Diagnosing inoperative power window

On Fri, 6 Jul 2007 13:14:43 -0400, "maxpower" >
wrote:

>
>"philthy" > wrote in message
...
>> if you have a test lite unplug the motor connector and stick each end of
>> the lite on each wire of the harness side of the motor connector and then
>> run the switch up and down
>> if the lite lites up on both throws of the switch then the rest of the
>> circuit is good and there is a good chance the motor is bad
>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > The right front window on my 1998 Stratus no longer works.
>> >
>> > Is there a way to apply power directly to the motor to determine if it
>> > still works?
>> >
>> > Would a battery charger provide enough current to run the motor, or
>> > would I need an automobile battery to connect to the motor?
>> >
>> > Also, if it is a problem with the glass being stuck, is there a safe
>> > way to free it.
>> >
>> > If it is the motor, I would think that the driver's side would fail
>> > first, as it gets the most use.
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> >
>> > Kirk Matheson
>>
>Partly true but you still need a ground. Normally when a switch goes out the
>ground is lost. So you will still have 12volts on both up and down circuits
>
>Glenn
>

I believe he's talking about using the test light to replace the motor
in the circuit. In this case, if the light illuminates with the switch
in both the up and down position, you have verified a functioning
circuit.

> wrote in message
ups.com...
> On Jul 6, 11:14 am, "maxpower" > wrote:
> > "philthy" > wrote in message
> >
> > ...
> >
> >
> >
> > > if you have a test lite unplug the motor connector and stick each end
of
> > > the lite on each wire of the harness side of the motor connector and
then
> > > run the switch up and down
> > > if the lite lites up on both throws of the switch then the rest of
the
> > > circuit is good and there is a good chance the motor is bad
> >
> > > wrote:
> >
> > > > The right front window on my 1998 Stratus no longer works.
> >
> > > > Is there a way to apply power directly to the motor to determine if
it
> > > > still works?
> >
> > > > Would a battery charger provide enough current to run the motor, or
> > > > would I need an automobile battery to connect to the motor?
> >
> > > > Also, if it is a problem with the glass being stuck, is there a safe
> > > > way to free it.
> >
> > > > If it is the motor, I would think that the driver's side would fail
> > > > first, as it gets the most use.
> >
> > > > Thanks,
> >
> > > > Kirk Matheson
> >
> > Partly true but you still need a ground. Normally when a switch goes out
the
> > ground is lost. So you will still have 12volts on both up and down
circuits
> >
> > Glenn- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> The dome light does not dim when attempting to lower the window. Does
> that mean a bad motor, or a faulty connection?
>
> Guess it's time to see if I have power at the motor connections.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kirk M.
>
You have to look really close to the dome lite, it doesn't really mater. try
to slam it at the same time holding down the switch with the key on. If it
doesn't free up then yes you will have to remove the door panel to check for
12volts and ground. Normally the regulator assembly is at fault.

Glenn

bllsht wrote:

> I believe he's talking about using the test light to replace the motor
> in the circuit. In this case, if the light illuminates with the switch
> in both the up and down position, you have verified a functioning
> circuit.

That works *IF* the problem is not a relatively high resistance contact
in the connectors or switches - IOW a slightly high resistance in the
circuit may light the test light yet provide diminished power to the
motor to the point that the motor can't overcome the stiction that an
otherwise good circuit and motor could overcome and operate normally.

But probably a weak motor (due to the conatminated brush scenario I
described would be more likely).

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

it's a reverse polarity circuit meaning the ground in the circuit flips when the
switch is operated in either direction so you tested the whole circuit in a
matter of seconds and the only exception to that is p.w.m

maxpower wrote:

