[Hardware] Things *not* to do on the day before pay day...

7900 GS here... my computer might die.

I wonder if I can use my TV (that I have hooked up anyway) for a third
monitor? Might allow me to not need a new video card right away... Did
you try that?

(Tim Wheatley) wrote:

> I wonder if I can use my TV (that I have hooked up anyway) for a
> third monitor?

No idea, and I'm not dragging my 28" CRT across the room to find out. :-)
The 7900GS might be a limitation anyway... though I seem to remember it
was a pretty fast card until the 8800 series came along, and it's
surprising how much wasted potential a lot of video cards have when it
comes to sheer pixel-pushing volume.

Three screens certainly makes a difference to the video card though.
Today my impulse-bought TH2Go arrived and some quick testing with a 17"
LCD, 19"CRT and an ancient 17" CRT showed this is quite an experience,
even if frame rates are knocked back.

Where I really noticed the immersive 'depths' was when hitting curbs or
going off, when the shaking of the car really hits you because of the FOV.
Racing three wide at Talladega in N2003 is also an experience and a half.
I'm not a huge oval fan, but those big tracks always gave me a bit of a
thrill, and when you can see the cars beside you once they get close to
level, it's quite an experience.

So is crashing. When I inevitably screwed up, the huge FOV makes being in
a mass Nascar wrecking rather scary! Spinning cars and smoke all over the
place on three screens is an awful lot of wreck to take in.

Frame rates in N2003 and GTR Evo were certainly fine at 3072x768, even
with plenty of other cars in front, though when I tried Lomac (flight sim)
things were less impressive. However that was always going to be a tough
test... that thing can still stress a single screen. I didn't have time
for much else, and my desk's a bit cramped for the CRTs to all line up.
But as 'proof of concept' it worked.

Now I just have the expensive part to think about... vid card & monitors.
The only 'good' news is that there are quite a few decent 19" 1280x1024
monitors with a power consumption of about 40W. At the moment my CRT + 17"
(which I've used on the games box for a while for movie editing) pulls
about 160W. Three new, matched screens would be cheaper to run, helping
make up for the inevitable increase in vid card power... if I ever decide
what to 'invest' in.

Anyway, I'm thinking out loud now. In an ideal world I'd prefer a single,
very widescreen monitor. But as there's no such thing (apart from those
silly budget concepts) this looks like the only sensible option.

Did I say sensible?

Andrew McP

On Sep 2, 3:41*pm, (Andrew
MacPherson) wrote:
> (Tim Wheatley) wrote:
> > I wonder if I can use my TV (that I have hooked up anyway) for a
> > third monitor?
>
> No idea, and I'm not dragging my 28" CRT across the room to find out. :-)
> The 7900GS might be a limitation anyway... though I seem to remember it
> was a pretty fast card until the 8800 series came along, and it's
> surprising how much wasted potential a lot of video cards have when it
> comes to sheer pixel-pushing volume.
>
> Three screens certainly makes a difference to the video card though.
> Today my impulse-bought TH2Go arrived and some quick testing with a 17"
> LCD, 19"CRT and an ancient 17" CRT showed this is quite an experience,
> even if frame rates are knocked back.
>
> Where I really noticed the immersive 'depths' was when hitting curbs or
> going off, when the shaking of the car really hits you because of the FOV..
> Racing three wide at Talladega in N2003 is also an experience and a half.
> I'm not a huge oval fan, but those big tracks always gave me a bit of a
> thrill, and when you can see the cars beside you once they get close to
> level, it's quite an experience.
>
> So is crashing. When I inevitably screwed up, the huge FOV makes being in
> a mass Nascar wrecking rather scary! Spinning cars and smoke all over the
> place on three screens is an awful lot of wreck to take in.
>
> Frame rates in N2003 and GTR Evo were certainly fine at 3072x768, even
> with plenty of other cars in front, though when I tried Lomac (flight sim)
> things were less impressive. However that was always going to be a tough
> test... that thing can still stress a single screen. I didn't have time
> for much else, and my desk's a bit cramped for the CRTs to all line up.
> But as 'proof of concept' it worked.
>
> Now I just have the expensive part to think about... vid card & monitors.
> The only 'good' news is that there are quite a few decent 19" 1280x1024
> monitors with a power consumption of about 40W. At the moment my CRT + 17"
> (which I've used on the games box for a while for movie editing) pulls
> about 160W. Three new, matched screens would be cheaper to run, helping
> make up for the inevitable increase in vid card power... if I ever decide
> what to 'invest' in.
>
> Anyway, I'm thinking out loud now. In an ideal world I'd prefer a single,
> very widescreen monitor. But as there's no such thing (apart from those
> silly budget concepts) this looks like the only sensible option.
>
> Did I say sensible?
>
> Andrew McP

It works! If you have two DVI/VGA outputs and 1 TV output you can use
those three to give yourself a cheap triple screen. I never would have
given that a shot if not for you, thanks! It's an awesome level of
visibility...

some quick testing with a 17"
> LCD, 19"CRT and an ancient 17" CRT showed this is quite an experience,

Now you got me thinking, I have 2 19" CRT's in the basement and am using a
22" LCD I just got. Newegg has a 8800GT for $120. When the Wife starts
hollering I'll just blame you
Don

(Tim Wheatley) wrote:

> It's an awesome level of visibility...

