> > > > Don
> > >
> > > Hi Don...
> > >
> > > I stand ready to be corrected by the mechanics here, but I
> > > suspect that your abs is working fine... proving it every
> > > time you've stopped lately
> > >
> > > Willing to bet you a dollar to a doughnut that you have
> > > exactly the same problem I had, with the only difference
> > > being that the old Olds had no abs.
> > >
> > > So - everytime I braked the wheel locked up solid; whereas your
> > > abs is preventing lock up. Then the abs releasing the brakes
> > > causes the whump sound everytime it applies/releases, and the
> > > jiggle you're feeling in the pedal is just normal for the abs.
> > >
> > > If dollars are a little tight, and/or service is far away,
> > > it was pretty easy to change (rebuild) the wheel cylinder.
> > > Toughest part of changing it is getting the old fitting off
> > > (you need the correct wrenches). Then naturally you have to
> > > bleed the brakes. Rebuilding would be even easier, though you'd
> > > have to get ahold of a hone.
> > >
> > > And once more, I'm absolutely convinced that you have to change
> > > the pads. Once they're contaminated there just ain't no
> > > amount of cleaning and sanding that will save them permanently.
> > >
> >
> >
> > You got to be really careful when changing calipers or wheel cylinders
on
> > a car with ABS. If you allow too much air into the brake lines, and the
> air
> > gets up into the ABS controller valves, you can NOT bleed them yourself,
> it
> > must
> > be done with a scan tool. (and not a $199 cheapie, either)
> >
> > I would try having an assistant sitting in the car, loosen the brake
line
> > just a bit,
> > then get all the bolts and such out, then quickly undo the brake line
and
> > then
> > slap the new cylinder in, then quickly tighten the line and then have
the
> > assistant
> > start pressing the petal and get the bleed cycle going. And make sure
the
> > master cylinder is full, if it sucks air, your screwed.
> >
> > I've never bothered rebuilding wheel cylinders, the cost of new ones is
> > cheap
> > enough to just go new.
> >
> > Ted
> >
> >
> >
> Ted, bleeding air or even replacing the calipers or wheel cylinders aren't
a
> problem. The problem occurs when the hydraulic (ABS) lines or hydraulic
> assembly has been opened, that's when it requires the use of the DRB brake
> bleed function to be used.
>

How do you replace the wheel cylinder or caliper without opening
the hydraulic line?

Ted

Ken,
I checked the National Highway Safety web site for recalls for this problem
and there were none. Our local Chrysler dealer is not too reputable and I'd
be hard pressed to take any vehicle there for service. There is one 50 miles
away that I trust. I guess I'll make an appointment there.
Thanks for your help.
Don

KWS wrote:
>We bought our 96 T&C new and had a bunch of problems with it in the first
>few years. Reading your post caused me to recall that we also had this
>problem with ours.
>
>If I remember properly, it was some sort of design problem that merited
>either a recall or a TSB. Chrysler fixed ours under warranty. I suggest you
>do a little research on line and, if you can find a reputable one, discuss
>it with your friendly Chrysler dealer.
>
>Good luck.
>
>Ken
>
>> My '96 Town and Country started making noises a couple of years ago when
>> braking. Noise seems to eminate from the rear drums. Particularly in warm
>[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>> them. The vehicle only has 42, 000 miles on it and I don't know what to do
>> next.

--
Message posted via CarKB.com
http://www.carkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/chrysler/200604/1

