A Spark is a Spark is a Spark

On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 04:09:08 GMT, y_p_w > wrote:

>
>
>aarcuda69062 wrote:
>
>> In article >,
>> JazzMan > wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>They aren't bad for racing. In fact, they were developed by
>>>Porsche for the 917-30 race program. The 917-30 used the engine
>>>as a stressed member of the chassis, basically bolting the rear
>>>suspension and body work to it instead of having a frame. This
>>>design meant that you had to disassemble the whole car to change
>>>the plugs, so the platinum plugs were developed so that they could
>>>go a whole season on one set without changing them.
>>
>>
>> Well, ya know there's always going to be one obscure application
>> that breaks he rule...
>>
>> But thanks for pointing out that it was for longevity reasons and
>> NOT some mish-mosh about combustion chambers and/or compression
>> ratio.
>
>I do agree that the large majority of the platinum or iridium
>plugs spec'ed by manufacturers is for the longevity for both
>emissions and marketing purposes. It also helps with V engines
>where the back plugs can be a real PITA to reach.
>
>BTW - back to the copper thing - apparently one reason for
>copper cores is that copper conducts heat exceptionally well,
>and the core will help to transfer heat from the center
>electrode.
>
>There are a few car models that only spec these oddball double
>ground platinum electrode plugs. I think the larger gap and
>hotter spark of my '95 Integra GS-R engine might have resulted
>in premature erosion of standard nickel-alloy electrodes (i.e.
>before the standard Honda 30K change period). But it's not as
>if a suitable standard plug isn't going to work - just not a
>standard interval. I've heard of weekend racers deliberately
>going with standard plugs in cars factory spec'ed for plats.
>
>Of course I'm not trying to lend any creedence to our fou
>mouthed friend. :-)

"Friend" my hairy bunghole.

Get off the crack pipe, your pal dufus ****ed on my post to the OP
without provocation and got told to ****, rightly so.
His post bashing my advice to the OP is still there, youre in denial.
Of my qualified advice, keep worthless options to yourself and you
wont rightfully get told to **** off.

Quite obvious that these few turds with their attitude dont have any
freinds anytime here or anywhere else.

Up to 1999 I'd spent years in this group answering questions to those
who came here daily, not once did I ever have some arse clowns like
you try to heap **** on any of my advice.

Never had anyone back then stupid enough to leap on my replies to
original posters here and claim I am wrong with nothing to back it
up..

Never had anyone so far up themselves in here they couldnt simply give
their own advice to the OP and resist playing hall monitor trying to
correct the advice given by others.

A fact we know, only people who feel a need to do that are people who
obviously dont beleive in their own advice given and have to bash the
advice of others to sound credible themselves, they are anything but
credible.

So whats changed in 5 yrs.

Now we have small children with internet access on cable, knob fisting
serial pests like your buddies here.
Think they you know something but they know **** so they roam around
groups arguing about that which they have no knowledge of, just to get
attention.

Ask them why the feel the urge to do it an all we will get is a load
of **** weak excuses from them.

In article >,
RV > wrote:

> **** off bunghole

You were going to tell us about the copper plating.

In article >,
RV > wrote:

> >I'll repeat;
> >no one in their right mind would use "racing" as the
> >basis for explaining something that relates to modern day
> >emissions durability requirements.
>
> > that relates to modern day emissions durability requirements.
>
> Thats just drivel

That's not an answer.

> >> Open your eyes for a change.
> >> Any vehicle that specifies a plug in the book that is a plat plug.
> >
> >And they are?
>
> They two holes in the front of your head stupid.

Another no answer.


> >Not really. All you've offered so far is some techno-babble
> >about combustion chambers and compression ratios.
>
> All youve done is troll.

No, I called you on your bull**** story.


> >And racing proves what again?
> >You're some big shot "racer" so we should all kiss your ass and
> >swallow whatever bull **** offered?
> >Ain't gonna happen.
>
> Too dense.

Another no answer, damn, Dave is on a roll.

> >And your technical points can be found where?
>
> You dispute it, then you prove it or pull your head in dufus.

I have proven it. Apparently, it went right over your head.

