Best exterior rubber protector and renewer?

No, I do not jest; I don't remember many things from the 60's, but I
distinctly remember the VW mechanic telling me that. Maybe he had some
sinister motive - like ruining all of my rubber parts so I would need to
replace them. Yes, vinegar is an acid - acetic acid I believe, but I am not
sure that it would really damage the rubber, but I also don't really think
it would do it any good. The Camco Seal Conditioner that I mentioned in my
first reply is still my best suggestion. I am not a chemist so I am not sure
what vegetable oil or acetic acid would do to rubber; that is why I tend to
buy products made and sold by professionals, people who supposedly know what
they are doing.

TRCSr

"Chris D'Agnolo" > wrote in message
...
> Vinegar? Surely you jest!? Vinegar is a mild acid iirc. It sure wouldn't
> replace any oils in the rubber. Might dry them out but ...... Now my wife
> might come up with something like that if someone had once told her
> 'vegetable oil will do the trick, ya, the same stuff you use in vinegar
> and oil salad dressing' . Could that be it, a mix up?
>
> Chris
> 99BBB
>
> "TRCSr" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Many years ago a mechanic at a VW dealer where I bought my first RV
>> (Westfalia van) told me that plain ole vinegar was good for rejuvenating
>> rubber by replacing the rubber oils, but I don't think it would add any
>> amount of protection.
>>
>> TRCSr
>>
>> "TRCSr" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> You might go to a camping/RV supply dealer (like Camping World) and look
>>> for a product called "Slide out Rubber Seal Conditioner" made by Camco.
>>> This is a foam that is intended for the rubber seals on the slide outs
>>> on motor homes and trailers, but is a good all-around rubber conditioner
>>> and protector. If you follow the directions, after thoroughly cleaning
>>> the rubber surface, I think you would be satisfied with the results. I
>>> have used it on several vehicles seals and it seems to work great. Maybe
>>> others on this site have more info on it.
>>>
>>> Good luck,
>>>
>>> TRCSr
>>>
>>> "Pat" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> '91 Miata.
>>>>
>>>> The exterior rubber around the windshield, around the door windows and
>>>> window wiper blades and door jams.
>>>>
>>>> Getting hard and not very supple over the years.
>>>>
>>>> I want to renew them, perk them up, and protect against upcoming
>>>> winter.
>>>>
>>>> I have found nothing at AUTO ZONE and another auto chain. They have
>>>> vinyl protectors but nothing specifically for rubber. I'm not
>>>> interested in the tire specific products that are aimed at shiny
>>>> tires.
>>>>
>>>> Any tips?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>>
>>>> Pat
>>>
>

Well, I tend to like a good home remedy sort of thing when it does the job
well. Maybe the vinegar simply removes all the oxidized rubber and gets down
to the better rubber just below!? It's possible I guess.

cd
99BBB


"TRCSr" > wrote in message
...
> No, I do not jest; I don't remember many things from the 60's, but I
> distinctly remember the VW mechanic telling me that. Maybe he had some
> sinister motive - like ruining all of my rubber parts so I would need to
> replace them. Yes, vinegar is an acid - acetic acid I believe, but I am
> not sure that it would really damage the rubber, but I also don't really
> think it would do it any good. The Camco Seal Conditioner that I mentioned
> in my first reply is still my best suggestion. I am not a chemist so I am
> not sure what vegetable oil or acetic acid would do to rubber; that is why
> I tend to buy products made and sold by professionals, people who
> supposedly know what they are doing.
>
> TRCSr
>
> "Chris D'Agnolo" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Vinegar? Surely you jest!? Vinegar is a mild acid iirc. It sure wouldn't
>> replace any oils in the rubber. Might dry them out but ...... Now my
>> wife might come up with something like that if someone had once told her
>> 'vegetable oil will do the trick, ya, the same stuff you use in vinegar
>> and oil salad dressing' . Could that be it, a mix up?
>>
>> Chris
>> 99BBB
>>
>> "TRCSr" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Many years ago a mechanic at a VW dealer where I bought my first RV
>>> (Westfalia van) told me that plain ole vinegar was good for rejuvenating
>>> rubber by replacing the rubber oils, but I don't think it would add any
>>> amount of protection.
>>>
>>> TRCSr
>>>
>>> "TRCSr" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> You might go to a camping/RV supply dealer (like Camping World) and
>>>> look for a product called "Slide out Rubber Seal Conditioner" made by
>>>> Camco. This is a foam that is intended for the rubber seals on the
>>>> slide outs on motor homes and trailers, but is a good all-around rubber
>>>> conditioner and protector. If you follow the directions, after
>>>> thoroughly cleaning the rubber surface, I think you would be satisfied
>>>> with the results. I have used it on several vehicles seals and it seems
>>>> to work great. Maybe others on this site have more info on it.
>>>>
>>>> Good luck,
>>>>
>>>> TRCSr
>>>>
>>>> "Pat" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> '91 Miata.
>>>>>
>>>>> The exterior rubber around the windshield, around the door windows and
>>>>> window wiper blades and door jams.
>>>>>
>>>>> Getting hard and not very supple over the years.
>>>>>
>>>>> I want to renew them, perk them up, and protect against upcoming
>>>>> winter.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have found nothing at AUTO ZONE and another auto chain. They have
>>>>> vinyl protectors but nothing specifically for rubber. I'm not
>>>>> interested in the tire specific products that are aimed at shiny
>>>>> tires.
>>>>>
>>>>> Any tips?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>
>>>>> Pat
>>>>
>>

