EGR Again? Died at stop light 98 SL Manual 113K

Would EGR cause car to die at stop light?

I posted a few weeks ago about getting the SES and an EGR code. A couple of
kind people advised about cleaning the valve myself. I haven't done it yet
because it has been a couple of weeks and the SES has not come on again.
I have been noticing the occasional rough idle at stop lights. Usually just
one time it will shake and the RPMs drop from the normal 8 to about 5. (I
also think my miles per gallon may be dropping.)
Tonight on the way home there was the rough idle and it died. It started
right up, I drove a few more blocks, and it died at the next light. It
wouldn't start again.
I left if for an hour, it started, I drove it home. Still no SES, though.

QUESTION:
Could this relate to the original EGR error code, in which case I will clean
it and hope for the best? Or could it be a new problem that I should bring
it in for?

Another Question:
I cannot find anything under the hood resembling the many pictures of the
EGR in my Chilton's. I believe the one in the picture is a Vacuum EGR, and
mine might be the Linear/Electric (?). The one in the book looks round,
grey, and is raised in the center. The only thing I can find is black,
round, and has some hardware on top. Is this the linear valve? If it is, is
it just as easy to remove and clean as the vacuum one?

Thanks a lot for all the help!!!

Sounds like the EGR to me. Mine was cruddied up with carbon and it took a
lot of scrubbing with a toothbrush and some strong Berryman's Throttle Body
Cleaner. Ended up doing it twice as the first time wasn't good enough.

On my dual-cam, it's at the driver's side of the engine between the
air-cleaner hose that goes to the throttle body and the engine. Has two
bolts (10mm socket I think) and a gasket. Electrical plug is on the top.
Easy enough to take off but it's an expensive little bugger if you replace
it.

It may or may not set a code (I think it was 32 on mine), but the stumbling
and rough idle are pretty sure sign it's carboned up.

B~

If I recall correctly, the EGR is under the air intake tube near the
firewall on the driver's side of the engine compartment. You need to remove
the intake and the EGR should be exposed right on the exhaust manifold.
While you have the air intake off and are doing the EGR, also clean the
throttle body and throttle plate real well with some good throttle body or
combustion chamber cleaner (I don't recommend carburetor cleaner as it is
not strong enough), an old toothbrush, and a clean soft rag. The rough idle
symptoms you describe could very well be attributable to a dirty throttle
body/plate. BTW, I'd also replace the air filter as well if you had not
done so recently per the maintenance schedule.

Lastly, if all of this does not solve the rough idle, try throwing a bottle
of Techron fuel injector cleaner into the gas tank following instructions on
the bottle. Dirty or partially clogged injectors could also cause a rough
idle. (This assumes the plugs and wires are in good shape, if they are old
replace them as well if all of the above does not solve your problem.)

Good luck!

Bob
"Richard" > wrote in message
...
> Would EGR cause car to die at stop light?
>
> I have been noticing the occasional rough idle at stop lights. Usually
just
> one time it will shake and the RPMs drop from the normal 8 to about 5. (I
> also think my miles per gallon may be dropping.)
> Tonight on the way home there was the rough idle and it died. It started
> right up, I drove a few more blocks, and it died at the next light. It
> wouldn't start again.
> I left if for an hour, it started, I drove it home. Still no SES, though.
>
> QUESTION:
> Could this relate to the original EGR error code, in which case I will
clean
> it and hope for the best? Or could it be a new problem that I should bring
> it in for?
>
> Another Question:
> I cannot find anything under the hood resembling the many pictures of the
> EGR in my Chilton's. I believe the one in the picture is a Vacuum EGR, and
> mine might be the Linear/Electric (?). The one in the book looks round,
> grey, and is raised in the center. The only thing I can find is black,
> round, and has some hardware on top. Is this the linear valve? If it is,
is
> it just as easy to remove and clean as the vacuum one?

Thanks for the tip. It started again this morning, but I think I'll be going
to get some tools (don't have any) and go to work on this soon! What is
better, carbeurator cleaner or throttle body cleaner?

Not sure how this could relate, if at all, but I've also noticed since it
stalled last night, when the car is off, the brake pedal doesn't go down
like it used to. I usually step on the brake when I start the car. But now I
notice the pedal won't go down until after the car is started. This did not
used to happen.

"B. Peg" > wrote in message
...
> Sounds like the EGR to me. Mine was cruddied up with carbon and it took a
> lot of scrubbing with a toothbrush and some strong Berryman's Throttle
Body
> Cleaner. Ended up doing it twice as the first time wasn't good enough.
>
> On my dual-cam, it's at the driver's side of the engine between the
> air-cleaner hose that goes to the throttle body and the engine. Has two
> bolts (10mm socket I think) and a gasket. Electrical plug is on the top.
> Easy enough to take off but it's an expensive little bugger if you replace
> it.
>
> It may or may not set a code (I think it was 32 on mine), but the
stumbling
> and rough idle are pretty sure sign it's carboned up.
>
> B~
>
>

Just saw this post. Thanks for the info on which cleaner to use!
Once I get the tools and go to work on it, I'll take a look at the plugs and
everything, too.