It has to be seen to be believed, doesn't it. I suppose I knew all along
that it would do, but I deliberately ignored talk and reviews about it.
Too expensive. Too much hassle, desk space, and worry about additional
things to go wrong (generally in life I prefer a minimalist approach with
reduced maintenance and replacement costs). But this time... well, the
two screen experiment, which so many people can do easily now, showed me
a whole new world of immersion. It is like night and night compared to
the average widescreen-lite monitor.

Andrew McP

PS It occurs to me that the wonderful Dell 1600x1200 I use on this PC for
desktop use has various video-in orifices. My 8800GTS has a composite
video out, so I may well just have wasted 226ukp on the triplehead! Still,
what's new? :-)

PPS Great suggestion by the way. I'm sure it'll be useful to others, and
I'm surprised and impressed that it works in the first place!

(Don Schwartz Jr) wrote:

> Newegg has a 8800GT for $120.

I really regret not getting an SLI motherboard now. Two 8800GTs would be
a great bang for buck, and a low power solution to my needs now. However
when I upgraded I thought SLI was for idiots.

It turns out I was right. :-)

There are more powerful single slot solutions, but they tend to draw a
more power than 2 x 8800GT. And I think the 8800GT is going to be a great
card to have in the spares box in years to come.

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3341&p=22

Whether one will drive three monitors properly in all games/sims is open
to question. I'm certainly impressed by my solo, somewhat slower, GTS's
abilities so far. But I haven't tested properly, and I'm sure it'll be
pushed to the limits by most things, especially when antialiasing comes
into the equation. Having said that, it's useful to bring a bit of common
sense to bear.

3072x768 (3x1024x768) = 2,359,296 pixels

1680x1050 = 1,764,000 pixels and used in the article above's benchmarks,
like this...

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3341&p=13

Divide those numbers by about 1.34 and you've got the kind of frame rates
you could expect from the three screen equivalent. Ok, it's at lower res,
but never mind the quality, feel the width! :-) And higher (or lower)
ultra-widescreen resolutions are still an option.

It's definitely an area worth investigating IMO Don. But I cannot be
responsible for your back carrying those monitors back up from the
basement, or for your wife's mood for the next decade when she loses you
behind a bank of monitors. :-)

Andrew McP

Andrew...

ISTR that some bright spark tried this multi screen malarkey a few years
ago...

They had three monitors connected, and they were running GPL (a real
sim, from the good ole days, none of your namby pamby modern soft
southern sh*te, rubber bumpered type sim thingies....)

Anyway, they had the main GPL in car view on the centre screen, and they
had some small program apparently which allowed the side views to be
permanently selected, and had the left side view on the left monitor and
the right side view on the right monitor.....! Must have looked awesome....

8-)

After some more detailed testing of the Matrox Triplehead I'm finding a
disadvantage over the 2 screen experiment. With the latter the Nvidia
drivers allowed me to run my 19" CRT @ 1280x1024x85Hz, and the 17" LCD at
its usual 60Hz. The result was no nasty flickering and a genuinely
enjoyable experience.

So far though I've found no similar way of altering the Triplehead's
settings. As we all probably agree, 60Hz for a CRT is fairly unpleasant,
and with a 19" flicker on one side, and a 17" flicker on the other, it's
a little uncomfortable after a while. There may be a motion sickness
factor as well, I'm not sure. But I didn't have anything like that with
the 2 screen experiment, so I'm sure it's the flicker. It's more obvious
from the corner of your eye anyway.

On the positive side, I've bought two versions of the TrackIR over the
years, and both disappointed me. Using glance left & right buttons
without trackIR always disorientates me, and the trackIR was no better
for me, despite trying to get used to it. However the totally natural
ability to glance left & right with the three-screen solution is
completely different. I also find that if I *do* use the glance left &
right buttons to look even further around, the disorientation is far less
than before because I can still see the front of the car properly,
towards the edge of the 3-screen setup.

Anyway, that's all for now. I just thought I'd make a few notes which
might be useful for anyone else watching the thread. Tomorrow I have a
day off and hope to explore the flicker issue further. At the moment I'm
happy enough with the CRT solution to put off new monitors until I find
some bargains... but only if the flicker issue can be solved.

Andrew McP

PS Another disadvantage of ultra-widescreen. While running EVO this
morning I found myself looking out of the left window at the scenery in
the distance. This can't be healthy. :-)

(pjgtech) wrote:

> Anyway, they had the main GPL in car view on the centre screen, and
> they had some small program apparently which allowed the side views
> to be permanently selected

I think that was a 3-PC solution, wasn't it? Anyway, you're right, it is
awesome. :-) As I said before, I encourage everyone to try the 2 screen
experiment if they can. It gives you a very good idea of what it's like.

Andrew McP

Andrew MacPherson wrote:
> (pjgtech) wrote:
>
>> Anyway, they had the main GPL in car view on the centre screen, and
>> they had some small program apparently which allowed the side views
>> to be permanently selected


> I think that was a 3-PC solution, wasn't it?

That was probably me and yes it was

I am using a TH2go now also with one LCD and 2 CRTs but I don't notice
the 60Hz issue. I do find though that running without vsync doesn't feel
very smooth even though the fps counter is way over 60.

Cheers
Tony