The door seals etc were probably once made of natural rubber. Now
they're synthetic rubber - EPDM. Weather resistance is much better
than natural rubber. (They still use natural rubber in tyres, along with
styrene butadiene (SBR and BR) synthetic rubber, and after a few years
or less the sidewall surface gets crazed and chalky and loses
elasticity). Silicone oil makes it look nicer, they even use in the
tyre factories for that reason.
They wouldn't (or shouldn't) use "plasticiser" oils in EPDM mouldings,
which would cause shrinkage / loss of elasticity when they finally
evaporate or leach out, so something like silicone oil should be safe,
though it might not be safe on some flexible plasticised materials, like
plasticised PVC in parts not designed for exterior exposure.
The same property that makes rubber molecules rubbery (double bonds)
also makes rubber vulnerable to UV light. Silicone rubber was going to
be the answer to that, but wasn't as good as as hoped for in practice,
and usually has very poor tear resistance.
The window seals on my 20+ year old truck, which is never garaged are
still okay. Judging by the very black residue on the surface which
cleans off on a rag, the loading of carbon black in the rubber is very
high, and that carbon black is preventing UV from penetrating and
damaging it further.
I just use silicone oil from a spray can to clean/condition it. I don't
think any "UV absorber" in some protectorant is going to make any
significant difference, as you're not going to be able to get enough on
and keep it there for long enough, and they are usually sacrificial and
break down fast. Perhaps some anti-oxidants could help, so perhaps some
proprietary products do have some small advantage.
I heard that ATF is good for restoring the look of under-bonnet rubber
components, but I'm not game to try it myself. I wouldn't use any oils
or solvents or waxes on weather seals. EPDM is relatively very weather
resistant, oxidation and ozone resistant, but not resistant to
hydrocarbons. For that reason, (and to save getting it all over the
paintwork) if using silicone spray, spray it on a rag and wipe it on, as
if sprayed directly then it will still contain HC propellants. I know
that some formulators of solvent-based "tyre shine" cut silicone oil in
hydrocarbon solvent, so I'd really avoid that as well. Water based
emulsions are probably okay, but IMO a bit pointless/expensive.

Well ****, all of us 'know-a-little's give our 2 cents (probably not worth
that) and then the lurking 'rubber engineer' gives us a serious lesson in
rubber! ;-) It is amazing, the amount of knowledge different people have on
different things, eh? Hey 'Me' thanks for the lesson! And what in the world
is your name? We can't go around calling you me, that would start to sound
like the old comedy routine!

Chris
99BBB

"Me" > wrote in message
...
> The door seals etc were probably once made of natural rubber. Now they're
> synthetic rubber - EPDM. Weather resistance is much better than natural
> rubber. (They still use natural rubber in tyres, along with styrene
> butadiene (SBR and BR) synthetic rubber, and after a few years or less the
> sidewall surface gets crazed and chalky and loses elasticity). Silicone
> oil makes it look nicer, they even use in the tyre factories for that
> reason.
> They wouldn't (or shouldn't) use "plasticiser" oils in EPDM mouldings,
> which would cause shrinkage / loss of elasticity when they finally
> evaporate or leach out, so something like silicone oil should be safe,
> though it might not be safe on some flexible plasticised materials, like
> plasticised PVC in parts not designed for exterior exposure.
> The same property that makes rubber molecules rubbery (double bonds) also
> makes rubber vulnerable to UV light. Silicone rubber was going to be the
> answer to that, but wasn't as good as as hoped for in practice, and
> usually has very poor tear resistance.
> The window seals on my 20+ year old truck, which is never garaged are
> still okay. Judging by the very black residue on the surface which cleans
> off on a rag, the loading of carbon black in the rubber is very high, and
> that carbon black is preventing UV from penetrating and damaging it
> further.
> I just use silicone oil from a spray can to clean/condition it. I don't
> think any "UV absorber" in some protectorant is going to make any
> significant difference, as you're not going to be able to get enough on
> and keep it there for long enough, and they are usually sacrificial and
> break down fast. Perhaps some anti-oxidants could help, so perhaps some
> proprietary products do have some small advantage.
> I heard that ATF is good for restoring the look of under-bonnet rubber
> components, but I'm not game to try it myself. I wouldn't use any oils or
> solvents or waxes on weather seals. EPDM is relatively very weather
> resistant, oxidation and ozone resistant, but not resistant to
> hydrocarbons. For that reason, (and to save getting it all over the
> paintwork) if using silicone spray, spray it on a rag and wipe it on, as
> if sprayed directly then it will still contain HC propellants. I know
> that some formulators of solvent-based "tyre shine" cut silicone oil in
> hydrocarbon solvent, so I'd really avoid that as well. Water based
> emulsions are probably okay, but IMO a bit pointless/expensive.

