134a Refrigerant

jeff wrote:

> (SNIP) and induced dipole-dipole attraction.
>

HEY NOW!! This is family channel!!

--
__________________________________________________ _________
tw

71 Bill Stroppe Baja Bronco
03 TJ Rubicon - Rubicon Express 4.5"
01 XJ Sport

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
-- Dave Barry

Pronunciation: 'jEp
Function: noun
Date: 1940

Etymology: from g. p. (G= 'Government' P= '80 inch wheelbase')
A small general-purpose motor vehicle with 80-inch wheelbase,
1/4-ton capacity, and four-wheel drive used by the U.S. army in
World War II.

(Please remove the OBVIOUS to reply by email)
__________________________________________________ _________

Geez Jeff, make a simple search of internet before you make another
stupid statement:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...oogle+S earch
"Or tell them "Miscibility of water and alcohol has nothing to do with
density"
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
http://www.billhughes.com/

jeff wrote:
>
> Were you born this stupid, or did you have to take lessons at it later
> in life???? Miscibility of water and alcohol has nothing to do with
> "density" and likewise nothing to do with molecule size. BTW, three
> component phase diagrams are pretty cool things with some nice saddles
> and inflections where the miscibility gaps are. This miscibility gap is
> why there is only a certain amount of water that can be absorbed by dry
> gas, even though alcohol and gasoline are fully miscible, and water and
> alcohol are fully miscible.
>
> --
> jeff

Sometimes we have to trick some of these jerks into looking up a
word, so maybe they will learn something and stop just being bleeding
heart liberal sucking off our society's tax payers.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&i...=Google+Search
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
http://www.billhughes.com/

thomas wrote:
>
> jeff wrote:
>
> > (SNIP) and induced dipole-dipole attraction.
> >
>
> HEY NOW!! This is family channel!!
>
> --
> __________________________________________________ _________
> tw
>
> 71 Bill Stroppe Baja Bronco
> 03 TJ Rubicon - Rubicon Express 4.5"
> 01 XJ Sport
>
> There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
> -- Dave Barry
>
> Pronunciation: 'jEp
> Function: noun
> Date: 1940
>
> Etymology: from g. p. (G= 'Government' P= '80 inch wheelbase')
> A small general-purpose motor vehicle with 80-inch wheelbase,
> 1/4-ton capacity, and four-wheel drive used by the U.S. army in
> World War II.
>
> (Please remove the OBVIOUS to reply by email)
> __________________________________________________ _________

Bill: the only one making stupid statements here is you. The original
question was why does a mixture water and alcohol occupy less volume
than the sum of the original two volumes. Your one word answer was
"density". By definition, if it has less volume it has a greater
specific gravity, or "density", but this does not answer the question
which was *WHY*. BillyRay's answer about molecules fitting together
closer is correct as far as it goes, but that does not address the why
or how of this closer packing. Miscibility, or the ability to form a
single phase solution is still my answer.

--
jeff




L.W.(ßill) Hughes III wrote:
> Geez Jeff, make a simple search of internet before you make another
> stupid statement:
> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...oogle+S earch
> "Or tell them "Miscibility of water and alcohol has nothing to do with
> density"
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> http://www.billhughes.com/
>
> jeff wrote:
>
>>Were you born this stupid, or did you have to take lessons at it later
>>in life???? Miscibility of water and alcohol has nothing to do with
>>"density" and likewise nothing to do with molecule size. BTW, three
>>component phase diagrams are pretty cool things with some nice saddles
>>and inflections where the miscibility gaps are. This miscibility gap is
>>why there is only a certain amount of water that can be absorbed by dry
>>gas, even though alcohol and gasoline are fully miscible, and water and
>>alcohol are fully miscible.
>>
>>--
>>jeff

Jeff????????????
Again the smaller volume was formed by density as this site calls
it, as when condensation forms a drop of water from hydrogen and oxygen:
http://www.nima.co.uk/basics/basics1.htm "density ~1000 times that of
the gas phase."
Can you find the word "denser" in the deification of "condensation"
used commonly to describe a mixing change, usually via temperature
change.
Pronunciation: "kän-"den-'sA-sh&n, -d&n-
Function: noun
1 : the act or process of condensing : as a : a chemical
reaction involving union between molecules often with
elimination of a simple molecule (as water) to form a new
more complex compound of often greater molecular weight b :
the conversion of a substance (as water) from the vapor state
to a denser liquid or solid state usually initiated by a reduction
in temperature of the vapor c : compression of a written or
spoken work into more concise form
Maybe, this is some Freudian thing you have with the word dense?
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
http://www.billhughes.com/

jeff wrote:
>
> Bill: the only one making stupid statements here is you. The original
> question was why does a mixture water and alcohol occupy less volume
> than the sum of the original two volumes. Your one word answer was
> "density". By definition, if it has less volume it has a greater
> specific gravity, or "density", but this does not answer the question
> which was *WHY*. BillyRay's answer about molecules fitting together
> closer is correct as far as it goes, but that does not address the why
> or how of this closer packing. Miscibility, or the ability to form a
> single phase solution is still my answer.
>
> --
> jeff

Bill,

Sometimes you say things that just don't make sense. "Bleeding heart
liberals" are some of the country's biggest tax payers. I would be paying
taxes too, if the stock market hadn't gone in the tank, coincidentally with
GWB's election.

