Priceless!

I got a phone call yesterday from a customer that gets an oil change here
once ina while and he asked me "do you have to remove the cam bolts to
change the timing belt in my 3.5 liter engine"and I said "no"he tells me
that is vehicle is a a shop near his home wich is about 50 miles from here
and the mechanic working on his car tiold him they may break one of the cam
bolts in the process of changing the timing belt.
so he asked me to call the mechanic and tell him not to remove the bolts
,well being the curious person I am I called.
ring ring:napa aouto care
me;can I speak to barry (name change)
barry;how can I help you?
me;hey barry I have a friend who's vehicle you are working on he tells me
you are changing his water pump and timing belt and that you may braek a
bolt?
barry; yes one of the cam bolts is stuck
me; why are you removing the cam bolts?
barry;look here pal if you think you can take the front cover off this
thing without removing those bolts you bring your ass down here and do
it,you can even use my tools and my lift to do it.
me;well I called a chrysler dealer and they told me you are going to
florida via new mexico you don't need to remove the bolts to get the cover
off.
barry;(very angry) look MFer you bring your ass down here and I will show
you you are an idiot.
thats when I started saying yes sir I apologize and I didn't mean to
upset you I am just looking out for a friend and I hung up on him, I called
my customer and told him to have his vehicle towed to me and I will take
care of your vehicle, he says "yeah but you guys are more expensive I can't
afford to do that" and I say "how much are they charging you" $870.00 he
says,I almost fell of my stool,Itold him we can do it for half that,he is
here today with parts in a box.

In article >,
"TNKEV" > wrote:

> I got a phone call yesterday from a customer that gets an oil change here
> once ina while and he asked me "do you have to remove the cam bolts to
> change the timing belt in my 3.5 liter engine"and I said "no"

<snip>

Maybe Barry was being prudent and was also changing the two
O-rings between the back half of the front cover and the engine
block.

I do, every time I replace a water pump and timing belt on a 3.5.

Maybe Barry was being prudent and was also changing the two O-rings
between the back half of the front cover and the engine block.
>
I do, every time I replace a water pump and timing belt on a 3.5.

And do you charge $870.00?

Richard.

I agree that one cam bolt (the passenger side if I recall correctly) needs
to come out to get the cover off and get access to the O-Ring.

From personal experience, take the extra 30 minutes and remove the
bolt/cover then replace the 3 rear O-rings. Remember to properly clean up
the aluminum cover plate and the cast iron block channels that the ring
slips into since they will undoubtedly be badly pitted/corroded from the use
of dissimilar metals in the design. I also use a small amount of RTV sealant
on the O-Rings to assure a good seal and fill in the pitted area after a
thorough wire brushing.

As to the need to remove the cam bolt to replace the timing belt or the
water pump, this is not necessary unless you are changing the rear O-Rings.
Maybe the shop was confused and was talking about the crankshaft balancer
bolt? (Which also need not be removed since you can coerce the belt around
it if you try. But, makes more sense given this situation.)

If you are doing the timing belt, do replace the water pump and all the
O-Rings too. In the end it will save you time and money to do it all the
first time.



"aarcuda69062" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "TNKEV" > wrote:
>
> > I got a phone call yesterday from a customer that gets an oil change
here
> > once ina while and he asked me "do you have to remove the cam bolts to
> > change the timing belt in my 3.5 liter engine"and I said "no"
>
> <snip>
>
> Maybe Barry was being prudent and was also changing the two
> O-rings between the back half of the front cover and the engine
> block.
>
> I do, every time I replace a water pump and timing belt on a 3.5.

In article >,
"Richard" <rfeirste at nycap.rr.com> wrote:

> Maybe Barry was being prudent and was also changing the two O-rings
> between the back half of the front cover and the engine block.
> >
> I do, every time I replace a water pump and timing belt on a 3.5.
>
> And do you charge $870.00?
>
> Richard.

Nope.

In article >,
"Bob Shuman" > wrote:

> I agree that one cam bolt (the passenger side if I recall correctly) needs
> to come out to get the cover off and get access to the O-Ring.
>
> From personal experience, take the extra 30 minutes and remove the
> bolt/cover then replace the 3 rear O-rings. Remember to properly clean up
> the aluminum cover plate and the cast iron block channels that the ring
> slips into since they will undoubtedly be badly pitted/corroded from the use
> of dissimilar metals in the design. I also use a small amount of RTV sealant
> on the O-Rings to assure a good seal and fill in the pitted area after a
> thorough wire brushing.
>
> As to the need to remove the cam bolt to replace the timing belt or the
> water pump, this is not necessary unless you are changing the rear O-Rings.
> Maybe the shop was confused and was talking about the crankshaft balancer
> bolt? (Which also need not be removed since you can coerce the belt around
> it if you try. But, makes more sense given this situation.)
>
> If you are doing the timing belt, do replace the water pump and all the
> O-Rings too. In the end it will save you time and money to do it all the
> first time.

Agreed 100%. Sounds like you do the job exactly as I do them and
probably for the same reasons.