"Bob Shuman" > wrote in message
...
> If I recall correctly, the EGR is under the air intake tube near the
> firewall on the driver's side of the engine compartment. You need to
remove
> the intake and the EGR should be exposed right on the exhaust manifold.
> While you have the air intake off and are doing the EGR, also clean the
> throttle body and throttle plate real well with some good throttle body or
> combustion chamber cleaner (I don't recommend carburetor cleaner as it is
> not strong enough), an old toothbrush, and a clean soft rag. The rough
idle
> symptoms you describe could very well be attributable to a dirty throttle
> body/plate. BTW, I'd also replace the air filter as well if you had not
> done so recently per the maintenance schedule.
>
> Lastly, if all of this does not solve the rough idle, try throwing a
bottle
> of Techron fuel injector cleaner into the gas tank following instructions
on
> the bottle. Dirty or partially clogged injectors could also cause a rough
> idle. (This assumes the plugs and wires are in good shape, if they are
old
> replace them as well if all of the above does not solve your problem.)
>
> Good luck!
>
> Bob
> "Richard" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Would EGR cause car to die at stop light?
> >
> > I have been noticing the occasional rough idle at stop lights. Usually
> just
> > one time it will shake and the RPMs drop from the normal 8 to about 5.
(I
> > also think my miles per gallon may be dropping.)
> > Tonight on the way home there was the rough idle and it died. It started
> > right up, I drove a few more blocks, and it died at the next light. It
> > wouldn't start again.
> > I left if for an hour, it started, I drove it home. Still no SES,
though.
> >
> > QUESTION:
> > Could this relate to the original EGR error code, in which case I will
> clean
> > it and hope for the best? Or could it be a new problem that I should
bring
> > it in for?
> >
> > Another Question:
> > I cannot find anything under the hood resembling the many pictures of
the
> > EGR in my Chilton's. I believe the one in the picture is a Vacuum EGR,
and
> > mine might be the Linear/Electric (?). The one in the book looks round,
> > grey, and is raised in the center. The only thing I can find is black,
> > round, and has some hardware on top. Is this the linear valve? If it is,
> is
> > it just as easy to remove and clean as the vacuum one?
>
>

"Richard" > wrote in message
...
> Thanks for the tip. It started again this morning, but I think I'll
be going
> to get some tools (don't have any) and go to work on this soon! What
is
> better, carbeurator cleaner or throttle body cleaner?
>
Use throttle body cleaner.

the brake pedal. I believe the brake is vacuum assisted so the running
engine is helping you on the pedal.

B~

I was putting off the cleaning job until next weekend, but today my car
stalled every time it got to normal running temp (usually 1/4 way up on the
guage). It would start fine if I let it cool off for 15 or more minutes, but
as soon as it got to normal running temp, it died again. Between pushing the
car and repeated re-starts, I finally got it home and went to work on it ...

I got the EGR off, but really couldn't see where to clean it. All it has is
one hole, and a thing that looks like a torx head screw that works up and
down when you push it. I think it is the linear valve, and it appears that
it and the solenoid are one piece. I couldn't see a way to separate them,
and I really couldn't get inside it. But I sprayed it with Valvoline
SynPower Carb Choke and Trottle Body Cleaner, scrubbed what I could of it,
and worked the one piece up and down. I put in a new gasket, too.

The car started fine. I let it sit until it was warm and it stalled.

Saturn wants $155 for a new part.

Before I go get a new part, is it certain that this dieing at normal
operating temp relates to that valve?

I did replace the air filter and checked one of the plugs. The plug looked
fine.
BTW - I ran a bottle of carb/injector cleaner through the tank a week before
this all started with the SES and the code 32.

-- Richard

"Richard" > wrote in message
...
> Would EGR cause car to die at stop light?
>
> I posted a few weeks ago about getting the SES and an EGR code. A couple
of
> kind people advised about cleaning the valve myself. I haven't done it yet
> because it has been a couple of weeks and the SES has not come on again.
> I have been noticing the occasional rough idle at stop lights. Usually
just
> one time it will shake and the RPMs drop from the normal 8 to about 5. (I
> also think my miles per gallon may be dropping.)
> Tonight on the way home there was the rough idle and it died. It started
> right up, I drove a few more blocks, and it died at the next light. It
> wouldn't start again.
> I left if for an hour, it started, I drove it home. Still no SES, though.
>
> QUESTION:
> Could this relate to the original EGR error code, in which case I will
clean
> it and hope for the best? Or could it be a new problem that I should bring
> it in for?
>
> Another Question:
> I cannot find anything under the hood resembling the many pictures of the
> EGR in my Chilton's. I believe the one in the picture is a Vacuum EGR, and
> mine might be the Linear/Electric (?). The one in the book looks round,
> grey, and is raised in the center. The only thing I can find is black,
> round, and has some hardware on top. Is this the linear valve? If it is,
is
> it just as easy to remove and clean as the vacuum one?
>
> Thanks a lot for all the help!!!
>
>