> "philthy" > wrote in message
> ...
> > if you have a test lite unplug the motor connector and stick each end of
> > the lite on each wire of the harness side of the motor connector and then
> > run the switch up and down
> > if the lite lites up on both throws of the switch then the rest of the
> > circuit is good and there is a good chance the motor is bad
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > The right front window on my 1998 Stratus no longer works.
> > >
> > > Is there a way to apply power directly to the motor to determine if it
> > > still works?
> > >
> > > Would a battery charger provide enough current to run the motor, or
> > > would I need an automobile battery to connect to the motor?
> > >
> > > Also, if it is a problem with the glass being stuck, is there a safe
> > > way to free it.
> > >
> > > If it is the motor, I would think that the driver's side would fail
> > > first, as it gets the most use.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Kirk Matheson
> >
> Partly true but you still need a ground. Normally when a switch goes out the
> ground is lost. So you will still have 12volts on both up and down circuits
>
> Glenn

if it is the test lite will have a glow instead of a lite a noticeable
voltage drop

Bill Putney wrote:

> bllsht wrote:
>
> > I believe he's talking about using the test light to replace the motor
> > in the circuit. In this case, if the light illuminates with the switch
> > in both the up and down position, you have verified a functioning
> > circuit.
>
> That works *IF* the problem is not a relatively high resistance contact
> in the connectors or switches - IOW a slightly high resistance in the
> circuit may light the test light yet provide diminished power to the
> motor to the point that the motor can't overcome the stiction that an
> otherwise good circuit and motor could overcome and operate normally.
>
> But probably a weak motor (due to the conatminated brush scenario I
> described would be more likely).
>
> Bill Putney
> (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
> address with the letter 'x')

philthy wrote:

> if it is the test lite will have a glow instead of a lite a noticeable
> voltage drop

I submit that the load presented by the test lite is small enough that
you may not notice the decreased brightness by a slight resistance in
the system, yet, by ohm's law, that same slight resistance in that
system may cause a significant voltage drop when the much larger load of
the motor is put on it - i.e,. brightness loss of the test lite will be
unniticeable, but the motor torque loss will be enough to prevent it
from overcoming normal stiction (again - due to the much higher load
represented by the motor vs. the test lite).


> Bill Putney wrote:
>
>
>>bllsht wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I believe he's talking about using the test light to replace the motor
>>>in the circuit. In this case, if the light illuminates with the switch
>>>in both the up and down position, you have verified a functioning
>>>circuit.
>>
>>That works *IF* the problem is not a relatively high resistance contact
>>in the connectors or switches - IOW a slightly high resistance in the
>>circuit may light the test light yet provide diminished power to the
>>motor to the point that the motor can't overcome the stiction that an
>>otherwise good circuit and motor could overcome and operate normally.
>>
>>But probably a weak motor (due to the conatminated brush scenario I
>>described would be more likely).
>>
>>Bill Putney
>>(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
>>address with the letter 'x')
>
>


--
Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

"Bill Putney" > wrote in message
...
> bllsht wrote:
>
> > I believe he's talking about using the test light to replace the motor
> > in the circuit. In this case, if the light illuminates with the switch
> > in both the up and down position, you have verified a functioning
> > circuit.
>
> That works *IF* the problem is not a relatively high resistance contact
> in the connectors or switches - IOW a slightly high resistance in the
> circuit may light the test light yet provide diminished power to the
> motor to the point that the motor can't overcome the stiction that an
> otherwise good circuit and motor could overcome and operate normally.
>
> But probably a weak motor (due to the conatminated brush scenario I
> described would be more likely).
>
> Bill Putney
> (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
> address with the letter 'x')

I was referring to the dome lite in the vehicle, The LH has had problems for
many years with the weather strips causing the glass to stick and not
allowing the window to lower. There has been a TSB out to install new
updated weather strips to prevent this from happening or some year vehicles
OR simply keep the glass top edge cleaned. Normally if the dome lite dims
when the window is trying to open it normally means the glass is stuck at
the top and slamming the door as the switch is in the open position will
cause the glass to lower. Then clean the top of the door glass.