Remember, we're getting this story third hand, and I'm certain
it's somewhat colored by the fact that TNKEV failed in educating
his customer and the subsequent loss of repeat business on an
easy and profitable job. i.e., TNKEVs oil change special customer
left his establishment with some bad impressions for -some-
reason.

"aarcuda69062" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Bob Shuman" > wrote:
>
> > I agree that one cam bolt (the passenger side if I recall correctly)
needs
> > to come out to get the cover off and get access to the O-Ring.
> >
> > From personal experience, take the extra 30 minutes and remove the
> > bolt/cover then replace the 3 rear O-rings. Remember to properly clean
up
> > the aluminum cover plate and the cast iron block channels that the ring
> > slips into since they will undoubtedly be badly pitted/corroded from the
use
> > of dissimilar metals in the design. I also use a small amount of RTV
sealant
> > on the O-Rings to assure a good seal and fill in the pitted area after a
> > thorough wire brushing.
> >
> > As to the need to remove the cam bolt to replace the timing belt or the
> > water pump, this is not necessary unless you are changing the rear
O-Rings.
> > Maybe the shop was confused and was talking about the crankshaft
balancer
> > bolt? (Which also need not be removed since you can coerce the belt
around
> > it if you try. But, makes more sense given this situation.)
> >
> > If you are doing the timing belt, do replace the water pump and all the
> > O-Rings too. In the end it will save you time and money to do it all
the
> > first time.
>
> Agreed 100%. Sounds like you do the job exactly as I do them and
> probably for the same reasons.
>
> Remember, we're getting this story third hand, and I'm certain
> it's somewhat colored by the fact that TNKEV failed in educating
> his customer and the subsequent loss of repeat business on an
> easy and profitable job. i.e., TNKEVs oil change special customer
> left his establishment with some bad impressions for -some-
> reason.
My customer lives about 50 miles from here and works about 1 mile from here,
he does come in for regular oil changes.
what he failed to tell me is that he was leaking coolant,the o'rings are
being replaced as we speak and saving my customer a little over $200.00
including his tow bill.
he has also promised to never take it to an outside garage again, and I
did tell him they were attempting to repair his vehicle correctly they were
just ripping him off.
people always think the dealer is more expensive but that is not true in
every case.

"TNKEV" > wrote in message
...
>
> "aarcuda69062" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >,
> > "Bob Shuman" > wrote:
> >
> > > I agree that one cam bolt (the passenger side if I recall correctly)
> needs
> > > to come out to get the cover off and get access to the O-Ring.
> > >
> > > From personal experience, take the extra 30 minutes and remove the
> > > bolt/cover then replace the 3 rear O-rings. Remember to properly
clean
> up
> > > the aluminum cover plate and the cast iron block channels that the
ring
> > > slips into since they will undoubtedly be badly pitted/corroded from
the
> use
> > > of dissimilar metals in the design. I also use a small amount of RTV
> sealant
> > > on the O-Rings to assure a good seal and fill in the pitted area after
a
> > > thorough wire brushing.
> > >
> > > As to the need to remove the cam bolt to replace the timing belt or
the
> > > water pump, this is not necessary unless you are changing the rear
> O-Rings.
> > > Maybe the shop was confused and was talking about the crankshaft
> balancer
> > > bolt? (Which also need not be removed since you can coerce the belt
> around
> > > it if you try. But, makes more sense given this situation.)
> > >
> > > If you are doing the timing belt, do replace the water pump and all
the
> > > O-Rings too. In the end it will save you time and money to do it all
> the
> > > first time.
> >
> > Agreed 100%. Sounds like you do the job exactly as I do them and
> > probably for the same reasons.
> >
> > Remember, we're getting this story third hand, and I'm certain
> > it's somewhat colored by the fact that TNKEV failed in educating
> > his customer and the subsequent loss of repeat business on an
> > easy and profitable job. i.e., TNKEVs oil change special customer
> > left his establishment with some bad impressions for -some-
> > reason.
> My customer lives about 50 miles from here and works about 1 mile from
here,
> he does come in for regular oil changes.
> what he failed to tell me is that he was leaking coolant,the o'rings are
> being replaced as we speak and saving my customer a little over $200.00
> including his tow bill.
> he has also promised to never take it to an outside garage again, and I
> did tell him they were attempting to repair his vehicle correctly they
were
> just ripping him off.
> people always think the dealer is more expensive but that is not true in
> every case.
>
OMG dont mention dealer to aarcuda!!!

In article >,
"TNKEV" > wrote:

> I did tell him they were attempting to repair his vehicle correctly they were
> just ripping him off.

It's a shame that your original post failed to convey that
message...

> people always think the dealer is more expensive but that is not true in
> every case.

Quite true. Had that customer put a little effort into checking
around, he probably could have saved himself some grief.

The part that confuses me is; if this customer puts on 100 miles
a day commuting to work, and your shop is the one that does the
oil service, how did the coolant leak get past your mechanic on
the last oil change? (given that in 12 years experience with the
3.5, they don't generally just start gushing coolant from the
pump/o-rings)

In article >,
"maxpower" > wrote:

> OMG dont mention dealer to aarcuda!!!

I don't have a problem with dealers, just prima-donnas.