yes, as I recall the EGR was primarily accessible from the one exhaust
manifold opening. If it was clogged, then you would have known it because
the linear valve you mention would have not operated smoothly. When I
gently tapped the unit on my concrete garage floor, a lot of carbon fell
out. I used a small flat blade screwdriver to scrape it out and then
polished it afterward with my dremmel tool and a small brush attachment.
After I got all/most of the deposits out, I then as a final step cleaned it
with TB cleaner, a toothbrush and a clean rag. When done, the valve
operated like new again so I reinstalled with a new gasket. Our
intermittent code 32 went away. We had no problems with stalling at idle.
I suspect this is more likely a dirty throttle body, air intake servo or
throttle position sensor, but could also be due to other sensors as well.

Sorry this did not solve your problem, but you may have avoided a code 32
down the road..

Bob

"Richard" > wrote in message
news
> I was putting off the cleaning job until next weekend, but today my car
> stalled every time it got to normal running temp (usually 1/4 way up on
the
> guage). It would start fine if I let it cool off for 15 or more minutes,
but
> as soon as it got to normal running temp, it died again. Between pushing
the
> car and repeated re-starts, I finally got it home and went to work on it
....
>
> I got the EGR off, but really couldn't see where to clean it. All it has
is
> one hole, and a thing that looks like a torx head screw that works up and
> down when you push it. I think it is the linear valve, and it appears that
> it and the solenoid are one piece. I couldn't see a way to separate them,
> and I really couldn't get inside it. But I sprayed it with Valvoline
> SynPower Carb Choke and Trottle Body Cleaner, scrubbed what I could of it,
> and worked the one piece up and down. I put in a new gasket, too.
>
> The car started fine. I let it sit until it was warm and it stalled.
>
> Saturn wants $155 for a new part.
>
> Before I go get a new part, is it certain that this dieing at normal
> operating temp relates to that valve?
>
> I did replace the air filter and checked one of the plugs. The plug looked
> fine.
> BTW - I ran a bottle of carb/injector cleaner through the tank a week
before
> this all started with the SES and the code 32.
>
> -- Richard

Today's stalling didn't even happen at idle. It happened while driving in
4th, revved up around 2500.

AutoZone has the part for $129. I think I'll go get it tonight. Maybe I'll
spray the TB too, per can instructions.

Thanks alot everyone for all of the advice! (and wish me luck)

"Bob Shuman" > wrote in message
...
> yes, as I recall the EGR was primarily accessible from the one exhaust
> manifold opening. If it was clogged, then you would have known it because
> the linear valve you mention would have not operated smoothly. When I
> gently tapped the unit on my concrete garage floor, a lot of carbon fell
> out. I used a small flat blade screwdriver to scrape it out and then
> polished it afterward with my dremmel tool and a small brush attachment.
> After I got all/most of the deposits out, I then as a final step cleaned
it
> with TB cleaner, a toothbrush and a clean rag. When done, the valve
> operated like new again so I reinstalled with a new gasket. Our
> intermittent code 32 went away. We had no problems with stalling at
idle.
> I suspect this is more likely a dirty throttle body, air intake servo or
> throttle position sensor, but could also be due to other sensors as well.
>
> Sorry this did not solve your problem, but you may have avoided a code 32
> down the road..
>
> Bob
>
> "Richard" > wrote in message
> news
> > I was putting off the cleaning job until next weekend, but today my car
> > stalled every time it got to normal running temp (usually 1/4 way up on
> the
> > guage). It would start fine if I let it cool off for 15 or more minutes,
> but
> > as soon as it got to normal running temp, it died again. Between pushing
> the
> > car and repeated re-starts, I finally got it home and went to work on it
> ...
> >
> > I got the EGR off, but really couldn't see where to clean it. All it has
> is
> > one hole, and a thing that looks like a torx head screw that works up
and
> > down when you push it. I think it is the linear valve, and it appears
that
> > it and the solenoid are one piece. I couldn't see a way to separate
them,
> > and I really couldn't get inside it. But I sprayed it with Valvoline
> > SynPower Carb Choke and Trottle Body Cleaner, scrubbed what I could of
it,
> > and worked the one piece up and down. I put in a new gasket, too.
> >
> > The car started fine. I let it sit until it was warm and it stalled.
> >
> > Saturn wants $155 for a new part.
> >
> > Before I go get a new part, is it certain that this dieing at normal
> > operating temp relates to that valve?
> >
> > I did replace the air filter and checked one of the plugs. The plug
looked
> > fine.
> > BTW - I ran a bottle of carb/injector cleaner through the tank a week
> before
> > this all started with the SES and the code 32.
> >
> > -- Richard
>
>