--
Glenn Beasley
Chrysler Tech
"Ted Mittelstaedt" > wrote in message
...
>
> "maxpower" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >
> >
> > "Ted Mittelstaedt" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > "Ken Weitzel" > wrote in message
> > > news:sEx_f.14509$gO.7445@pd7tw3no...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > D. Dean via CarKB.com wrote:
> > > > > Ken,
> > > > > Thanks for letting me know about your brake problem. I'm of the
> > opinion
> > > that
> > > > > it might be wise to replace the rear brakes. The only thing I'm
> > > wondering is
> > > > > could it be something wrong in the ABS?
> > > > >
> > > > > Don
> > > >
> > > > Hi Don...
> > > >
> > > > I stand ready to be corrected by the mechanics here, but I
> > > > suspect that your abs is working fine... proving it every
> > > > time you've stopped lately
> > > >
> > > > Willing to bet you a dollar to a doughnut that you have
> > > > exactly the same problem I had, with the only difference
> > > > being that the old Olds had no abs.
> > > >
> > > > So - everytime I braked the wheel locked up solid; whereas your
> > > > abs is preventing lock up. Then the abs releasing the brakes
> > > > causes the whump sound everytime it applies/releases, and the
> > > > jiggle you're feeling in the pedal is just normal for the abs.
> > > >
> > > > If dollars are a little tight, and/or service is far away,
> > > > it was pretty easy to change (rebuild) the wheel cylinder.
> > > > Toughest part of changing it is getting the old fitting off
> > > > (you need the correct wrenches). Then naturally you have to
> > > > bleed the brakes. Rebuilding would be even easier, though you'd
> > > > have to get ahold of a hone.
> > > >
> > > > And once more, I'm absolutely convinced that you have to change
> > > > the pads. Once they're contaminated there just ain't no
> > > > amount of cleaning and sanding that will save them permanently.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > You got to be really careful when changing calipers or wheel cylinders
> on
> > > a car with ABS. If you allow too much air into the brake lines, and
the
> > air
> > > gets up into the ABS controller valves, you can NOT bleed them
yourself,
> > it
> > > must
> > > be done with a scan tool. (and not a $199 cheapie, either)
> > >
> > > I would try having an assistant sitting in the car, loosen the brake
> line
> > > just a bit,
> > > then get all the bolts and such out, then quickly undo the brake line
> and
> > > then
> > > slap the new cylinder in, then quickly tighten the line and then have
> the
> > > assistant
> > > start pressing the petal and get the bleed cycle going. And make sure
> the
> > > master cylinder is full, if it sucks air, your screwed.
> > >
> > > I've never bothered rebuilding wheel cylinders, the cost of new ones
is
> > > cheap
> > > enough to just go new.
> > >
> > > Ted
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > Ted, bleeding air or even replacing the calipers or wheel cylinders
aren't
> a
> > problem. The problem occurs when the hydraulic (ABS) lines or hydraulic
> > assembly has been opened, that's when it requires the use of the DRB
brake
> > bleed function to be used.
> >
>
> How do you replace the wheel cylinder or caliper without opening
> the hydraulic line?
>
> Ted
>
>
The base brake system must be bled anytime air is permitted to enter the
hydraulic system, due to disconnection of brake lines, hoses or components.
The ABS system, particularly the HCU, should only be bled when the HCU is
replaced or removed from the vehicle, or if there is reason to believe the
HCU has ingested air. Under most circumstances that would require brake
bleeding, only the base brake system needs to be bled.

The ABS portion of the brake system MUST be bled separately. This bleeding
procedure requires the use of the DRB.

Don,

Is this what you are experiencing? If so, it's the same disease as ours
that Chrysler fixed:

Make: CHRYSLER
Model: TOWN AND COUNTRY
Year: 1996
Type: MULTIPURPOSE PASSENGER VEHICLE
Service Bulletin Number: 051695
NHTSA Item Number: 46507
Summary Description:
BULLETIN APPLIES TO VEHICLES BUILT PRIOR TO DEC. 5, 1995 (MDH 1205XX). A
MOANING NOISE FROM THE REAR BRAKES DURING LIGHT BRAKE PEDAL EFFORT STOPS OR
REAR BRAKE SHOES REQUIRE REPLACMENT. BULLETIN INVOLVES THE REPLACEMENT OF
THE REAR BRAKE SHOES, BRAKE DRUMS AND THE INSTALLATION OF ADDITIONAL BRAKE
SHOE SPRINGS.


"D. Dean via CarKB.com" <u20685@uwe> wrote in message
news:5eab4922cef8a@uwe...
> Ken,
> I checked the National Highway Safety web site for recalls for this
problem
> and there were none. Our local Chrysler dealer is not too reputable and
I'd
> be hard pressed to take any vehicle there for service. There is one 50
miles
> away that I trust. I guess I'll make an appointment there.
> Thanks for your help.
> Don
>
> KWS wrote:
> >We bought our 96 T&C new and had a bunch of problems with it in the first
> >few years. Reading your post caused me to recall that we also had this
> >problem with ours.
> >
> >If I remember properly, it was some sort of design problem that merited
> >either a recall or a TSB. Chrysler fixed ours under warranty. I suggest
you
> >do a little research on line and, if you can find a reputable one,
discuss
> >it with your friendly Chrysler dealer.
> >
> >Good luck.
> >
> >Ken
> >
> >> My '96 Town and Country started making noises a couple of years ago
when
> >> braking. Noise seems to eminate from the rear drums. Particularly in
warm
> >[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> >> them. The vehicle only has 42, 000 miles on it and I don't know what
to do
> >> next.
>
> --
> Message posted via CarKB.com
> http://www.carkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/chrysler/200604/1