Earle

"L.W. (ßill) Hughes III" > wrote in message
...
> Sometimes we have to trick some of these jerks into looking up a
> word, so maybe they will learn something and stop just being bleeding
> heart liberal sucking off our society's tax payers.
>
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&i...dipole-dipole+
attraction%22&btnG=Google+Search
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> http://www.billhughes.com/
>
> thomas wrote:
> >
> > jeff wrote:
> >
> > > (SNIP) and induced dipole-dipole attraction.
> > >
> >
> > HEY NOW!! This is family channel!!
> >
> > --
> > __________________________________________________ _________
> > tw
> >
> > 71 Bill Stroppe Baja Bronco
> > 03 TJ Rubicon - Rubicon Express 4.5"
> > 01 XJ Sport
> >
> > There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
> > -- Dave Barry
> >
> > Pronunciation: 'jEp
> > Function: noun
> > Date: 1940
> >
> > Etymology: from g. p. (G= 'Government' P= '80 inch wheelbase')
> > A small general-purpose motor vehicle with 80-inch wheelbase,
> > 1/4-ton capacity, and four-wheel drive used by the U.S. army in
> > World War II.
> >
> > (Please remove the OBVIOUS to reply by email)
> > __________________________________________________ _________

Hi Earle,
That's your opinion and I respect it. But I have been an owner of
businesses, and my Brother still is in it at:
http://www.hughescircuits.com/ and your W-2 from Mickeysoft don't hold a
candle to them. Look at them (liberals) they're all working for the
government. Not a one of them makes a product.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
http://www.billhughes.com/

Earle Horton wrote:
>
> Bill,
>
> Sometimes you say things that just don't make sense. "Bleeding heart
> liberals" are some of the country's biggest tax payers. I would be paying
> taxes too, if the stock market hadn't gone in the tank, coincidentally with
> GWB's election.
>
> Earle

The M-W.com definition you clipped gives two definitions for
condensation The first is for processes like making condensed soup. The
second is for what we classicly think of as condensation, that is the
phase change of matter from one state to another, e.g. steam to water.
Again, refering back to the original question, this yet another
description of what has happened. You keep addressing the what, and not
the why. Care to try your hand and Google up why it happens?

BTW, if you want to quibble a fine point, the mass that results from
mixing water and alcohol is less than the sum of the masses since the
reaction is exothermic and everyone knows that E-MC^2 ;-)

--
jeff


L.W.(ßill) Hughes III wrote:
> Jeff????????????
> Again the smaller volume was formed by density as this site calls
> it, as when condensation forms a drop of water from hydrogen and oxygen:
> http://www.nima.co.uk/basics/basics1.htm "density ~1000 times that of
> the gas phase."
> Can you find the word "denser" in the deification of "condensation"
> used commonly to describe a mixing change, usually via temperature
> change.
> Pronunciation: "kän-"den-'sA-sh&n, -d&n-
> Function: noun
> 1 : the act or process of condensing : as a : a chemical
> reaction involving union between molecules often with
> elimination of a simple molecule (as water) to form a new
> more complex compound of often greater molecular weight b :
> the conversion of a substance (as water) from the vapor state
> to a denser liquid or solid state usually initiated by a reduction
> in temperature of the vapor c : compression of a written or
> spoken work into more concise form
> Maybe, this is some Freudian thing you have with the word dense?
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O

"Nathan W. Collier" > wrote in message =
...
> "Stephen Cowell" > wrote in message=20
> . ..
> > Heavier than the components summed individually?
>=20
> no, but as hard as you try to spin i just wont let you. the =
individual=20
> weights dont matter until the compound is broken down. refrigerant is =

> heavier than cholorine which is heavier than air making it even harder =
for=20
> refrigerant to reach the ozone than chlorine (although it would be =
dissolved=20
> by the sunlight much in the same way you have to keep adding chlorine =
to a=20
> pool).

The hard truth is, CFCs have been found in the
stratosphere. The math has been done. The=20
graphs are there... going up, then slowing after
CFC use was discontinued. You can fish
red herrings all day, as long as you want...
but the evidence is there.

http://www.ozonelayer.noaa.gov/science/o3depletion.htm

Now, certainly with Repubs in power, this kind of
misinformation couldn't exist, were you right!
=20
> > 2 is not heavier than 1+1... that's the point.
>=20
> TRANSLATION --> "im wrong so ill spin a herring"

Lame.

=20
> > the combined components are not heavier
> > than the original components.
>=20
> the combined components are heavier than the individual components=20
> individually thus making it even harder for refrigerant to reach the =
ozone=20
> layer. a layer of refrigerant would settle below layers of the =
individual=20
> elements that make it up.

Why doesn't this happen to the atmosphere in general?
Why are we not drowning in Argon? Because there's
only 1% Argon? That's enough to kill us all! How
many percent Freon is there in the atmosphere?
Why does Argon mix and Freon not?
__
Steve
..

"Matt Macchiarolo" > wrote in message =
...
>=20
> "Stephen Cowell" > wrote in message=20
> . ..
>=20
>=20
> 2 is not heavier than 1+1... that's the point.
>=20
> Never claimed it to be, I asked my question using a "per unit volume" =
frame=20
> of reference. The correct answer to my question is "not always."

Here's what you wrote:
> Nathan, quick question...if you mix two compounds, the sum of the two
> compounds by definition would be heavier

The mix of the two components would *not* be
heavier than the individual components weights
summed.
__
Steve
..