Glenn

maxpower wrote:
> "Bill Putney" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>bllsht wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I believe he's talking about using the test light to replace the motor
>>>in the circuit. In this case, if the light illuminates with the switch
>>>in both the up and down position, you have verified a functioning
>>>circuit.
>>
>>That works *IF* the problem is not a relatively high resistance contact
>>in the connectors or switches - IOW a slightly high resistance in the
>>circuit may light the test light yet provide diminished power to the
>>motor to the point that the motor can't overcome the stiction that an
>>otherwise good circuit and motor could overcome and operate normally.
>>
>>But probably a weak motor (due to the conatminated brush scenario I
>>described would be more likely).
>>
>>Bill Putney
>>(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
>>address with the letter 'x')
>
>
> I was referring to the dome lite in the vehicle, The LH has had problems for
> many years with the weather strips causing the glass to stick and not
> allowing the window to lower. There has been a TSB out to install new
> updated weather strips to prevent this from happening or some year vehicles
> OR simply keep the glass top edge cleaned. Normally if the dome lite dims
> when the window is trying to open it normally means the glass is stuck at
> the top and slamming the door as the switch is in the open position will
> cause the glass to lower. Then clean the top of the door glass.
>
> Glenn

Makes sense. I have read on the 300M forums of that problem being
resolved by replacing the widow motor where cleaning the molding and
glass did not solve it. So on a given car, it could be a combination of
sticking molding with a weak motor or just one or the other.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

maxpower wrote:
> "Bill Putney" > wrote in message
> ...
>> bllsht wrote:
>>
>>> I believe he's talking about using the test light to replace the motor
>>> in the circuit. In this case, if the light illuminates with the switch
>>> in both the up and down position, you have verified a functioning
>>> circuit.
>> That works *IF* the problem is not a relatively high resistance contact
>> in the connectors or switches - IOW a slightly high resistance in the
>> circuit may light the test light yet provide diminished power to the
>> motor to the point that the motor can't overcome the stiction that an
>> otherwise good circuit and motor could overcome and operate normally.
>>
>> But probably a weak motor (due to the conatminated brush scenario I
>> described would be more likely).
>>
>> Bill Putney
>> (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
>> address with the letter 'x')
>
> I was referring to the dome lite in the vehicle, The LH has had problems for
> many years with the weather strips causing the glass to stick and not
> allowing the window to lower. There has been a TSB out to install new
> updated weather strips to prevent this from happening or some year vehicles
> OR simply keep the glass top edge cleaned. Normally if the dome lite dims
> when the window is trying to open it normally means the glass is stuck at
> the top and slamming the door as the switch is in the open position will
> cause the glass to lower. Then clean the top of the door glass.
>
> Glenn

Hi...

Add to that the fact that for those of us who live in the
terrible terrible cold winters (Winnipeg in my case) that little
door slamming while holding the button trick releases them when
they're frozen shut

Take care.

Ken

"Bill Putney" > wrote in message
...
> maxpower wrote:
> > "Bill Putney" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >>bllsht wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>I believe he's talking about using the test light to replace the motor
> >>>in the circuit. In this case, if the light illuminates with the switch
> >>>in both the up and down position, you have verified a functioning
> >>>circuit.
> >>
> >>That works *IF* the problem is not a relatively high resistance contact
> >>in the connectors or switches - IOW a slightly high resistance in the
> >>circuit may light the test light yet provide diminished power to the
> >>motor to the point that the motor can't overcome the stiction that an
> >>otherwise good circuit and motor could overcome and operate normally.
> >>
> >>But probably a weak motor (due to the conatminated brush scenario I
> >>described would be more likely).
> >>
> >>Bill Putney
> >>(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
> >>address with the letter 'x')
> >
> >
> > I was referring to the dome lite in the vehicle, The LH has had problems
for
> > many years with the weather strips causing the glass to stick and not
> > allowing the window to lower. There has been a TSB out to install new
> > updated weather strips to prevent this from happening or some year
vehicles
> > OR simply keep the glass top edge cleaned. Normally if the dome lite
dims
> > when the window is trying to open it normally means the glass is stuck
at
> > the top and slamming the door as the switch is in the open position will
> > cause the glass to lower. Then clean the top of the door glass.
> >
> > Glenn
>
> Makes sense. I have read on the 300M forums of that problem being
> resolved by replacing the widow motor where cleaning the molding and
> glass did not solve it. So on a given car, it could be a combination of
> sticking molding with a weak motor or just one or the other.
>
> Bill Putney
> (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
> address with the letter 'x')

In my opinion the window motors have been built very cheap since 1996. I
have replaced some weather strips that did not fix the problem and then had
to go back and replace the regulator assemblies.

Glenn