> >Picking a spark plug according to application from a
> >manufacturers catalog is "crap" is it?
> >i can see why you have time for all this "racing" nonsense, I'll
> >bet that your mechanicing business leaves you with plenty of free
> >time.
>
> You are so dense you have no concept of the bleed down of technology
> that came from motor racing.
> Your are dumber than dog**** no doubt about it.

I understand the concept perfectly, however, it has nothing to do
with the claims that you're making and I suspect a lot to do with
your lack of answers.

> >Again; numerous vehicles have come OEM with both platinum and
> >non-platinum spark plugs with NO combustion chamber re-design and
> >NO compression ratio change.
> >Pretty much blows your 'theories' out of the water.
>
> Pretty much shows youre pig ignorant.

Have someone read that paragraph to you.

> >Sure I do, it means that you're full of ****.
>
> Wrong again stupid

Maybe you would like to start with the "copper plating."

> >
> >> 35 yrs on tools, bull****, youre a child.
> >
> >'Scuze me?
> >And your 20 years at the local Jiffy-Lube is good for what?
>
> We dont have "jiffy lube" here you bunghole.

Okay, then tell us the name of the quick lube joint that you've
been working at in Australia.

> But Id suggest they are more qualified than a mop jockey like you.

You also suspect that the reference to "copper" in a spark plug
is some sort of plating.
If I were you, I wouldn't trust my suspicions too far.

In article >,
RV > wrote:

> >Bosch platinum plugs should be avoided no matter what the
> >application, Japanese, Euro or domestic.
>
> Bull****
> Youve never seen a European car let alone worked on one.

Do you have any idea how ridiculous that sounds?

<snip>

> For you all there will be is more vomit to mop up.

You were going to tell us about the "copper plating."

In article >,
RV > wrote:

> >Well, ya know there's always going to be one obscure application
> >that breaks he rule...
>
> Glug glug glug, and down you go to the bottom like a stone.

You can wish in one hand, and **** in the other...

In article >,
RV > wrote:

> >Of course I'm not trying to lend any creedence to our fou
> >mouthed friend. :-)
>
> "Friend" my hairy bunghole.

Fixation.

> Get off the crack pipe, your pal dufus ****ed on my post to the OP
> without provocation and got told to ****, rightly so.
> His post bashing my advice to the OP is still there, youre in denial.
> Of my qualified advice, keep worthless options to yourself and you
> wont rightfully get told to **** off.

Your advice is "qualified" because you're a "racer?"

> Quite obvious that these few turds with their attitude dont have any
> freinds anytime here or anywhere else.

You're projecting.

> Up to 1999 I'd spent years in this group answering questions to those
> who came here daily, not once did I ever have some arse clowns like
> you try to heap **** on any of my advice.

Maybe up to 1999 you hadn't posted anything quite so ridiculous.

> Never had anyone back then stupid enough to leap on my replies to
> original posters here and claim I am wrong with nothing to back it
> up..

Well Dave, I was right here in 1999 and for years before, so
maybe your memory is as frail as your knowledge of spark plugs.

> Never had anyone so far up themselves in here they couldnt simply give
> their own advice to the OP and resist playing hall monitor trying to
> correct the advice given by others.

Of course, your demands that you must be right because you are a
"racer" aren't 'so far up yourself.'

> A fact we know, only people who feel a need to do that are people who
> obviously dont beleive in their own advice given and have to bash the
> advice of others to sound credible themselves, they are anything but
> credible.

So go have a nice cry.

> So whats changed in 5 yrs.
>
> Now we have small children with internet access on cable, knob fisting
> serial pests like your buddies here.

Or, maybe there are a number of people here who flat out disagree
with your claims and feel compelled to correct you.

> Think they you know something but they know **** so they roam around
> groups arguing about that which they have no knowledge of, just to get
> attention.

You must be the only person who knows something.
The burden must be enormous.

> Ask them why the feel the urge to do it an all we will get is a load
> of **** weak excuses from them.

Actually, I haven't seen you ask that question yet.

In article >,
"Shep" > wrote:

> AAR, sorry I got you into this, used plain ole Auto lite A22's in my 64 Max
> wedge,for an entire season, used to chanfe them from guilt, 400 runs! 12.5:1
> CR for real.