Chris D'Agnolo wrote:
> Well ****, all of us 'know-a-little's give our 2 cents (probably not
> worth that) and then the lurking 'rubber engineer' gives us a serious
> lesson in rubber! ;-) It is amazing, the amount of knowledge different
> people have on different things, eh? Hey 'Me' thanks for the lesson! And
> what in the world is your name? We can't go around calling you me, that
> would start to sound like the old comedy routine!
>
> Chris
> 99BBB

I'm just "me", and not a rubber chemist.
An afterthought to below, the suggestion I heard to use ATF (or power
steering fluid) to freshen up under-bonnet rubber isn't a good one.
While that stuff will be formulated to protect/not attack rubber
components in power steering units and auto trans, I'd expect that
rubber is nitrile etc. But coolant hoses are likely to be EPDM, and
although it's got good heat/water/glycol resistance, it doesn't have
good resistance to oils - so IMO it's a bad idea to wipe it down with
ATF etc.

>
> "Me" > wrote in message
> ...
>> The door seals etc were probably once made of natural rubber. Now
>> they're synthetic rubber - EPDM. Weather resistance is much better
>> than natural rubber. (They still use natural rubber in tyres, along
>> with styrene butadiene (SBR and BR) synthetic rubber, and after a few
>> years or less the sidewall surface gets crazed and chalky and loses
>> elasticity). Silicone oil makes it look nicer, they even use in the
>> tyre factories for that reason.
>> They wouldn't (or shouldn't) use "plasticiser" oils in EPDM mouldings,
>> which would cause shrinkage / loss of elasticity when they finally
>> evaporate or leach out, so something like silicone oil should be safe,
>> though it might not be safe on some flexible plasticised materials,
>> like plasticised PVC in parts not designed for exterior exposure.
>> The same property that makes rubber molecules rubbery (double bonds)
>> also makes rubber vulnerable to UV light. Silicone rubber was going
>> to be the answer to that, but wasn't as good as as hoped for in
>> practice, and usually has very poor tear resistance.
>> The window seals on my 20+ year old truck, which is never garaged are
>> still okay. Judging by the very black residue on the surface which
>> cleans off on a rag, the loading of carbon black in the rubber is very
>> high, and that carbon black is preventing UV from penetrating and
>> damaging it further.
>> I just use silicone oil from a spray can to clean/condition it. I
>> don't think any "UV absorber" in some protectorant is going to make
>> any significant difference, as you're not going to be able to get
>> enough on and keep it there for long enough, and they are usually
>> sacrificial and break down fast. Perhaps some anti-oxidants could
>> help, so perhaps some proprietary products do have some small advantage.
>> I heard that ATF is good for restoring the look of under-bonnet rubber
>> components, but I'm not game to try it myself. I wouldn't use any
>> oils or solvents or waxes on weather seals. EPDM is relatively very
>> weather resistant, oxidation and ozone resistant, but not resistant to
>> hydrocarbons. For that reason, (and to save getting it all over the
>> paintwork) if using silicone spray, spray it on a rag and wipe it on,
>> as if sprayed directly then it will still contain HC propellants. I
>> know that some formulators of solvent-based "tyre shine" cut silicone
>> oil in hydrocarbon solvent, so I'd really avoid that as well. Water
>> based emulsions are probably okay, but IMO a bit pointless/expensive.
>

On Nov 15, 6:20*pm, Me > wrote:
> The door seals etc were probably once made of natural rubber. *Now
> they're synthetic rubber - *EPDM. *Weather resistance is much better
> than natural rubber. (They still use natural rubber in tyres, along with
> styrene butadiene (SBR and BR) synthetic rubber, and after a few years
> or less the sidewall surface gets crazed and chalky and loses
> elasticity). *Silicone oil makes it look nicer, they even use in the
> tyre factories for that reason.


QUESTION:

I have a 1991 Miata. Did they use natural rubber in that model year?

I only care about rubber around all the windows, exterior.

Pat wrote:
> On Nov 15, 6:20 pm, Me > wrote:
>> The door seals etc were probably once made of natural rubber. Now
>> they're synthetic rubber - EPDM. Weather resistance is much better
>> than natural rubber. (They still use natural rubber in tyres, along with
>> styrene butadiene (SBR and BR) synthetic rubber, and after a few years
>> or less the sidewall surface gets crazed and chalky and loses
>> elasticity). Silicone oil makes it look nicer, they even use in the
>> tyre factories for that reason.
>
>
> QUESTION:
>
> I have a 1991 Miata. Did they use natural rubber in that model year?
>
> I only care about rubber around all the windows, exterior.
>
When I said "once made of natural rubber", I meant very old vintage cars.
EPDM will have been used for many decades. I think it was invented in
the 1950s, but I can remember cars from the 60s with window seals that
hardened, cracked and crazed quite quickly, so perhaps another less
durable synthetic rubber was still being used long after EPDM was
invented. Also, how long it lasts is going to depend on the properties
of the EPDM and how it is compounded with other materials, as well as
exposure conditions.
I'm confident that the exterior rubber in any Miata will be EPDM.