Don't be sorry Shep, this reminds me of a few years back when
Dean Dardwin was spewing his bull**** in the Chevy truck groups.

I run NGK BPR6ES's in my 340 and like you, change them out of
guilt for lack of a better reason..

Got another 340 on the stand, TRW 12:1 pistons, it's getting
Edelbrock open chamber heads as soon as I find a buyer for the TA
heads that are on it. Should yield a CR of 11.3:1 which is right
on the edge for 93 octane pump gas.

larry moe 'n curly wrote:
>
> aarcuda69062 wrote:
>
>
>>Platinum plugs are strictly a maintenance sell.
>
>
>>Racing would be about the worst place to run a platinum spark
>>plug.
>
>
> I'm a novice and have two questions:
>
> 1. Why are platinums bad for racing? I thought that they should be
> able to fire better than regular plugs because platinum was better at
> standing high temperatures.
>

Actually, I don't think they'd necessarily be bad for racing, but maybe
not needed as much.

However, if one were running a rich mixture, or had loose clearances in
a racing engine that had long events, I'd think it might be possible to
run a range or two higher hotter plug to prevent fouling.

One problem with racing engines used to be fouling during starting, or
during long yellows.

aarcuda69062 wrote:

> In article >,
> JazzMan > wrote:
>
>
>
>>They aren't bad for racing. In fact, they were developed by
>>Porsche for the 917-30 race program. The 917-30 used the engine
>>as a stressed member of the chassis, basically bolting the rear
>>suspension and body work to it instead of having a frame. This
>>design meant that you had to disassemble the whole car to change
>>the plugs, so the platinum plugs were developed so that they could
>>go a whole season on one set without changing them.
>
>
> Well, ya know there's always going to be one obscure application
> that breaks he rule...
>
> But thanks for pointing out that it was for longevity reasons and
> NOT some mish-mosh about combustion chambers and/or compression
> ratio.

Certainly people who have added aftermarket forced induction and
more powerful igntion systems to compensate. I don't think it
ncessitates the use of platinums, although I suppose the higher
heat might erode the ground electrode faster. Anyone doing those
kinds of mods would probably also check/replace the plugs often.

> I have vivid memories of watching the 917s race at Road America
> in the early 70s...
>
>
>>>2. Why are some cars really fussy about the type of plugs? I've heard
>>>of Hondas starting to run funny after a few hundred miles if anything
>>>but NGKs are installed in them, and one person had a VW Golf that ran
>>>funny with anything but a certain Bosch silver core plug. I realize
>>>that modern ignition systems can monitor spark performance and make
>>>adjustments, but shouldn't that make them less fussy about plugs, not
>>>more?
>>
>>I know that the Fiero DIS systems will not run properly on
>>the platinum plugs for more than a few thousand miles before
>>the plugs are junk. Other cars seem to work just fine on them.
>
>
> Including double platinum Delco or Autolite plugs?

My mechanic (Japanese make specialist) absolutely refuses to use
Bosch platinums. Found that the center electrode just disappeared
in some cars. Sticks with Denso now.

RoB <RoB wrote:
> I am looking at replacing my spark plugs in a 3.8l GM engine (high mileage)
> and was looking at those NGK G-Power Plugs but a friend of mine says just
> put the cheapy AC Delco, because the platinum won't make any difference
> except possible quicker starts, but not worth the money... Is there any
> performance difference between copper plugs and platinum?
> Any suggestions would be appreciated..
>
>
> RoB.
>
>
For most cars I've worked on and owned... no problemo.. just throw in
the stock replacement plugs by brand X and away you go.

However... my buddy owns an 04 PT Cruiser. It uses a specific part #
for the plugs and actually set a check engine light a week after he
bought it (used) because the wrong plugs were in it. IIRC it's a Neon
engine, but you can't use Neon plugs - wrong heat range. (but I could
be wrong on that... it's my friend's car so I wasn't at the shop.) (The
check engine light was excessive misfires.)

And, fwiw, if you're running Nitrous you shouldn't run platinums, which
means I change the plugs yearly in my Trans Am.... which takes a good
afternoon and must be done with a cold engine because you're under there
with your arm squished up against the exhaust for a while.

Ray